Ferarri Eater?? Is it possible from an E30?

[E30-830]

Ok, so after lookin at some videos on you tube of some E30s and seen some E30s that are throwin out 800+ BHP, some that could leave a ferarri or a lambo behind,8O I got to wondering just how cheaply can you create your own ferarri eater?? Without heavy chopping up of the shell to fit V12s or V10s in.

What engine would be a good base to start tunning from??

Are there any zoners that have created such an E30??

Any thoughts or ideas on this??:)

[Dezzy]

What do you mean by cheap?

800bhp and cheap don't really go together.

[Messenjah]

well alot of it is down to gearing and power to weight aswell as power ...


i think to get enough power down to make the most of some different gearing though you would need to tub or arch the rear to fit wider wheels and tyres

i reckon you could get an e30 down to 1000kg and a murcialago SV has a power to weight ratio of 429bhp/ton

so theoretically you would need only that if you were in a spherical e30 in a vacuum

there are other forces to think about like wind resistance and friction


the SV is 4wd so has a friction advantage to get off the line but dissadvantage once moving and it has massive aurodynamical advantages

so to be a sure fire winner in my humble opinion youwould need about 600bhp and appropriate gearing

[jaistanley]

Combine a large turbo and an S50 engine, or install a big power jap engine like a supra lump and you'll have something that can accelerate in a straight line like nothing else. My S50'd car is quicker than a friends 911 but come to the corner at the end of the straight and he'd sail past me like I'm not there (and he's a crappy driver compared to me.. lol).

In my oppinion I really couldn't use much more power and torque than my S50 can kick out, you have to be realistic about how much use your pub horsepower actually is!

[DHFiS]

If you can afford to modify an E30 to exceed the performance of a Ferrari you have enough money to buy a Ferrari.

[fowler]

well a m20 2.7 turbo with 1150 kgs with 500bhp should be any match for a ferrai but rember the e30 is i styled like a brick compared with a Ferrai so the drag coefficient is alot higher

[Dezzy]

None of the above are in any way cheap. I really like the idea of a supercharged S50 though

[w17led]

My last supercharged e30 m3 was pushing out just under 500 bhp and was about 3 cars lenghts behind a gallardo lp560.

Obviously on a rolling run. Would get left for dust off a launch as no traction.

My new turbo s50 should be fun, just need a decent shell, if anyone knows of any

[oldroydsr4]

I depends which ferrari.

Last time i was at the pod a 355 did a 13.1 quarter - I'm pretty sure an S50 could easily match this.

If you want big cheapish power go for the toyota 1JZ turbo lump, with a single turbo and fueling to match 500bhp is not a problem, the gearboxes are bullet proof and at the moment engines are cheap.

[E30-830]

What do you mean by cheap?

800bhp and cheap don't really go together.

I mean how much horse power can ya get for your buck and which engine would be the best for this.

[ross_jsy]

i think m50's handle boost very well.

supposedly with arp head bolts and a MLS head gasket they will take 500hp

[da4x4turbo]

I think this has been answered above!

So what's the story behind the question anyway? Are you actually interested in doing this or is it just a question being asked out of curiosity?

My 2 cents on the topic is that even if you throw enough money (We're talking astronomical figures here) at an E30 to make it outperform / outhandle a Ferarri it doesn't matter.

The other guy will still have a Ferrari. End of story!

It's all well and good to make an E30 perform at it's very limits, but some cars are in another league and always will be.

It's like that scene in the first Fast and the Furious Movie where the Vin Diesel smokes the Black Ferarri in the Supra... Do you really think the guy in the ferrari would give a toss in real life? He'd probably go back to his malibu mansion and spent the evening wearing the supermodel who was in his passenger seat as a hat!

Sure you can make an E30, or any car go faster than a Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini, but who cares really. Certainly not the Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini owners anyway!

I'm S50'ing mine by the way. 320hp should be loads for now. I'll consider more if I think I need/want it when it's done.

Cheers,

Seány

[town325i]

Sure you can make an E30, or any car go faster than a Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini, but who cares really. Certainly not the Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini owners anyway!

Now thats where your wrong if i owned one of those cars and a 20 year old turd pulled up along side me i would be pissed if it left me. You only buy one of those cars because you know they are fast and will smoke most things on the road. Im sure someone who pays 100k for a car would be realy pissed if a £500 car has just beat them in a traffic light gp.

[Bob_S]

Sure you can make an E30, or any car go faster than a Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini, but who cares really. Certainly not the Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini owners anyway!

Now thats where your wrong if i owned one of those cars and a 20 year old turd pulled up along side me i would be pissed if it left me. You only buy one of those cars because you know they are fast and will smoke most things on the road. Im sure someone who pays 100k for a car would be realy pissed if a £500 car has just beat them in a traffic light gp.

There are 2 supercar buyers.

