Flamin manifold stud !!!!

Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:54 pm

brought an m20 engine as my old one exploded,
decided to do some work on the lump while its out the car,ie water pump,cam belt etc...
putting a new exhaust manifold gasket on and one of the studs broke off,
problem is the swine will not come out,
luckily its sticking out about an inch,so i soaked it it wd40 and got pliers on it,
then got mole grips on it and they kept sliping off so i flatened the top and bottom of the thread and still the mole grips are sliping,ive thought of applying heat to it but i wanted some advice first
the last resort is drilling,but that is the last resort!

Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:59 pm

Before you drill you can always weld a bar to the stud as it's protruding

If the engine isn't in the car you can always take it to a machine shop, they'll be able to get it out.

I can really advise not drilling it, just messed that up myself. Waiting for the bodge fix to cure and see if it's held.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:13 pm

i had a similar experience with an m44 thermostat, we got the bolt out by winding a nut on leaving about 5mm thread pertruding, then flattened the end of the stud with a hammer, the shock will help loosen it up. we then welded the end to fix it and the heat from welding also will help, if you havn't got a welder a blow torch ill do because the nut cannot come off as you have flattened the end

Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:14 pm

sorry just read the original post properly

it seems the thread will be fooked so i would advise heating it up and then get the mole grips on it as tight as possible

Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:36 pm

mole grips have been on it (12" ones) and closed proper tight
the idea of the bolt crossed my mind AFTER id mullered the thread

Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:13 pm

Slightly bigger nut welded over the thread?

Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:40 pm

heat is the answer, what grips are you using, i use 'vise grips' with the straight jaws rather than the curved jaws, they seem to grip well on most metal

Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:55 pm

How about stillies (monkey wrench) i find there better at gripping than mole grips.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:58 pm

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... -extractor

Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:05 pm

Just use a stud extractor, no impact will help free it as the head is alloy and the stud will have corroded in there.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:25 pm

bodger wrote:heat is the answer, what grips are you using, i use 'vise grips' with the straight jaws rather than the curved jaws, they seem to grip well on most metal

What he said, mine are IRWIN vise grips, cheapo ones like draper don't last long as some old studs are made of tougher metal than the jaws

Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:53 pm

awgh fucwitinbastid

managed to get some stilsons to grip and they have snaped the bolt off flush with the head

im guessing its drill time!
how deep should i go?

Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:58 pm

should of heated it up first, tis a job for a machine shop now

Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:59 pm

worth looking at what the other studs look like that you have taken out, should be able to work out from them the depth they sit in the head, so go no deeper than the clean metal on the other studs at a guess?

Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:00 pm

get your self a decent set of easy outs, by decent I mean about £50, Snap-on or Rothenburger will be fine, you will have it out in under 5 mins.

Dont use heat on the head, its just not necessary and will probably cause more problems than a snapped stud!

Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:04 pm

get yourself a stud extracter set or 'easyout's' and a few quality drill bits

only cost a few quid and work great they have saved me a lot of messing about

Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:08 pm

This is what you need, but obviously a complete set!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Blue-point-Snapon ... 286.c0.m14

The problem with cheap sets is they don't include a drill guide so you drill the exact centre of the snapped off stud.
cheap sets also taper which is not a problem on larger studs/bolts but no good for M20 manifold studs!

Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:26 pm

Eh? Heating it up will make it worse. Don't forget...by heating something up you are EXPANDING it, as well as softening it!
If you heat the stud up, grip it and twist, you are guaranteed to snap it off shorter.

Ive seen people heat the head AROUND the stud, but I'd NEVER do that to one of my engines!

A stud extractor id deffo the way. Thats what they are made for!!!

If it does snap, then it can be helicoiled, which is as strong as new....Ive seen head bolt holes helicoiled and run silly milage.

