2.0 M42

[Alex]

Bored with the m40 auto in my touring allready.

Was talking to Dezzy today and with insurance in mind he was saying why not build a 2.0 or 2.1 m42 and has got me thinking.

Would i be right in thinking an m44 crank and rods with s52 pistons will create a 1947cc ? do the pistons need machining ?

does an m47 crank drop straight in or would it require machining to fit ?

its confuses me all this bore size and displacement calculation mallarky

[redcar]

Would a whole standalone engine management be required if this is achieved?

I think Tim had a 2.1 m4x

[Alex]

i'am sure you can just get the original done with a live remap

[redcar]

This is useful to discover what combinations of bits give what displacement

http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/inde ... roker_Info

[Alex]

i know but when it says custom piston what the fook is that suppose to mean

I want simple bolt together bits with minimal machining, and if anything needs machining i want to know how much need off and what bits

[pac1982]

I often thought about doing this when I had my IS but for the work I would rather do an M52 conversion, I know your thinking about insurance but I don’t think insurance would be much different for a 2.0/2.1 engine than an M52

Oh and btw glad you saw the light and decided to break that sorry turd of a compact you had

[redcar]

The block would need boring to a size suitable for a set of custom pistons from JE or something. Are there plug and play pistons to create a 2.1 ?
Also, i think an m44 block is needed.

[rix313]

This maybe a helpful tool for you: http://www.motorenteile.mahle.com/eLIZA ... e/byParams if you select 'BMW' and 'Petrol' it will bring up all the details for the petrol engine pistons. M42/44 are on pages 9 and 10 and S** engines are on page 16. For each there is a detailed diagram which will tell you all info on the piston to be able to work out which ones you can use.

Hopefuly before you're head falls off searching some one will spring up with the exact info and put you out of your missery

There was some one who used a rover diesel rank which had the same throw but was too short. Not sure what happened of it, I think they got it to work but it needed extending, which is never perfect for an engine component.

An M44 block already has a larger bore which naturaly already gives you a couple more CC over an M42 block.

[Alex]

I often thought about doing this when I had my IS but for the work I would rather do an M52 conversion, I know your thinking about insurance but I don’t think insurance would be much different for a 2.0/2.1 engine than an M52

Oh and btw glad you saw the light and decided to break that sorry turd of a compact you had

it was always going to be broke for parts for my mothers one.

a 6 pot m50 will stand out an m42 wont

Catch my drift .....

[Alex]

This maybe a helpful tool for you: http://www.motorenteile.mahle.com/eLIZA ... e/byParams if you select 'BMW' and 'Petrol' it will bring up all the details for the petrol engine pistons. M42/44 are on pages 9 and 10 and S** engines are on page 16. For each there is a detailed diagram which will tell you all info on the piston to be able to work out which ones you can use.

Hopefuly before you're head falls off searching some one will spring up with the exact info and put you out of your missery

There was some one who used a rover diesel rank which had the same throw but was too short. Not sure what happened of it, I think they got it to work but it needed extending, which is never perfect for an engine component.

An M44 block already has a larger bore which naturaly already gives you a couple more CC over an M42 block.

i got to bore and got confused

i want a simple answer on what bits will create what

[Alburglar]

I have been researching exactly this. 2 types of
M47 crank, both can be used in m44 or m42. 88 mm stroke crank is easier to modify than the 90mm. All parts are available from metric mechanic and a 2.1 requires 87mm pistons. Custom means you just send the measurements to je a another piston firm and they make them. I am not totally up to speed on s50 and s52 piston sizes yet.
As for m44 crank- yes it fits, what rods and pistons you use also varies greatly.

[Alex]

This maybe a helpful tool for you: http://www.motorenteile.mahle.com/eLIZA ... e/byParams if you select 'BMW' and 'Petrol' it will bring up all the details for the petrol engine pistons. M42/44 are on pages 9 and 10 and S** engines are on page 16. For each there is a detailed diagram which will tell you all info on the piston to be able to work out which ones you can use.

Hopefuly before you're head falls off searching some one will spring up with the exact info and put you out of your missery

There was some one who used a rover diesel rank which had the same throw but was too short. Not sure what happened of it, I think they got it to work but it needed extending, which is never perfect for an engine component.

An M44 block already has a larger bore which naturaly already gives you a couple more CC over an M42 block.

so anything with bore 84 will fit ?

[Alex]

n42's and m52's have a bore of 84 so does that mean the pistons will fit in the block

how do i work out what other bits and pieces calculate too ?

[rix313]

If using an M42 block then 84mm, if using an M44 block then 85mm. If you got hold of some S52 pistons, you could send them to a specialist engine machine shop and they should be able to modify them for you if possible. This should save the cost of shiney new custom made pistons.

[Alex]

If using an M42 block then 84mm, if using an M44 block then 85mm. If you got hold of some S52 pistons, you could send them to a specialist engine machine shop and they should be able to modify them for you if possible. This should save the cost of shiney new custom made pistons.

So what would need to be modified?

Ps: did you get my pm

[rix313]

So what would need to be modified?

Ps: did you get my pm

I have this wierd feeling in the back of my head that the crown needs machining but that could be total bollocks .

Yeah, but I'm ignoring you

[Alex]

So what would need to be modified?

Ps: did you get my pm

I have this wierd feeling in the back of my head that the crown needs machining but that could be total bollocks .

Yeah, but I'm ignoring you

probably easier to build a 1.9 m42/m44 hybrid.

