20K TO SPEND

[sam325is]

When it comes down to it, its all about supply and demand. How many truely immaculate M3's and sports are left out there? nobody knows but i can assure you all its less and less each year...winter time each year must see alot of them off due to rust/ice.

People are pricing them at this level becuase people are buying them knowing that they are worth it...quite simple really. Most people(no offence) who say they will have to fall in price are dreaming becuase they arent...why would it happen? if they did fall in price a bit people would snap them up becuase they were a little cheaper and there is demand for them and then sellers would think oooooh i had better put my price up a little.... the prices falling isnt going to happen.

do some people here think the E30 is exempt to the laws of economics or something!

To compare cars to houses is just insane becuase for a start you dont need a mortgage and they arent prone to the same economic flaws as houses.

Cant see them loosing their value im afraid,and besides this guy wants a BMW thats not going to loose its value, so thats e46 m3 out of the question along with all the other newer cars mentioned above

rant over

[cecotto479]

You are assuming that economic conditions remain as positive as they have been over the last 5 years. M3s have moved away from the "Practical Classics" end of the market and more into the "Classic Cars" arena. At £5000, most people will be paying cash. At £20000 a good percentage will be borrowing some or all of that, one way or another.

Classic cars are luxury items. As money becomes tighter, people choose not to spend so much of their disposable income on luxury items. As the availability of borrowed money becomes more difficult and more expensive, less luxury items are bought. As people begin to feel the squeeze financially, luxury items are sold first to free up some cash.

All of these factors and more can move to deflate the market and those cars which are seen to be overvalued in the market place will reduce in value first and most significantly.

Where were you in 1990/91? I would not be buying an E30 M3 as an investment just now.

3 years ago, a good MGBGT would be £5000. Now, you will do well to get £3000. Why? Because the market took the view that they were overvalued. The MX5 was better value. I think that there are better value cars out there than the E30 M3 just now and with the looming economic faltering that seems inevitable, classic car values will probably suffer.

[DieselMeister]

Bloody hell - everyone on this board is tryingto make me feel poor! Either that or you've been hired by the Darling to raise confidence in the economy

I love M3s but I have to agree that they're less realistically priced than 5-10 years ago. Magazines talked them up as affordable buys; the value of M3s was depressed due to variuous things (I'd image the import Subarishi GTR craze played a role); the economy was good and loans were cheap.... the rest is history.

I'm sure there are a few box-arched M3s out there worth 20k but to be honest you'd have to really, really want a specific car to pay that. And if you did it would most certainly be a garage queen (even if you had unlimited funds, would you really want to tarnish such a fragile, finite resource as a minty motorsport special? Thought not.). They are rightly revered but you can get more of everything (speed, fun, sense of occasion, blah blah) for your money at the moment

You can still buy perfectly serviceable M3s for less than 10k. At 20k, a world of other machinery opens up to you and, in my opinion, it would take a blinkered fool (as opposed to a car enthusiast) not to consider some of the other options available. Great though the E30 is, there are plenty of other things (wheeled or otherwise) to enjoy in life

[gary]

Fezza 308 GTS. Thats what I'd spend mine on.

Boyd.....Be quiet for god sake you've just knocked £6k off my car with you mad rantings

I left that out of the list because they are climbing in price quite quickly and while £20000 would have got you one when we first discussed it before Christmas, you would now be lucky to get a good one for £20000.

If you're going to do it, I think sooner rather than later, because despite your description of "mad rantings", I do think that M3 prices are "overstated" currently and are due a wee bit of a reality check. The market will also want to restore a sensible gap between the Ferrari and the M3, so if the M3 stays still, the Ferrari must go up. I don't see that happening and I think the M3 might peg back a bit with the Ferrari climbing a bit. It's all chrystal ball stuff but that's my hunch.

Your newly restored car at what I think will be the top of the market (if you get your arse into gear) will be going on sale in the right condition at the right time, should you decide to go for it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, "Get rid. Get the 308."

Boyd i do agree with you to an extent on the price of M3's and have been keeping my eye on the 308 since our discussion at Christmas, and noticed a slight increase in the 308.

But trying to second guess the classic car market is like getting next weeks lottery numbers.

Just look at the late eighties early nighties and people were buying cars for millions and now those same cars are worth only a fraction of what they were then.

