Strange..

[BMWE30325]

i've left the car in the garage for 3 weeks came back after the holidays it started normaly took it for a drive done about 30miles. It went back in the garage and after 3 days of standing the car turns but not starts the intank fuel pump was changed few months ago because of the same problem dont think it will be the pump again?

here is the pic of the fueses and relays not sure which ones to check if any one could give me some pointers what esle should i check?

P.S dont want to tow it again to a workshop

[e301988325i]

You'll probably get more help posting in the tech help section, I'm guessing it's a 325 from your username title, man or auto? Does it smell of petrol when cranking?

[BMWE30325]

yes its a 325 man and no smell of petrol

[TPS]

Moved.

[mrLEE30]

1 check fuse 11
2 remove a spark plug and confirm you have a spark while cranking
3No spark? then check for power at the coil, and the crank position sensor(and wiring)
4Yes spark then remove fuel pump relay (located in the smaller relay cover close to the air flow meter located in middle slot(not in the picture above) then bridge female pins 30 and 87 and try to start. Remove wire after trying. If it starts then relay at fault, if not then check for power at fuel pump with the wire bridge in place using a test bulb. Power here means pump is likely duff

[BMWE30325]

1 check fuse 11
2 remove a spark plug and confirm you have a spark while cranking
3No spark? then check for power at the coil, and the crank position sensor(and wiring)
4Yes spark then remove fuel pump relay (located in the smaller relay cover close to the air flow meter located in middle slot(not in the picture above) then bridge female pins 30 and 87 and try to start. Remove wire after trying. If it starts then relay at fault, if not then check for power at fuel pump with the wire bridge in place using a test bulb. Power here means pump is likely duff

thanks it was a relay

[E30_Crazy]

Just wondering, how would power at the pump mean that the pump is bad? I'm following this trying to figure out why mine won't start. Tried swapping the relay, but no good.

I figure that power at the pump with the wire bridge would mean the relay is bad, not the pump?

[Brianmoooore]

Just wondering, how would power at the pump mean that the pump is bad? I'm following this trying to figure out why mine won't start. Tried swapping the relay, but no good.

I figure that power at the pump with the wire bridge would mean the relay is bad, not the pump?

If there's power at the pump, and the pump isn't running, then the pump has failed.

[mrLEE30]

You are correct in saying if you test for power at pump with bridge then the relay could be faulty, but if power is there and car does not start then the pump is not working, so possible both relay and pump faulty, but the test I describe is to check the pump not the relay.

The relay test would be to fit the relay and the test lamp at the pump and crank the engine, if the bulb lights then relay is ok, if not then bridge the pins and fit the light, if it now lights you
confirm the relay is the problem.

[E30_Crazy]

ahh ok I see. Well, I know th pump is working with the bridge at least, since I can hear it running... But it still wouldn't start. I'll have to pull a fuel hose off and see if the pressure is actually getting to the engine. Might be a bad filter or something stuck in a line.

[E30_Crazy]

Getting fuel from the hose when I bridged the pins, but not with the relay in and cranking the engine over. Swapped out a like relay (horn I think) and got fuel when cranking.

Thing is, it still won't start. I gave it a couple times to pressurize the system back up, then let it sit while I put the back seat back together (incase of flooding) but again no dice. I have spark, and there are no obvious/major vacuum leaks. The ECU is on and buzzing with switched ignition, and the ICV too.

The biggest puzzler to me, I had it started the morning this all started happening. I forgot to unlock the glove box, so turned the car off, unlocked it, then it never started again.

[Brianmoooore]

Give it a cranking session, and then take a spark plug or two out. Are they wet with fuel?

[E30_Crazy]

Don't have a socket that'll get the spark plugs out. I usually drive to the DIY workshop and use their tools. Might be able to borrow one from somebody around the neighborhood. Too late tonight anyways. I get complaints about even trying to drive my car after 7pm, let alone outside working on it.

[Brianmoooore]

Don't have a socket that'll get the spark plugs out. .

Should be one in the toolkit on the boot lid.

[E30_Crazy]

Might be. Didn't think about that. That is, if it is still there....

[E30_Crazy]

Haven't got around to taking out a spark plug after cranking it a bit. Working nights, so can't really pester the neighborhood with noise at 2-3am. Gonna try around noon tomorrow before work.

Just from speculation, lets say the plugs are wet with fuel... I know they are getting spark, so if the plugs are clean, just wet, what would that indicate? Obviously, if they are grimed up, either clean them up good, and/or buy new ones. Then tend to the reason they are fouling (pretty sure its the same reason I'm getting ~11-12mpg)

[mrLEE30]

with plugs in crank it for a 5-10 seconds (no foot on throttle)

then take one plug out, if it is wet with fuel then you know fuel is getting into the conbustion chamber, if it is dry then no fuel - check another plug

wet plug, my next step would be to ensure spark (careful when doing this with a cylinder full of fuel otherwise an engine fire will be your main concern) - dont just assume its working check it again.

if you have spark and a wet plug then something more serious wrong such as a slipped timing belt etc etc...or engine just flooded. try removing the fuel pump relay, and crank on FULL throttle for ten-fifteen secs. then replace fulel relay and crank with no foot on throttle, does it even splutter or just turn over? remove spark and see it wet with fuel, check spark again.

if after test one the plug is dry then no fuel into the cylinder, thus could be faulty fuel pressure regulator, or elelctical problem with the loom for the injectors (check the plug in more than one cylinder in this case all dry then issues)

try these and report back!