N53 pistons are 85

[rix313]

You need to look at various dimensions, for example if you pick a piston with a crown height which is too high, you could end up slamming the valves into the top of the piston. You also need to have a piston which uses the same size gudgeon pin as the rod you intend to use, otherwise you can't join them

Have you had a look on M42 club, might be some info on there?

Here's a key for the Mahle website:

KH=compression height
VT=valve recess depth
MT=combustion chamber depth
Mdiam=combustion chamber diameter
GL= total length

S52's were only shipped out to the USA too so you'd need to get a set from over there. They're also the 86mm as are the S50 ones, so you would need to bore the block regardless.

The wiki could really do with a going over from some one who's done it too that'd help.

[Alburglar]

M47 cranks (88mm stroke)
E46 320d. 1997-2001. Not the M47N

E39 520d. 1999-2003

E46 318d. 2001-2003/04 Not the M47N

* 1999-2004 Rover 75 CDT

M47D20

* 100 kW (134 hp) and 280 N·m (207 ft·lbf)
o 1999-2001 E46 320d
o 2000-2003 E39 520d
* 85 kW (114 hp) and 265 N·m (195 ft·lbf)
o 1999-2001 E46 318d

90mm stroke crank
M47TUD20

* 85 kW (114 hp) and 280 N·m (207 ft·lbf)
o 2001-2005 E46 318d
* 110 kW (148 hp) and 330 N·m (243 ft·lbf)
o 2001-2005 E46 320d
o E83 X3 2.0d
* 2004-2005 Rover 75 CDTi


M47TU2D20

* 90 kW (121 hp) and 280 N·m (207 ft·lbf)
o E87 118d
o E90/E91 318d
* 120 kW (161 hp) and 340 N·m (251 ft·lbf)
o E60/E61 520d
o E87 120d
o E90/E91 320d

Also
99-04 rover 75 CDT
04-05 rover cdti
01-06 landrover freelander td4


Using M47N 90mm crank
If it can be used with E36 S50 B30 US M3 piston which has 86mm diameter and 32.8mm compression distance plus 135mm conrod length, the resulting displacement is 2,091cc (86mm x 90mm) with 1,5 conrod ratio. Off course you need to enlarge the bore to 86mm (2mm larger for m42 or 1mm larger for M44)
The total deck height will 211.80mm or it will sits 0.35mm lower than M42/M44 standard deck height.





The 88 stroke crank must
have the nose turned down
and a second keyway added
to secure the chain sprocket
and front harmonic balancer
hub.

[Alex]

Am learning

Looking at these

http://store.vacmotorsports.com/cp-pist ... p2312.aspx

If i got the bores widened to 86 mm and fitted these to a standard m44 block what would that give ? 2.0?

[Alburglar]

90mm crank needs an extension piece too.


It has less balancers and is a little harder to make work...apparently. I have just sold a car and I will be gathering parts for my build soon.

All pictures are from here:
http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdfs/metr ... ooklet.pdf

[Alburglar]

Am learning

Looking at these

http://store.vacmotorsports.com/cp-pist ... p2312.aspx

If i got the bores widened to 86 mm and fitted these to a standard m44 block what would that give ? 2.0?

2.0 yes, there abouts.

[Alex]

Am learning

Looking at these

http://store.vacmotorsports.com/cp-pist ... p2312.aspx

If i got the bores widened to 86 mm and fitted these to a standard m44 block what would that give ? 2.0?

2.0 yes, there abouts.

Sounds easiest option.

May have to go down that route. if i'am honest all this machining crank is confusing.

If i emailed and asked for 87mm over size would that be too much for the block to take? assume that would be 2.1

would 88mm be taking the piS3

is it expensive to get engine blocks bored out

[Alburglar]

I'm gonna do m47 88mm crank, s50 86mm pistons and standard m42 rods. As long as it's safe to take 2.8mm off the piston height.
or i will fork out for the metric mechanic 137 or138mm rods and use s50 pistons in standard form.

Bored out m44 sounds good tho!

[Alburglar]

I don't think there will be enough meat between the bores at with 88mm cylinders (if any). A bore out and short engine build is not particularly expensive if you remove engine and strip it down to the block.

[Alex]

I'm gonna do m47 88mm crank, s50 86mm pistons and standard m42 rods. As long as it's safe to take 2.8mm off the piston height.
or i will fork out for the metric mechanic 138mm rods and use s50 pistons in standard form.

Bored out m44 sounds good tho!

as long as it will run, i'am new to engine rebuilds, ive stripped an m10 and m20 down before and know whats what in them. so want to make i as easy as possible.

If i bought 87mm pistons then along with getting the bores widened it will make a 2.1

How much does it cost to get them bore'd out ?

[rix313]

Awesome info there

[Alex]

one more question then, will an m44 block bolt upto an m42 head and will an m42 engine managment loom and all hoses etc bolt to an m44 block

If i built one with the spec above and had it live mapped on standard ecu would 170bhp be achivable

[rix313]

Water hoses will all be the same. M42 engine loom should work. Bare in mind the M42 has the crank sensor on the front bolted to the timing case and the M44 has the crank sensor mounted at the back of the block near the flywheel. If you use a diesel crank you'd need to use the M42 system with a pulley wheel.

[Alex]

Think iam going to start saving for an m44 based 2.1

[rix313]

This should prove very useful: http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdfs/metr ... ooklet.pdf