Picture, details of toe/camber correction subframes

[ian332isport]

yeah yeah, dont get me wrong, i understand how it works, but im sayin the pic Ian posted of the beam, has the tabs welded on wrong to achieve the desired result

Aaah, I see what you're saying now. You are looking at the slot the head of the eccentric bolt slides in, not the slot the bolt itself slides in. They are at 90 degrees to each other.

If you look at the slot the bolt physically passes through, you will see the inner bolts go up and down, and the outer bolts go forward and back. It's hard to visualise what the eccentric bolt does when you turn it, but when it's in front of you, it's very simple.

Ian.

[superclarkey]

yeah, its like a cam.

[Jhonno]

I am there now..

Dont worry, managed to confuse myself with how the pic was taken. Cheers guys

Cant believe even Dave got it before i did

[d6dph]

Cheek of it, Luckily I'm not quite as stupid as I look

[superclarkey]

lucky i can't see you to see how suptid that is







joke

[superclarkey]

glad you got it, i'm having a buch of these things made, so i may well offer some axles on an exchange basis for anyone interested.

Going to see how much it costs to make a few, maybe do a few with adjustable rose joint rear trailing arms, they would be worth a nice bit of money to the right person as its a full race car set up, will do all the bracing too.

going to pick up 2 axles tomorrow to mod. see how i get on like. i may find i could modify it a bit to get more. as i've found some bigger camber bolts in my parts catalog, so could redsign to give more range.

clakrey.

[Jhonno]

Cheek of it, Luckily I'm not quite as stupid as I look

god!! then we would be in trouble!!

[superclarkey]

Just did a bit of simple maths, if i do double slot in same direction for camber only, and i center the weld on plates in the center of the exsisting holes.. so it basicly has a plus and minus range... i worked out there is around 1.2degrees of adjustment.... no were near enough.

IF i weld them on, so they don't have a minus and only plus to remove camber, ie. the plates are welded on so the very start of there travel before adjustment is stock setting... i can gain nearly 3degrees of adjustment... but can't add any more camber that it has now (not that i would want to, this is why i'm surgesting this option)

i think 3 degrees of correction is min, for those that only have one side of correction, i think 1.5 degrees is as much as you'll be able to remove if that.

the other limitation is the fact that you can higher the trailing arm up away from the sumframe as much as you want, but you can't lower it that much on the otherside without hitting the subframe ect.

So now i understand why there in the kit you recived it had one side different with massive slot, totaly makes sence, because they know the adjustment is very small, this would give you nearly 2degees of neg removal, and also why the camber slots are the inside..as you can move up away from the subframe as much as you want.

In short, on the one you've made, i think your going to be suprised at how little you can remove... but if your only trying to take some out, then it will do what you want.

As you can tell, i'm after making a kit that is basicly capable of removing neg and gettig it to 0degrees... that way i have range from 0-3degree neg.

these are my aims, i may well take you up on the offer of the camber kit you have, as a i will defo need to make something like this, maybe make better camber bolt for it or something.

clarkey.

[gareth]

i've been playing with ideas for toe / camber correction lately and modelled up the geometry of the trailing arm in 3D cad.

i based the model on a 50mm drop. this gives 0.22° toe-in per wheel. and 1.8° negative camber.

the eccentric bushes (1mm offset bmw ones) can correct up to a maximum of 0.35° of camber or toe but not both to that extent.
to correct my 1.8° camber, i'd need to move one pivot point by 10.3mm

hope that helps
link to my thread: http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ic&t=68485

[superclarkey]

Yeah i basicly saw that these bolts give about 4mm +- (8mm movement over all) and as you surgested i worked out that even if i set them so they were both working on camber alone... they would not knock out more then about 2degees.

So yes the inner would need to lift by at least 8mm and the outter droped by the 4mm... that would give around what you need.

I've ordered the 20mm id rod ends for the trailing arms.

[ian332isport]

I may well take you up on the offer of the camber kit you have

No probs

[gareth]

i might just weld on a modified bracket for a set 10mm lift on the inner joint and tweak from there if necessary with the eccentric bushes...

[superclarkey]

see how you get on

either way, i've got to do the trailing arms, as i want full control over the toe in.

clarkey.