[E30_Crazy]

ok, well I don't have the spark plug tool in the boot... Gonna have to get one someday soon.

I did do a little more tinkering though, maybe this will shed some light. I swapped the ICV/boot back to my original pre-face one, which didn't change a thing. I thought I might as well swap out the FPR and see if that made any difference. In the end, not so much, as it still won't start, but while I had it off, I checked to see of the injectors were working without having to pull them out. With the FPR unbolted from the rail, there was a visible puddle of fuel sitting at the spout were its o-ring seals. I took the fuel pump relay out, and gave it some cranks. The fuel level dropped, to me indicating the injectors are working (or most). Most interesting though, was it actually sputted to life for a few seconds, without the fuel pump relay or FPR After it was all back together, it was back to the same old nothing, except maybe 1 or 2 spurts here and there over about 10-15 seconds cranking.

[E30_Crazy]

Got the plugs out yesterday. From what I could tell, they were getting fuel. Kind of bad looking, so I cleaned them up good. Still not the best, but they are good enough to run. They are a weird one, Bosch Super 4 it say on them. I found one plug that wouldn't fire anymore just now. I have a spare, so that's taken care of. With the plugs out I can smell fuel coming from the head, so at least some of the injectors are working. Gonna have to put the plugs back and check to make sure they are all getting fuel.

After that, I'll try removing relay and starting with full throttle, etc here in a second.

[mrLEE30]

Or just leave it overnight with no plugs in, this will have same effect.

Cars will run with no fuel Pump for a few seconds as there is enough fuel in the pipes etc, But running with no FPR is strange!

So you are getting a spark then? Try leave it overnight to "dry out" clean and replace the plugs and see if it fires in the morning, use NO throttle while starting and don't crank for more than five seconds, each time turn fully off then on again.

[E30_Crazy]

Just acomplished that this morning (2pm). It sat overnight with no plugs, and I tried starting in normally (no throttle etc). Don't know if it's just mine, or all E30's, but I already have to turn fully off before I can crank again.

With no pump relay, it fire almost straight away. Then died. Put the relay in, and going back out to try again.

[E30_Crazy]

With relay back in, it won't hardly even sputter, just cranking over.

[mrLEE30]

Sounds like issue may be with the FPR and/or injectors from what you say.

You didn't answer if you have good spark on all cylinders.

[E30_Crazy]

Yeah good spark on all.

[E30_Crazy]

I've already swapped FPR with good one.

[E30_Crazy]

ok just got it to finally start and stay running. Running really rough, so I think there might one spark plug bad that I must have missed when testing them. now to find it, lol. I almost don't want to turn off the car!

[mrLEE30]

Have you messed with anything else lately? Timing belt? Air flow meter?

You have spark, you seem to have fuel, the only other things are air and timing.

[mrLEE30]

Suppose I should have asked earlier, do you have six plugs or four?

One missing in six is not too bad and normally starts, one in four is harder, and why I asked are ALL plugs sparking.

Change all four/six plugs for correct type.

[E30_Crazy]

yeah its a 6. ETA bottom 2.7

[E30_Crazy]

any experience with the bosch super 4's?

[mrLEE30]

nope!

[Speedtouch]

Sounds like a simple case of running too rich. Check the blue temperature sender on the thermostat housing; it should measure approx. 3300 ohms cold, dropping to around 600 ohms hot.

[E30_Crazy]

I talked to someone at work today, and he said it night be that the plugs are too cold for the engine. Gonna pick up some new standard ones. I've always heard they are plenty efficient even for stroked/cammed M20's.

Speedtouch- I've checked the blue sensor a couple times pretty recently while trying to find why I only get 12mpg. Doesn't mean it isn't bad now though.

Running fine now, it just didn't like running cold after 2 weeks dead.


On the way to work this afternoon, it started running poorly again, dying if I didn't keep gassing it. Tried to stop, and the brake pedal was stiff, with no braking power. Ended up being the brake booster hose coming out of the throttle body. All better now

[Speedtouch]

Check the blue temp sensor at the ECU socket, in case the wiring between it and the ECU is faulty.

Use a multimeter between pins 45 and 2/14/24 (earth), according to this diagram:

http://www.autolib.diakom.ru/CAR/BMW/19 ... /fig02.pdf

Also maybe worth doing a compression test on the cylinders.

[E30_Crazy]

Yeah, the ECU part is in the works when testing the sensor, thanks . I think it was you who told me how to, to begin with.

Haven't done a compression test yet on this engine. Know where I can get ahold of the figures for an ETA bottom, facelift upper 2.7 build? I think they are near the same for standard facelift 2.5, but not sure.