but what's this?
and an M50 manifold and e34 sump? surely not?
My E28
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Sawyer_E30
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Naughty, I like it. 
Am I right in thinking you wont need to convert the sump?
Am I right in thinking you wont need to convert the sump?E30: The only E-number you should be concerned about
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Sawyer_E30
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gotcha. I thought the positioning on the sump was different on e28s and e30s? Or is e36 and e28 dramatically different?
E30: The only E-number you should be concerned about
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alan1272
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the E36 has a rear bowl on the sump, the E28 requires a front bowl.Sawyer_E30 wrote:gotcha. I thought the positioning on the sump was different on e28s and e30s? Or is e36 and e28 dramatically different?
there is a chap on forum.bmw5 who has done an m50 conversion and he used an e34 sump.
anyway, the sump is the least of my worries! need to strip the donor first!
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Sawyer_E30
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OK then. Good luck!
E30: The only E-number you should be concerned about
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anothere21323i
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Awesome project! Good luck, and make sure you keep us all updated
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alan1272
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ok, well i'm not sure where to put this build thread so i'll continue in this one for now but if any mods think it'd be more appropriate somewhere else then let me know.
After giving my rally car a bit of a refresh earlier in the year i'd vowed to stop spending so much time in the garage and more time competing with it.
this was a great plan and i've had a fun 3 months doing some rallies; then this opportunity to buy a 328i came up at a price i couldn't refuse - so back to the garage it is!
i've bought this e36 from a chap who had started to strip it with the intention of putting it in his E30 rally car. he'd got as far as removing the inlet manifold and an alarm before he'd decided to go for a vauxhall XE engine to put him in the 2-litre class. therefore i haven't heard this run, which i admit is taking a risk and is not something i'd usually do. i do trust the chap though and if he says it's good i believe him.
he also had a E34 M50 sump, pickup and dipstick and M50B25 inlet manifold, which he included in the sale.
i've never done any work on M5x engines or E36's so there's a fairly steep learning curve; but with the knowledge of the zone what can go wrong!
anyway, enough of the excuses, more pics:
EWS: i've looked at the threads in the swaps section so i think i've located all the bits i need.
ECU
controller
send/recieve module
ring antenna
key
can anyone advise me how much of the wiring to extract with the components? do i need it all or should 6 inches or so be sufficient?
i've unplugged all the engine loom from the connectors, i cant' seem to remove the fusebox, any hints?
engine liberated from the bay!
that's it for now.
After giving my rally car a bit of a refresh earlier in the year i'd vowed to stop spending so much time in the garage and more time competing with it.
this was a great plan and i've had a fun 3 months doing some rallies; then this opportunity to buy a 328i came up at a price i couldn't refuse - so back to the garage it is!
i've bought this e36 from a chap who had started to strip it with the intention of putting it in his E30 rally car. he'd got as far as removing the inlet manifold and an alarm before he'd decided to go for a vauxhall XE engine to put him in the 2-litre class. therefore i haven't heard this run, which i admit is taking a risk and is not something i'd usually do. i do trust the chap though and if he says it's good i believe him.
he also had a E34 M50 sump, pickup and dipstick and M50B25 inlet manifold, which he included in the sale.
i've never done any work on M5x engines or E36's so there's a fairly steep learning curve; but with the knowledge of the zone what can go wrong!
anyway, enough of the excuses, more pics:
EWS: i've looked at the threads in the swaps section so i think i've located all the bits i need.
ECU
controller
send/recieve module
ring antenna
key
can anyone advise me how much of the wiring to extract with the components? do i need it all or should 6 inches or so be sufficient?
i've unplugged all the engine loom from the connectors, i cant' seem to remove the fusebox, any hints?
engine liberated from the bay!
that's it for now.
The fuesbox is screwed down - it'll be obvious with the engine out and top cover removed.
That'll be a lovely conversion. As a 518i it'll have a 4.1 diff so you'll need a suitable overdrive box. A 520i/320i box would probably do the job if you avoid doing burnouts and that means you can retain your existing prop and gearchange linkage. The 320i/520i use the same basic Getrag 240 box as the 518i but with a different bellhousing bolt pattern. You could also use the bigger, stronger M20 325i box (also found in the 12v E34 525i) and that means a shorter prop. Trouble is, the props you'll be using (E28 525i and 528i) normally have the big M30 prop donut that won't fit the 325i output flange. I had this issue converting a 525e from auto to manual and ended up getting a custom prop done - E28 rear half, altered E30 325i front half and balanced up. Using the 2 litre 240 box would be a lot easier.