Whatever you do, if it does snap, DON'T use easy outs.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:33 pm

law wrote:Eh? Heating it up will make it worse. Don't forget...by heating something up you are EXPANDING it, as well as softening it!
If you heat the stud up, grip it and twist, you are guaranteed to snap it off shorter.

Ive seen people heat the head AROUND the stud, but I'd NEVER do that to one of my engines!

A stud extractor id deffo the way. Thats what they are made for!!!

If it does snap, then it can be helicoiled, which is as strong as new....Ive seen head bolt holes helicoiled and run silly milage.

Whatever you do, if it does snap, DON'T use easy outs.

the stud has already snapped, the heat worked for me in form of welding so was just an idea, if heat is so bad why does everyone heat up siezed bolts elsewhere on cars

Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:37 pm

Bodger, the head is ally so wont take direct heat like steel does! It could cause internal/gasket problems I would certainly never get the gas axe on any engine component of mine.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:40 pm

tomson wrote:Bodger, the head is ally so wont take direct heat like steel does! It could cause internal/gasket problems I would certainly never get the gas axe on any engine component of mine.

my bad

Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:53 pm

bodger wrote: if heat is so bad why does everyone heat up siezed bolts elsewhere on cars

They don't! Its the nuts that get heated! Or whatever the bolt threads into.
Some things are safe to heat, but heads/blocks, I'd advise not to!

Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:54 pm

I started using screwfix easy outs and found them to be made of finest cheddar. Got some machine mart ones and it instantly did the trick but I drilled too far. I had been drilling a bit and then trying the original ones, drilling a bit more etc. but using rubbish easy outs just meant they went blunt and I drilled again. If I did it again which I wouldn't, I'd be straight down the local machine shop, I would jig the drill up somehow so it went in straight and I'd drill about 1cm, that's all I needed for the better easy out to do it's magic.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:57 pm

Trouble with them is if you DO snap one, its deffo game over. They are super toughened steel, and you'll melt many a drill but trying to drill it out!

Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:00 pm

Mine drilled absolutely fine, and came out with the proper easy out absolutely fine. In fact if it was rather too easy to drill through

Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:27 pm

I meant if you snap an easy out! The stud will drill ok, but if you snap an easyout in there, you'll struggle to drill it.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:34 pm

Oh yeah, sorry

, snap the easy out and just leave it in there. Actually if you snap one of the screwfix chocolate ones I suspect you wouldn't have a problem but if it's hard enough to be of any use then snapping it is massive fail indeed.

Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:44 pm

Elecblondie wrote: screwfix chocolate ones

Haha....just drop some ants or bugs in there! They'll eat it out in no-time!

Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:48 pm

i would also avoid easy outs used these at work and i think i have broken alot of them if it was so tight it sheared the stud then the easy out wont help

Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:52 pm

the last time i used easy outs was about 10 years ago on my r5 gt turbo!
the bleed nipple had snaped off in the brake caliper,i ended up with 1 snaped off in the hole and couldnt get it out so i ended up replacing the caliper,

what other options have i got?

Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:17 am

Take it to a machine shop! lol

Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:36 am

I wrote:you can always take it to a machine shop

I wrote: If I did it again which I wouldn't, I'd be straight down the local machine shop

I see a pattern developing. I whole heartedly agree with the above statement.

edit: couldn't stand it saying 'me wrote'

Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:02 pm

stonesie wrote:Slightly bigger nut welded over the thread?

Yep...+1

get a decent nut that fits over the knackered thread, then weld from the inside to the protruding part of the stud...the heat will help too, but a decent spanner will then get the thing out.

Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:04 am

A technique I've used successfully, is to drill the stud slightly off centre, with a small pilot drill, then use gradually larger drills, until it just breaks through on one side of the stud. You can then collapse the remains of the stud inwards into the hole you've drilled, and then tease it out with a couple of small screwdrivers.
The thread in the head will be damaged along one side, but not enough o stop a new stud fitting in and holding.

Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:21 pm

brian you have done it again!
used your method and it worked a treat,
stud is out,new one in,job done