1. the type that thrash the arse off the buggers and use them as they should and

2. The posers,

neither are going to be hooped about a 20 yr old car that is quicker.. you forget these cars don't have a great deal of grip. I know 911's etc the smallest tyre your going to see is a 295.. now, lets see a 235 is too wide for a standard e30.

[toby]

A £500 E30 is never going to beat a supercar.

Sure you can make an E30, or any car go faster than a Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini, but who cares really. Certainly not the Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini owners anyway!

Now thats where your wrong

No he's right. Not unless the Ferrari owner has a really, really small penis and huge ego. Which is likely I admit.









How cheaply can it be done????
It can't be done cheaply at all!!!

[Dezzy]

Put it this way I have maybe 2k in my M50 build. Custom 3.0lt with S50 pistons, M52 crank and shrick cams in the head. The bores have had 2mm out of them. The block has been decked by 0.5mm for increased c/r.
I have enlarged throttle body, standalone management and lightened flywheel paddle clutch etc etc.
If I see 270bhp I will be over the moon.

For 800bhp write a blank cheque.

[sihooker]

There have been a few mental 1000bhp+ E30's featured in PBMW that would beat a super car of the mark. One of them (green paint with carbon bonnet) is alleged to do 60mph in 2.5 secs, but it cost the owner around £80K to build!

I'd rather have that than a Ferrari, purely for it's uniqueness, but it's an out and out drag strip monster. For day to day use it would probably be way too much after a while...

[weed1]

Easy. Pick a type 2 (poser) with his bird next to him.
He'll miss a shift and you'll have him sorted.

m

[Jon_Bmw]

Put it this way I have maybe 2k in my M50 build. Custom 3.0lt with S50 pistons, M52 crank and shrick cams in the head. The bores have had 2mm out of them. The block has been decked by 0.5mm for increased c/r.
I have enlarged throttle body, standalone management and lightened flywheel paddle clutch etc etc.
If I see 270bhp I will be over the moon.

For 800bhp write a blank cheque.

Dezzy, this is in no way disrespect to the big displacement m50 engines, but when sinking that money into the them, wouldn't buying an s50 have been an easier option? I know they cost more to fit in the engine bay(with the manifold drama), but the fact it has ITBs and more tuneability later on down the line make it a no brainer IMO.

I think if you costed all of your time you put into the m50, you'd be suprised! On the plus side, you have a 'fresh*' engine.

Not being negative, far from it, I loved Dans car, and it smoked me by a frigging mile at the Pod, but is it worth the drama over slotting in an s50


*With second hand crank, pistons, liners etc.

[Dezzy]

Totally agree mate. If I had spent 2k in one lump I would have been daft not to got down the S50 route. They are a heavy lump though. Dan was doing 13.8 at pod which is the same as barry's old S50'd car was doing the same day at York. Dans M52 built into M50 block has 243bhp an S50B30 has 280-290bhp. Real world a light well ballanced E30 is a better package IMO.

Also it's a low milage crank and shells, new bores no liners in the M50 with new rings.

The other thing is my motor is a 1 off. No one has one the same. I am the first to build one this way. All these things are the reason I have gone down this route.

I still will build an S50 E30 one day and put my M50 in a track car.

[w17led]

I agree with dax4x4turbo.

You can get a e30 to beat most supercars on the straight, with enough money, but most supercar owners would not give a toss.

But it still feels good when you keep up with somehting worth over 100k.

Pics of my e30, under my username.

[ross_jsy]

dont know about anyone else, but if i was stinking rich i would ruch rather have a monster of a sleeper, like that turbo koenenseg engined ford granada, what a hero car

[Jon_Bmw]

Totally agree mate. If I had spent 2k in one lump I would have been daft not to got down the S50 route. They are a heavy lump though. Dan was doing 13.8 at pod which is the same as barry's old S50'd car was doing the same day at York. Dans M52 built into M50 block has 243bhp an S50B30 has 280-290bhp. Real world a light well ballanced E30 is a better package IMO.

Also it's a low milage crank and shells, new bores no liners in the M50 with new rings.

The other thing is my motor is a 1 off. No one has one the same. I am the first to build one this way. All these things are the reason I have gone down this route.

I still will build an S50 E30 one day and put my M50 in a track car.

Understood old bean. Sorry I'm too used to farting about with K's and mi's. It certainly will be a weapon and it is nice to be able to spend a bit here and there, rater than one splodge!

[Dezzy]

No need for sorry mate. I didn't set out to make this engine it sort f built it's self. An idea here a wonder here a phone call to dan and we were off.

I think it will be nice though. Fingers crossed

[Morat]

I reckon the real question is "what can you do to an E30 to make it go round corners like a Ferrari" because that would be a real challenge!

[fuzzy]

ive never came up against a ferrari in my touring but i reckon another with another £600 spent on mine getting it to around 400bhp and about 370lbft it wouldnt have been far away so its definately possible.
regardless of whether you beat one or not youd still be going home in a 20 year old bmw with him sitting smugly albeit maybe slightlyconfused in his supercar.