Alternatively, you can use the 328i gearbox and a suitable diff such as a 3.07 or 2.93 525e unit. These are both 188 casings like all other non 3.5 E28's so are a straight swap. The 535i 3.07 LSD is a big 210 casing but because yours is a post 9/84 car with the relocated diff mount on the boot floor, that will also bolt in okay. You may need to be clever regarding the prop though - bolt the engine and box in and measure from the diff flange to the gearbox output flange. You may be very lucky and find something that's a perfect fit. I'd imagine 525i E34 front exhaust and manifolds linked to a 528i/535i rear system will do the job with a few mods.
That'll be a lovely conversion. As a 518i it'll have a 4.1 diff so you'll need a suitable overdrive box. A 520i/320i box would probably do the job if you avoid doing burnouts and that means you can retain your existing prop and gearchange linkage. The 320i/520i use the same basic Getrag 240 box as the 518i but with a different bellhousing bolt pattern. You could also use the bigger, stronger M20 325i box (also found in the 12v E34 525i) and that means a shorter prop. Trouble is, the props you'll be using (E28 525i and 528i) normally have the big M30 prop donut that won't fit the 325i output flange. I had this issue converting a 525e from auto to manual and ended up getting a custom prop done - E28 rear half, altered E30 325i front half and balanced up. Using the 2 litre 240 box would be a lot easier.
Alternatively, you can use the 328i gearbox and a suitable diff such as a 3.07 or 2.93 525e unit. These are both 188 casings like all other non 3.5 E28's so are a straight swap. The 535i 3.07 LSD is a big 210 casing but because yours is a post 9/84 car with the relocated diff mount on the boot floor, that will also bolt in okay. You may need to be clever regarding the prop though - bolt the engine and box in and measure from the diff flange to the gearbox output flange. You may be very lucky and find something that's a perfect fit. I'd imagine 525i E34 front exhaust and manifolds linked to a 528i/535i rear system will do the job with a few mods.
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alan1272
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thanks for the advice, you seem to know your stuff about e28's, i may be asking for some help later.
i have a pair of 318is boxes here and a 320i box and prop from various breakers over the years.
i was planning to use a 318is box with m20 flywheel and starter and 325i clutch.
a bit of gear linkage modification is not an issue as i have already done that with my rally car when i fitted a compact box.
the exhaust will be a combination of the E36's and some pipe i have left over from making my own for the rally car; maybe i'll get a posh one done in stainless when it's all working right (probably not though, i'm too bloody tight!)
i have a pair of 318is boxes here and a 320i box and prop from various breakers over the years.
i was planning to use a 318is box with m20 flywheel and starter and 325i clutch.
a bit of gear linkage modification is not an issue as i have already done that with my rally car when i fitted a compact box.
the exhaust will be a combination of the E36's and some pipe i have left over from making my own for the rally car; maybe i'll get a posh one done in stainless when it's all working right (probably not though, i'm too bloody tight!)
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alan1272
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i was going to remove most of the loom just in case i missed something i needed for the conversion before the shell goes for scrap.DanThe wrote:Why do you need to remove the fusebox? Let me know what ABS unit it has, I might come and buy the complete loom off you/have a nose etc
if you tell me how to identify the ABS unit i'll gladly tell you which one it has
Could you not do the opposite to the m30-m20 gear box flange swap and put the larger pdc flange on the 260 box and use a 525i 528i prop?Andyboy wrote: You could also use the bigger, stronger M20 325i box (also found in the 12v E34 525i) and that means a shorter prop. Trouble is, the props you'll be using (E28 525i and 528i) normally have the big M30 prop donut that won't fit the 325i output flange. I had this issue converting a 525e from auto to manual and ended up getting a custom prop done - E28 rear half, altered E30 325i front half and balanced up. Using the 2 litre 240 box would be a lot easier.