Its all smoke and mirrors. If someone offered me £20K for my Sport Evo when it's finished, which is not far off what it would be worth given todays market, then i would take it and consider

911, DB7 or 308

This is hard part for the author of this thread as he has asked what car for £20k and vey little depreciation.

But I don't buy my cars as an investment just as a toy.

[ShepsEvo3]

So what we saying? E30 M3 Sport Evo aint worth £20k, and a Ford Sierra RS500 is?

I never mentioned the RS500.

What I'm saying is that in the classic car market, in comparison to what else is available for the money, the E30 M3 is, in my opinion, currently overvalued.

I don't expect an owner - particularly one who has a car for sale - or an E30 M3 enthusiast to agree but I think Joe Bloggs the classic car buyer will think that there is better value available in the market than the E30 M3.

If Harry Fairbairn himself chapped my door and offered me a new M6 as a straight swap for my M635, I would chase him, but that doesn't mean my car's worth £90000, though any offers in that region would be given due consideration.

I never said you did refer to the RS500, I read the whole thread and came up with the post I did. If you look at the market, the E30 M3 is on par value wise with the Sierra Cosworth but is a MUCH better car. If we are looking for reasons for value, you only have to look at Motorsport as the M3 was the most successfull touring car - ever. Look how much the 3.0 CSL's are worth now.

Again, M6 and M635CSi, depends if you had the money to loose £40k in the M6. If you want to hang onto your money, I would keep the M635CSi. But then swopping one for the other, I suppose you wouldn't see a loss as the M635CSi isn't worth £90k.

[MickyDojoh]

id have a honda nsx personally. Ayrton Senna being the man responsible for its development

[Fushion_Julz]

You are assuming that economic conditions remain as positive as they have been over the last 5 years. M3s have moved away from the "Practical Classics" end of the market and more into the "Classic Cars" arena. At £5000, most people will be paying cash. At £20000 a good percentage will be borrowing some or all of that, one way or another.

Classic cars are luxury items. As money becomes tighter, people choose not to spend so much of their disposable income on luxury items. As the availability of borrowed money becomes more difficult and more expensive, less luxury items are bought. As people begin to feel the squeeze financially, luxury items are sold first to free up some cash.

All of these factors and more can move to deflate the market and those cars which are seen to be overvalued in the market place will reduce in value first and most significantly.

Where were you in 1990/91? I would not be buying an E30 M3 as an investment just now.

3 years ago, a good MGBGT would be £5000. Now, you will do well to get £3000. Why? Because the market took the view that they were overvalued. The MX5 was better value. I think that there are better value cars out there than the E30 M3 just now and with the looming economic faltering that seems inevitable, classic car values will probably suffer.

Your argument is slightly flawed (IMHO)...
1. The reason the E30 M3 is valued as it is is because it has "iconic" status...You can't remove that, it is intrinsic to the history of motoring.
2. Unlike the MGB, the E30 M3 was only made for a few years and in limited numbers...True, the standard car is not (yet) worth £20K, but the limited edition Evos and Cecottos, etc, are worth close to, if not more in the case of the Evo Sport.
3. Classic car prices (like most prices) are related to what people will pay...If people are *paying* £20K for a decent Evo Sport or Ravaglia, then they may be valued at less (by the popular press), but the current owners will still be getting their asking price. You are correct that any economic downturn could affect the car market, but that applies across the board: not just to E30 M3s!

[sam325is]

The e30 m3 is an inelastic product, this is becuase there is no substitute for it. meaning that a raise in price has little effect on demand, this is what we are seeing on the e30 M3 and sports.

As for past years economics i would say it has been far from positve with REAL interest rates at their highest point in 30-40 years and people getting mortgages and loans....literally murdering thier bank accounts yet e30 m3 prices have still been rising.

There are wealthy people out there who are involved in calssics and will pay 15-20k for a classic m3.... credit crunches dont hit these people and they the people most likely to spend that much on a car.... anyone who needs a loan to buy a car that expensive is dreaming as they need to take maintaince into account as well!

E30' m3' arent the run of the mill new sports car...they are in a niche in the market and thats why they take a long time to sell as they are not like the average car on the fourcourt and the people who buy a 20K M3 arent the average mrotgage holder with 2.4 children.

[cecotto479]

My point about the M6/M635 was that there is no point in asking an enthusiastic owner's opinion on value. The cars I keep aren't bought as investments. They are kept because I want to keep them. Christ you only need to read the article linked in my sig to see that.