[Kos]

in a straight line is easy to do and build an e30 that will pin an italian super car, not cheap but easy. FI can solve the power, but traction of the line is always difficult so with rolling starts it helps, but after 140/150mph most e30's are unstable and pulling a higher top speed is difficult. however, if you've scared them and only a short distance away by the time you've got to 100 or 120mph the point is proven to be honest. i've certainly emabaresd a few porsche drivers of the years in my M3 which was boosted, never gone up against a ferrari

however i know of couple of natuarally aspirated e30's packing serious s14 and s54 power that will destroy a 360CS around a track, on the straights and on the twisty bits. now thats a challanhge and it was pretty fucking expensive.

i will also mention that they are road legal, MOT'd and taxed.

[bootyman]

This baby would kill most supercars both in a straight line and around corners

Same chap who built my engine and i believe Dips now has this engine sitting in his house ready to go in his convertible. You have to see the car in the flesh to appreciate just how mental it is

http://79.170.40.248/prismmotorsport.co ... &Itemid=48

[HairyScreech]

about 6-8" extra width, rear sus that dosent camber up as much, a reduction in the CoG and some sticky tyres.

a Ferrari may be a super car but there still held by the bounds of physics, the only think an mr engines supercar has over an e30 is polar moment of inertia. every thing else can be fixed.

and as far as the "he still has a Ferrari" argument, there really fucking awful cars, iv had the displeasure of working on a few and seeing under the skin of a lot more, lets just say what you cant see from the outside looks like it was made by fiat. an e30 bmw is 10x the quality in terms of parts and engineering.

[Kos]

about 6-8" extra width, rear sus that dosent camber up as much, a reduction in the CoG and some sticky tyres.

not needed,

you can get 245 under the rear arches with some arch massage, and 265's on an e30 M3. as for camber, simple soution. canmbet tabs which you weld on to rear beam and use some eccentric bolts.

there are few e30's out there which are silly quick, there's G57YLE's car, which 2JZ powered, as ben mentioned Prism Motorsports e30 with is TVR/rover V8 twin turbo power, and
a friends H36 e30 M3 pulls 170+mph, and sprints to 60 in about 5 seconds, drop the gearing a touch and bring the top speed down to 155mph and it'll be even quicker.

so the ground work is there, it just takes some money.

[HairyScreech]

oh i totally agree with you there, theres nothing an ferrari dose in terms of suspension and tyres that an e30 cant be made to do, or even do better.

the width increase was sugested due to this cars quite narrow track and high cog compred to something like a ferarri, you would have to do a lot of lowering to produce the same reduction in the overturning moment of the e30 that could be achieved with 4" more width each side.

if you think of a triangle drawn from each wheel centre to the cog, then the ratio of cog heigh to base width is critical, the lower the cog and the wider the base the better in terms of load transfer between the inside and outside tyre on corner.


camber tabs, yeah that would do the trick, ideally combined with raising the pick up points like a touring car so the sus still works as its designed to do but with the body a lot lower.

sticky tyres will be a major help, a normal road/sport tyre will do in the region of 1-1.5g something awesome possibly up to 2g or more, so theres the potential for twice the cornering force with no other upgrades there. and obviously were dealing with proper interlocking friction so the old chestnut of friction being related to pressure and area are all skewed so more rubber on the ground with the same pressure means more grip.

end of the day, cars a car, same rules apply to all of them, be it a model t or a formula ford.

edit- and thats not to sound like im teaching my gran to suck eggs, im sure you know all that as well as i do.

[bootyman]

At the end of the day anyone with money can walk in a showroom and buy a Ferrari or any other supercar. Isn't it much more fun to actually be involved in building the car from scratch with your own input! I dont drive my car much and at the moment it's only mapped to nearly 300 bhp at 1 bar of boost as the clutch is all over the place (I will change for a race clutch soon and release the full power of the car), but i grin every time i drive it cause the power in the mid range is fantastic and like Kos says once you blow someone away to 120mph - 130mph the point is proven and i dont feel i need to carry on. I had a play with a Lambo on the M25 a few weeks back and it all started with him so far up my back side he could almost see what i had for lunch, so i pulled over and let him pass me and then returned the favor even though i couldnt put the power down cause of the clutch. It was fun though and i'd like to think i gave him something to think about. It certainly made my day anyway!

[S38B38]

Just keep in mind that an oem E60 M5 beats the F430 on higher speeds,,

the E39 M5 eats the F355


and both of my cars smokes a bunch of Ferraris


just remember,,

Ferrari are maby not the best car in the world BUT THE GREATEST

[Morat]

245s on the back eh? I'm assuming you'd need to reinforce the diff mounting too if you're running lots of power and more grip?

[Kos]

245s on the back eh? I'm assuming you'd need to reinforce the diff mounting too if you're running lots of power and more grip?

depends on the state of the car to start with , but the cars i knw of with big power and bigger tyres do not run stock diffs or mountings