.gcs325i wrote:Could you not do the opposite to the m30-m20 gear box flange swap and put the larger pdc flange on the 260 box and use a 525i 528i prop?Andyboy wrote: You could also use the bigger, stronger M20 325i box (also found in the 12v E34 525i) and that means a shorter prop. Trouble is, the props you'll be using (E28 525i and 528i) normally have the big M30 prop donut that won't fit the 325i output flange. I had this issue converting a 525e from auto to manual and ended up getting a custom prop done - E28 rear half, altered E30 325i front half and balanced up. Using the 2 litre 240 box would be a lot easier.
I'm sure you could, yes.
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alan1272
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ok did a bit more stripping of the donor today.
as i said earlier, i'm not familiar with these engines, can someone tell me wht this is loacted near the starter? it's some vaccum device and the little tube goes to the fusebox. can it go in the bin?
also, the tab that identifies nikasil/alusil/steel linered is next to it, can anyone remeber what it means?
as i said earlier, i'm not familiar with these engines, can someone tell me wht this is loacted near the starter? it's some vaccum device and the little tube goes to the fusebox. can it go in the bin?
also, the tab that identifies nikasil/alusil/steel linered is next to it, can anyone remeber what it means?
The vacuum an accumulator for the vacuum operated exhaust flap on 328i's. It can go with the vacuum supply blanked.
The metal pear shaped tab indicates that it has had a steel liner block replacement for the original nikasil block.
No such thing as alusil blocks on M52's! Common misconception!
The metal pear shaped tab indicates that it has had a steel liner block replacement for the original nikasil block.
No such thing as alusil blocks on M52's! Common misconception!
What a great project Often wondered why people haven't done M52 conversions in E28's/E34's
Keep it coming
Andy
Often wondered why people haven't done M52 conversions in E28's/E34'sKeep it coming
Andy
M50B25NonVanos & M52B28Vanos Heads for sale. Pm Me.
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alan1272
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there hasn't been any progress on this really over the last couple of weeks. im currently waiting on a mate to move the shell but his car transporter is out of action, i've promised him the car as payment for moving it from anglesey so can't just get rid. hopefully it'll be gone in a few weeks.
bought a sump gasket and a gasket for the oil pick up so i can change them over while i wait for the shell to go.
took the aircon pump off the engine and, er, that's about all!
went to watch wales rally GB yesterday so i'm trying to resist the temptation to go and put some entrys in for rallys!
bought a sump gasket and a gasket for the oil pick up so i can change them over while i wait for the shell to go.
took the aircon pump off the engine and, er, that's about all!
went to watch wales rally GB yesterday so i'm trying to resist the temptation to go and put some entrys in for rallys!
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alan1272
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probably because they don't drop straight in and they dont make as much power as the M30B35. it's a bit of a silly idea when you look at it that wayAndy325i wrote:What a great project
Keep it coming
Andy
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alan1272
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The raped E36 has gone for scrap now so i have a bit of room to do some work on the engine before i bring the E28 in for surgery.
i tried the 318is gearbox on the engine and predictibly it fouled on the clutch, so an M20 flywheel is required if someone out there has one.
i removed the e36 sump and oil pick up from the engine and fitted the e34 pickup.
i then hit a bit of a snag, the sump i have from (what i assume) the e34 has a windage tray riveted to it, and the m52 has one bolted on, so i removed the one from the engine assuming that the e34 sump with the built in tray would fit fine. not so.
it is fouling against the block on the 3 protrusions at the top of the picture.
this is the e36 windage tray that has a bracket for the oil pickup on the underside.
has anyone come across this problem before?
i see two solutions:
A. trim the protrusions on the e34 tray to make it fit.
B. drill the rivets out and remove the tray from the e34 sump and use the e36 one with the bracket for the pickup removed. (this would seem the simpler but as the e34 tray sits on 'towers' cast into the sump it is possible the sump could foul on something even after the tray has been removed.)
suggestions?
i tried the 318is gearbox on the engine and predictibly it fouled on the clutch, so an M20 flywheel is required if someone out there has one.
i removed the e36 sump and oil pick up from the engine and fitted the e34 pickup.
i then hit a bit of a snag, the sump i have from (what i assume) the e34 has a windage tray riveted to it, and the m52 has one bolted on, so i removed the one from the engine assuming that the e34 sump with the built in tray would fit fine. not so.
it is fouling against the block on the 3 protrusions at the top of the picture.
this is the e36 windage tray that has a bracket for the oil pickup on the underside.
has anyone come across this problem before?
i see two solutions:
A. trim the protrusions on the e34 tray to make it fit.
B. drill the rivets out and remove the tray from the e34 sump and use the e36 one with the bracket for the pickup removed. (this would seem the simpler but as the e34 tray sits on 'towers' cast into the sump it is possible the sump could foul on something even after the tray has been removed.)
suggestions?
