spark but no fuel

[randomspeedfreak]

right, got the car turning over today.
i think ive got the ews right now, as im getting a spark and can hear the module click in the acc position

i dont think im getting any fuel though

the fuel pump runs when the key is in the run position, it dosent prime it just runs and runs.

you can feel the inlet and outlet of the fuel rail have fuel circulating, but i dont think the injectors are firing at all.no smell of fuel no spluttering just straight up nothing.

HELP! where do i start!?

[Barx325i]

silly one, do you have the flow correctly plumbed?

[randomspeedfreak]

silly one, do you have the flow correctly plumbed?

i think so..... would it have this affect if it was incorrect?
ill double check tomorrow

any other possibilities?

cheers

[Jimbob]

Yes, and this appears to be a common thing when it comes to first time firing it up - I'll bear this in mind when I get that far!

[randomspeedfreak]

ive just realised i think i put what should be an earth to power!
jesus i hope i havent fried anything.
im trying to remember if i did but i recon that could be the culprit

any other suggestions still welcome

[e30-EVN]

Fuel lines the wrong way round is such an easy 1 to get muddled... Hands in the air, I've done this lol

Fuel return from fpr...........

Bad ews will give no fuel and spark. Car will turn but not fire!

[randomspeedfreak]

Fuel return from fpr...........

wait a minute woah woah woah, the fpr is on the RETURN end of the fuel rail?!

[e30-EVN]

Yes mate, fuel supply to the rail- circulates the fuel rail - returns via the fpr to tank......

Its the fpr that keeps fuel pressure "in" the rail ect

[randomspeedfreak]

Right down the garage. I hadn't made a mistake with the brown wire, it is earthed which is good! But on the other hand i'm not getting any fuel pressure at all - the pump hasn't even hinted at running.

I've measured the voltage at both the e36 pump relay and at the pin that goes to the e30 relay (should I have both by the way?!) and they both rise to 12 volts momentarily when in the run position then drop to 0.

When cranking both then drop to about 9 volts but nothing from the pump.

While all this is going on the idle control valve is buzzing constantly, from the moment you switch to the run position till 6 seconds after everything is off.

I don't know where i've gone wrong please help if you

Cheers,
Matt

[randomspeedfreak]

anyone please!

[randomspeedfreak]

ive got the e36 wiring diagrams out, my loom came from an auto, so what is the transmission control module?

is this something i will have? how does it work?

[randomspeedfreak]

okay it appears that the traction control module, tcm, is what i / we have been calling the auto ecu.

is the only thing that is needed is to remove the auto ecu? as if you look to page 161 here:

http://wedophones.com/Manuals/BMW/1996% ... Manual.pdf

it looks like the tcm controls a switch for the fuel pump

[DanThe]

I assume you have checked for power at the fuse?

[randomspeedfreak]

I assume you have checked for power at the fuse?

i checked at the terminal of the c101. pin 13 i think. would that be the same?

[DanThe]

That would be one side of the fuse yes, but have you checked the other side, ie between the fuse and pump?

[randomspeedfreak]

That would be one side of the fuse yes, but have you checked the other side, ie between the fuse and pump?

i havent,
how would i go about that?
*edit*
remove the fuse then test the voltage drop across from each pin when in the run position?

[randomspeedfreak]

why do i still have 2 relays for the fuel pump?

surely i should have done away with the m52 circuit and use the standard e30 relay using the signal from the ecu?

[DanThe]

You seem very confused
The fuel pump is switched via one relay which is part of the engine loom, the signal goes from the relay through Pin 13 of the C101 to fuse 11 then down through the car to the fuel pump.

[randomspeedfreak]

You seem very confused
The fuel pump is switched via one relay which is part of the engine loom, the signal goes from the relay through Pin 13 of the C101 to fuse 11 then down through the car to the fuel pump.

i am very confused!

i think my confusion is because i have more than one relay seemingly performing the same task! i havent seen any mention of taking a relay out before!

so what happens to the relay that was previously turning the fuel pump on before i did the conversion? surely this is sitting in the fuse box and breaking the circuit as it is still connected, but not being switched on by anything?

right so i am to use the m52 relay and should make a circuit like this (pretty picture! )



thats it? no other complications?

dan what does it mean if i find no power on the 'pump' side of the fuse?