There is no doubt that the current value of a Sport Evo is in the £20000 region.

I think that's more than it is worth in comparison to what else is available on the market.

If the market falls, the first hit and hardest hit will be the cars where the market sees them as overstated. It's the same in any market, shares, houses, whatever.

Time will tell, but my opinion is that the current prices are unsustainable.

Even Gary would cash in his Sport Evo and buy something else - hopefully with a more restrained interior.

M635CSi for sale - offers around £90000. PM me for details.

[Andyboy]

Is an E30 Sport Evo worth twice as much as a standard one? Not really, no. They certainly aren't twice as good. But cold logic means nothing. That's why a 1973 2.4S 911 is worth £40k and a slightly fster 2.7RS is worth three times that. That standard RS500 wasn't reckoned to be as nice a car as the standard Sierra Cosworth but that badge and that racing pedigree sells it.

It's called 'supply and demand', a simple formulae that's been around forever. An E28 M5 isn't worth 20 grand because nobody wants one badly enough. Same with the M635CSi, examples of which can still be found festering on Ebay for £2500 in the usual condition.

Prices for iconic classic cars will not drop. Despite this recession, there will always be someone with 20 grand for a Sport Evo. Compared to what new cars cost, 20 grand is no big deal. To make 20g tho, a Sport Evo has to be a nice example with only minimal restoration work, no accidents and a good history.......such examples are very rare now.

[david106]

I'd buy a vw transporter t5 2.5 tdi 174 bhp sportline and chip it

[BMracing]

id have a honda nsx personally. Ayrton Senna being the man responsible for its development

Oooh yeah forgot about that, one of my all time favourites!

[Greeny]

E39 M5 and have a few grand left over for the fuel bills

[webbyv7slipperwagon]

Great input guys, but i'm even more confused now. Went to look at a TVR 350 yesterday (in a moment of madness) it had 23000 miles on it and it looked shagged. windows not fitting properly, seat coming of the subframe etc... looked at another to make sure (at a dealers) same crap. So i think it's defo on the german front for me. Was easier buying my B32 Touring, lol.

[euan]

i would get a 5 litre m5 for around 12k and pocket the balance for running costs and private plate

[wiledw]

E46 M3 i know certain people don't consider them to be 'cool' cars but for 20K you could get a high spec resonably low mileage car which has a good boot and will scare the shit out of you if you want.

[kipper]

ive had had 20k to spend on a car my lovley wife would slap me, put it to the mortgage and leave me with the change to play with lol ....... i love her though lol. .. ive i had the choice though it would be a e46 m3 if i could find one at right price and colour

[miniblob]

Can't be arsed to read the whole thread - but good to see someone mention an 850CSi!!!!!!

Go and test drive a nice 850CSi - you'll probably buy it - and you'll have plenty of change to run it with and it shouldn't lose any value!! Get an agreed value insurance policy though (just in case the worst happens ).

I've never driven or been in anything else like it yet - especially for this kind of money!! I will deffo own another one!!!

Only other thing I would pick is a Ferrari 456 - but they're still at about £30k for a bargain basement one!!

[barryj]

For about £20k I will sell you this................................................if you were holding my kids to ransome!

[barryj]

or this is yours for a little less.................................
our


Or for a little more, although you have to ask why? this is yours

[Andyboy]

6 Series Coupes are lovely things. I had an Auto 630i Sport from BMW a while back and it was such a nice thing. I can't stand the Convertible with that pig ugly hood but the Coupe looks great - but I'm a fan of Bangle stuff anyway. It feels special in a way an E46 M3 doesn't and it goes surprisingly well.

850CSi's have held their value well. A really mint one with 60-70k and proper history is still £15-20'000 if you can find one.

[Karan]

how about the m5 engined e30 m3 hartge built , very rare but it will holds its value and will be very fast.

I believe its called the h36 and if i had to buy an old bmw for 20k that is the 1

I have been doing a search also the Alpina spec E30 M3 but very illusive

you an buy my m5 engined turd if you want

[webbyv7slipperwagon]

For about £20k I will sell you this................................................if you were holding my kids to ransome!

Are you a trader?

[patrick85]

If I had 20k I couldn't just buy one car, I'd have to get three or four different cars to keep me from getting bored.

[tomtomtom]

For about £20k I will sell you this................................................if you were holding my kids to ransome!

thats a beaut! 1981 turbo?