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alan1272
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ok, i've just found this in the zone wiki:
can someone just confirm that this is the way to go before i ruin a perfectly good sump?To fit the E34 sump to an M52 engine, you will need to remove the internal baffle plate (see pic). The plate unbolts, but it is also necessary to drill or grind down the mounting columns so that the bottom of the dish is flat.
Sorry I can't help with the sump mating. But..
I think magpie on here had three lightened M20 flywheels for sale not too long ago.
alan1272 wrote:
i tried the 318is gearbox on the engine and predictibly it fouled on the clutch, so an M20 flywheel is required if someone out there has one.
I think magpie on here had three lightened M20 flywheels for sale not too long ago.
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alan1272
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i need to stop fannying about and crack on with this
drilled out the rivets and then ground them down to remove the windage tray from the sump. this is now bolted up to the engine.
found some heavy plate and seamless bar to use for the mounts. it's gonna take a more serious welder than mine to penetrate this stuff!
drilled out the rivets and then ground them down to remove the windage tray from the sump. this is now bolted up to the engine.
found some heavy plate and seamless bar to use for the mounts. it's gonna take a more serious welder than mine to penetrate this stuff!
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alan1272
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i've had bit of time to work on the car this week so some progress has been made
i fitted the m52 fuel rail and injectors to the m50 manifold and made up some small ali brackets to bolt it to.
i also started sorting out the pipework on the manifold using the very good guide in the sticky here: http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 24&start=0
i found some 5mm steel plate for what will become my home brewed engine mounts
these will bolt to the block and then i'll eventually weld the bar to them.
also, to head off any potential servo clearance problems, i went and got myself a clio servo (on the right) if anyone has to remove one from a clio themselves, they come off the bulkhead fine but you cant get it out past the engine without undoing the drivers side engine mount and prying the engine forward!
and finally, i cleard some space in the garage and got the e28 in now the real fun can begin!
m10 coming out tomorrow!
i fitted the m52 fuel rail and injectors to the m50 manifold and made up some small ali brackets to bolt it to.
i also started sorting out the pipework on the manifold using the very good guide in the sticky here: http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... 24&start=0
i found some 5mm steel plate for what will become my home brewed engine mounts
these will bolt to the block and then i'll eventually weld the bar to them.
also, to head off any potential servo clearance problems, i went and got myself a clio servo (on the right)
if anyone has to remove one from a clio themselves, they come off the bulkhead fine but you cant get it out past the engine without undoing the drivers side engine mount and prying the engine forward!and finally, i cleard some space in the garage and got the e28 in
now the real fun can begin!m10 coming out tomorrow!
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anothere21323i
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Now that I like very much!
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Das_BMW_E30
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I don't want to chuck a spanner in the works, but....
The sump might need a baffle installed / welded inside, to stop the oil going towards the back of the engine under hard acceleration, and starving the front mounted oil pick up of oil....
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&start=25
The sump might need a baffle installed / welded inside, to stop the oil going towards the back of the engine under hard acceleration, and starving the front mounted oil pick up of oil....
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&start=25
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alan1272
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hmm, can't see it needing a baffle like in that link, it's only a m52b28. it's never going to see a track or any nonsense like that so it'll be fine.Das_BMW_E30 wrote:I don't want to chuck a spanner in the works, but....
The sump might need a baffle installed / welded inside, to stop the oil going towards the back of the engine under hard acceleration, and starving the front mounted oil pick up of oil....
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&start=25
It should be okay, but the winding tray is there for a reason.....alan1272 wrote:hmm, can't see it needing a baffle like in that link, it's only a m52b28. it's never going to see a track or any nonsense like that so it'll be fine.Das_BMW_E30 wrote:I don't want to chuck a spanner in the works, but....
The sump might need a baffle installed / welded inside, to stop the oil going towards the back of the engine under hard acceleration, and starving the front mounted oil pick up of oil....
http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... c&start=25
What box/diff are you using?