[DanThe]

The fuel pump relay would have been on your original E30 engine loom, there is no second relay, maybe a picture would help?
The way id test it is to bridge the pump relay (thick Red to thick Green/Purple) and see if the pump spins, if it doesnt check for power at the fuse (easy job) if you have power there then check for power at the pump itself

[Green]

Can you hear the pump prime when you put the ignition on? Have you tried removing the fuel lines from the fuel rail and crank it over, make sure the lines are in a bottle or something to catch the petrol. If you're getting fuel through that's not your problem.

[randomspeedfreak]

The fuel pump relay would have been on your original E30 engine loom, there is no second relay, maybe a picture would help?
The way id test it is to bridge the pump relay (thick Red to thick Green/Purple) and see if the pump spins, if it doesnt check for power at the fuse (easy job) if you have power there then check for power at the pump itself

ohhhh i seeeeeeeeeeee
okay that makes it much simpler!

is that pretty picture correct then dan?

[randomspeedfreak]

Can you hear the pump prime when you put the ignition on? Have you tried removing the fuel lines from the fuel rail and crank it over, make sure the lines are in a bottle or something to catch the petrol. If you're getting fuel through that's not your problem.

the pump does nada, we have the lines off in the bucket it dosent even hint at running

[randomspeedfreak]

anyone got any ideas as to why my idle control valve is constantly buzzing?

how does the fuel pump know when it has reached the correct pressure?

[DanThe]

Fuel pump runs continuous regardless of pressure, the ICV should buzz with ignition on

[randomspeedfreak]

Fuel pump runs continuous regardless of pressure, the ICV should buzz with ignition on

sweet im buzzing to get down there tomorrow a.m. now!

should i wire the circuit as per the (rubbish) diagram dan?

out of interest what does the other relay, also green, that sits right next to the fuel relay, do?

[Green]

Can you hear the pump prime when you put the ignition on? Have you tried removing the fuel lines from the fuel rail and crank it over, make sure the lines are in a bottle or something to catch the petrol. If you're getting fuel through that's not your problem.

the pump does nada, we have the lines off in the bucket it dosent even hint at running

When you turn the ignition on, can you hear the EWS click first?

IIRC this was stopping mine from firing up the first time.

[e30-EVN]

thats a myth mate..

ive had 3 sets and 2 of them did not click. the other 1 did

[DanThe]

Yeah im not sure of the exact date but I think its 1998 when they changed the module and you dont get a click, the ones that dont click usually have a purple plug

[randomspeedfreak]

Can you hear the pump prime when you put the ignition on? Have you tried removing the fuel lines from the fuel rail and crank it over, make sure the lines are in a bottle or something to catch the petrol. If you're getting fuel through that's not your problem.

the pump does nada, we have the lines off in the bucket it dosent even hint at running

When you turn the ignition on, can you hear the EWS click first?

IIRC this was stopping mine from firing up the first time.

yeh i think my ews is wired okay as im getting a spark
i do get that click aswell

should i wire the circuit as per the diagram dan?

out of interest what does the other relay, also green, that sits right next to the fuel relay, do?

[Baurluvva]

I too am having issues with the fuel pump not working.... Fuse is ok.
Do I have to remove the relay off e36 as this is still attached?

[DanThe]

The other relay is the DME, switches power to the loom when ignition comes on
The third relay, on the left in baurluvva pic above, is an addition to later looms, it switches ignition feed to the loom

[Brianmoooore]

All three relays are part of the engine loom. The three sockets (only two relays usually fitted) come out with the original engine when you remove it, and the three new relays go in as part of the engine loom of the new engine.
The relays are the main DME relay, the fuel pump relay and the lambda sensor heater relay.
Linking together pins 30 and 87 of the fuel pump relay's base should make the fuel pump run continuously, whatever engine you have, apart from a carb. M10.

[Baurluvva]

Tried bridging those 2 - nothing!

Also trying to fit m50 manifold but am stumped with this connector - 3 pin!!!

[e30-EVN]

That looks like the plug for ICV mate........