[ian332isport]

see how you get on

either way, i've got to do the trailing arms, as i want full control over the toe in.

clarkey.

I still reckon your tyre wear is camber induced. Surely that much toe in would be wearing the outside edge, not the inner ?

Saying that, you deffo have toe problems that me be causing odd handling.

Ian.

[superclarkey]

well, i kinda understand whats going as i own a R32 skyline too, with adjustable rear arms... i've played about with set up quite a bit and i know what wears tyres.. camber wears tyres if skidding... but you can run loads of camber with 0 toe with nearly no wear at all.

but if you run like .7degrees neg and 1 degree of toe in... the were is silly.

and i am wearing the outside of the tyre too... but only when drifting hard on the lock.

Toe is the problem... thats for sure. Think about it... camber if parrell shouldn't wear... toe wears because its always scrubbing trying to narrow its track.

but i'm not dissagreeing with you, i'm just experssing my findings over the yearts of racing the skyline.

clakrey.

[superclarkey]

The other interesting thing to think about... think how much mpg you loose form toe in on the bmw... youj ever tryed to push a bmw around ?? it feels like a million tons... you push a skyline about with 0 toe all round and it rolls off into the distance on its own!

i noticed, that in the bmw regardless, i have to keep a bit of throttle on alll the time as it slows down so quickly on its own, the skyline rolls for miles and before yousasy it they are nearly the same weiht!

i bet you any money when i sort this Toe issue out, my mpg will fly up. as throttle will be less needed in a starit line.

turst me on this one

[buster]

I only fitted camber adjustment to mine,i dont think toe needs doing unless its previously crash damaged.

Heres mine,before paint:

[Karan]

Hi Ian hows things

just noticed this and i think its probably the most important thing to right on an e30 cos thats what makes the on limit handling at high speed so crap especially if ure into drifting

i also think clarkeys right with wanting to get the toe nr parallel as ive played with my s14 a lot now as the whole rear serup is adjustable with the arms i have put on it, and when i got rid os the stock toe in the change in the charcter of the car was amaaaaaaazing!!

im trying to wonder how much adjustment ure gonna get on those tabs though, do u think u could acheive parallel toe and maybe -1.5 deg camber with that much adjustment as if u could id really love to do this on mine

[Karan]

its the combination of the camber and toe that wears the tyres out i think....but i actually think the toe is the worse culprit especially when coupled with the insane camber slammed e30s have!

[ian332isport]

Karan,

I'm hoping to get all this fitted in the next week or two before a trip to the ring, so I'll report back when I've had the geometry checked/setup. I'm only looking to return things to standard (non lowered) settings, so I'm pretty sure I will have enough adjustment.

I don't have horrendous rear, inner tyre wear, but it does wear quicker than the outside. I suspect it ultimately looses a bit of grip as well, but I don't really have any handling problems I'm aware of.

It's going to be hard to say if the geometry change alone has made a difference, as I'm replacing pretty much everything on the underside of the car (bushes, bearings, pipes, hoses, fuel tank, control arms, rear brakes and just about every nut, bolt & washer as well). I'm also fitting H&R ARB's and a bunch of ARB mounting point strengthening parts. It will hopefully drive better than new when it's all fitted

Cheers,

Ian.

[Karan]

u running stock arbs at the moment ian? they will really help, and i really think ull be surprised when u set the geometry.... no more understeering e30 syndrome, losing the rear toe due to lowering really makes the front end turn in better and feel go kart like

when i put the hartge arbs on the sport they were luuuuuurvely

[superclarkey]

this is why welded diffs work on skylines and 200ssx... put one on a BMW and its wank. toe is not your friend.

as i've pointed out before... to get rid of the toe, i'm going to rose joint the trailing arms

[ian332isport]

u running stock arbs at the moment ian?

It's all stock apart from the Billies (inverted ), H&R springs, Powerflex trailing arm bushes and M3 offset control arm bushes.

I'm also fitting some adjustable camber plates (Ireland Engineering street plates) to give a bit more negative camber on the front during track days and ring visits. This will hopefully help to save the outer edges of my front tyres, although I do now have a set of track wheels (more BBS RC's), so not quite the issue it was.

I really am looking forward to see how it performs. Everything I'm doing should tighten it all up, but not upset the ride. The Z1 rear discs should help the braking as well.

Ian.

[gareth]

where is the best place to get an adjustable rear beam kit? does anyone in the uk do one?

does anyone know hom much adjustability the E39 offset bolts will achieve?

[superclarkey]

if you can wait a little bit, i'm planning on doing a few beams on a exchange bassis ready to go and poweder coated.

Going to do a few see what it costs me and let ytou guys know ;D will give the option of powerflex bushes or stock bushes pressed in too.

Just made a jig to do it, so each one will be the same no questions.

clarkey.

[superclarkey]

Just to let you guys know, i raised the car by 20mm, and the toe is about half what it was, and camber is no were near as bad.

goes to prove that a few more mm can make all the difference.

[tpg]

Hello,New on here.Can anyone confirm these part numbers for me please?All to do with this topic.They are the E39 bolts,washers and nuts.I've been given 33321095102 for the bolt.33321092310 for the washer.33326760668 on the nut.
Its threads and info like this that makes me happy to get into E30's again.For info I am doing "Another"335i conversion on an '88 converatdribble.I've broken a later 325 Tourer from someone on here for its ABS and varoius other bits and pieces.I have a 735i lent up against the side of the house looking after the engine and 'box.And its and auto...The future is Low and lazy.
Thanks.
Richard.

[Gwynne26]

Had the wheel alignment on my cab measured. Ultratyres in Amstelveen are the business as they have the right kit and check all four together. All four point in slightly different directions but the front toe in was adjusted, had been feathering the front tyres. The steering's now much more planted and firmer, and the car is a little easier to push. Not a lot better on the fuel economy, just cheaper on tyres.

[MJG]

Clarkey let me know about your subframes dude, I might want you to make one for my e30 if/when I buy it back off Nick (PS - don't nick my Spaxes from that).

It has horrible camber, and I want to lower it more when I get 5 stud and my 17x10s arrive so having camber/toe adjustment would rock it out.

I'll provide you with a subframe with trailing arms, and can come down and do the work on it myself if you let me - you can just do the welding so my trailing arms don't fall off on my way out the workshop lol.

How do you plan on fitting rosejoints btw? I've seen them on the underside of a tubular trailing-arm'd m3 before but not on standard arms.

[MJG]

Aha, like this for rosejoints then....




Found on this cool little set of photos

http://www.passracing.com/project_e30_m3.htm

[alwaysideways]

yes!!!
Talk about perfect timing. I am just about to rebuild my front AND rear suspensions, but i was thinking it would be above me to upgrade the rear geometry. thank you.
i am so happy. Tho i wont hump ya...

[superclarkey]

MJG, i thought we shared are parts of bmw's ;)

Yes just like the pictures mate, that is what i'm going to do, i think it wouldn't be that expensive to do, and it would be a fair tirck mod... as the E30 is a very good car but its very under designed weak as fuck rear axle really lets it down a fair bit, because your not going to rag it on stock suspention are ya. lo
l
clarkey.

[gareth]

a heads-up guys...

i've just got my E39 offset bolts and wierd washers from my local dealer. i got the numbers from here: please note... they're wrong!!!!! http://e30m3performance.com/installs/in ... /index.htm

the number he gives for the bolt is actually the correct number for the washer. lucky 33-32-1-092-310
the number he gives for the washer turn out to be a M10 offset bolt. incorrect!!! 33-32-1-093-456

can anyone please confirm the right numbers please? are the ones in tpg's post corrrect?

Hello,New on here.Can anyone confirm these part numbers for me please?All to do with this topic.They are the E39 bolts,washers and nuts.I've been given 33321095102 for the bolt.33321092310 for the washer.33326760668 on the nut.

i'll let the site owner know they're wrong once i have confirmation i'm not being a tit!!!!

[ian332isport]

Gareth,

Here you go:

Bolts - 33 32 1 095 102
Washers - 33 32 1 092 310
Nuts - 33 32 6 751 446

The part number above for the nut is from my ETK, but the RealOEM site lists both this number, and the one posted by tpg above. Either would work, and I suspect the 33 32 6 751 446 has been superseded by 33 32 6 760 668.

Cheers,

Ian.

[gareth]

thanks mate