Weichers cage is in.

[Weeman]

Cage had been sat waiting to go in for a month or two now, finally gave the car to the welder last week, and its finished and ready.

Not without a few problems, firstly the sunroof fot in the way, I didn't want the pain of taking it out, so the cage struggled to get past it, this resulted in the cage no longer being a bolt in, and being welded in, to save the extra cm or so, the bolt in plate gave.









Next was the harness issue, I'd requested a bar across the rear cross, to mount them too, the welder outfits disabled cars as a career, and came up with a ingenious solution, although generally its not reccomened, he's fixed a steel bar across the rear bulkhead, and its eyelets are welded in place and the whole thing secured with no less than about 10 high strength bolts, He assures me it wont budge, and looking at the way he's engineered it i have to agree.

[Weeman]

[northloop]

What's that silly sun visor you have on the front? Cant quite see it in the pictures

[Weeman]

*cough* this one???

[northloop]

Oh yes, that will be the one

[UweM3]

Next was the harness issue, I'd requested a bar across the rear cross, to mount them too, the welder outfits disabled cars as a career, and came up with a ingenious solution, although generally its not reccomened, he's fixed a steel bar across the rear bulkhead, and its eyelets are welded in place and the whole thing secured with no less than about 10 high strength bolts, He assures me it wont budge, and looking at the way he's engineered it i have to agree.

outch! I would not passenger your car with that.

[Weeman]

ahhhh ok I can still weld a bar onto the cage, thought this quick fix might of still been strong enough

Would it help at all, If that bar was welded onto the rear???

[agreen]

might is not a word i like hearing when my saftey is involved dude

good luck getting a harness bar

[Weeman]

Well, it wont be driven in anger for a while, so I still have time to sort out a proper bar, if this set up is so dangerous

[agreen]

if this set up is so dangerous

no need to get arsey dude just trying to help maybe take a look at the sparco harnessbars

ps nice steering wheel i want it !!!

[Weeman]

Sorry dude, I wasn't being arsey, but It could read like that, LOL I'm really happy to have your input, as I was unsure myself as I know that it aint reccomended to mount em there. I'll have a look at those bars now, thanks dude

[TBR]

I dont think he was being arsey, someone care to explain why its a bad setup?

Might be a bit more useful than "Ouch"

[agreen]

someone care to explain why its a bad setup?

i will try Uwe really is man to talk to . . .

well i have a really bad picture of my cage



this cage has harness bar in built which means the harness will be mounted safley and securley to a study structual part of the car

not a thin ally sheet secured with bolts and what looks like a not very good fit

hth

[agreen]

ps i think there is goin to a group buy on the harness bars soon

weeman

[Weeman]

Thats what i'd originally asked for, and can have added later if I have too. Is there fors and againsts of having the harnesses secured too closely to the seat, or does it not really matter.

I didn't realise that part of the car that the steel thingy is bolted too is ally, will have to have a think lol

[Weeman]

ps i think there is goin to a group buy on the harness bars soon

weeman

would it go passed the cage dude??

[northloop]

I'm no structural expert, infact i'm not an expert at anything, but thats a different story Harness bolts fitted to the floor under the seat for instance are eye bolts in small square plates welded to the floor. I'm not convinced that is much different than what Weeman has, other than it isnt welded? Surely the integrity of the eye bolt in both these circumstances is only as strong as the thinest part it's connected too?

As a side note I remember when we were tying my cage to the body and thinking of beefing up the fillets. They were around 2mm thick and felt flimsy. We consulted the experts and they said why bother. You are tying it to a body made of 2mm so simply moving the issue elsewhere.

[agreen]

dunno

[Weeman]

It wouldn't take long to weld that plate onto the top, aswell as the bolts.

[agreen]

you could weld all the lines you like or add more bolts but the fixing is only going to be as strong as what it is mounted to in your case a thin aluminium divided / parcel shelf if you will

hth as i say someone else view may help you decide

[TBR]

Its pressed steel, not that it makes any difference.
What looks ok to some clearly isnt to others, weeman we'll have to get back to the drawing board.

[Weeman]

Ahh ok, I thought it was the same material that the cage is welded too, therefore it would of been strong enough, especially on the ridge there between seat back and parcel shelf. I'm a techno retard so I dont have that much idea on all these things

[agreen]

sorry bout the confusion in the material but the point is the same

you could weld a bar in the rear cross for the harnesses

[schuey]

I think that harness bar setup will be fine,although not as good as one built in to the cage the position its in will be more than strong enough in a decent crash,dont forget the rear of the cage is resting on the inner arch! not the strongest part of an E30,any rot around there and the cage will go straight through when the car rolls(sorry,if it rolls!!!) I once hit a snowdrift against a grass bank at low speed(about 20 mph) head on,that was enough to pull the harness/eyebolt and plate around a standard seatbelt mount clean out of the shell,resulting in me clouting the steering wheel! No damage done but a lesson in where not to mount a harness!

[agent006]

[quote="Weeman"]Is there fors and againsts of having the harnesses secured too closely to the seat, or does it not really matter. [/quote]

Closer the better. If you look at the current WRC cars, the bar is almost touching teh back of the seat. Their reasoning being that the longer harness you have the more capability it has to stretch on impact.

As for the mounting of your belts. I have the same and am distinctly uncomfortable with it. The rear shelf isn't really strong enough to mount belts to, but mounting down low onto the rear seat mounts has just as many disadvantages. Your bolted solution is better than most but won't stop it ripping the entire parcel shelf assembly out in a big smash. I've got an order in for a sparco harness bar while i get a cage sourced.
Still, i suspect the rear shelf mounting 4 point is still a lot safer than the standard 3 point.

[salami]

i have harness bars but eye bolt harnesses, can i mount the eye bolts in the rear standard seat belt holes then go up over the top of the harness bars on my cage and to my seat the theory i have is that it is then pulling up(ish) so would act more like they were designed?? if not can i cut the clip off and restich around my h-bars

[agreen]

no buy new harnesses - proper ones

[northloop]

I'm not sure you want to be doing any re -stitching on a seat belt

[schuey]

You can usually unthread the harnesses from the buckle that goes to the eyelet and make them work on a bar. What are these sparco bars??????

[agent006]

What are these sparco bars

See the end of this thread:

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ic&t=90327

[UweM3]

ok more "ouch". First I would never attach anything to 1mm sheetmetal. Second I am not happy with the position of the eyelets. Imagine you pull in the direction of the harness, they eyelet as shown will act like a lever and just twist the thing out of the parcel shelf. Third, the welds on the rear wheel arch doesn't inspire me either.
I don't want to sound rude or harsh, it just worries me what some "specialists" create.

[Weeman]

Its not a specalist, he's not a motorsport preparer, he's a welder, and despite me asking for a bar on the cross, he knocked this up. he charged me 125 euros for the lot as he's a friend, so I'm not dissapointed, yes its not the greatest job in the world, but I'm not biulding a DTM car here, I'm biulding a road legal car that gets used on the Nordscheife, maybe some peoples cars on here are perfect in everyway, but I dont have the time, nor money to spend a fortune on it, plus I have a new golf gti that I use every day so this will be driven very occasionally. I wanted some protection and despite your concerns about the welds I'm sure it offers that.

Theres plenty of people that run trackcars and DRT's without the cage etc, I'd rather have something than nothing at all. This is my first track car and e30, and I'm learning as I go along, and trying to keep it as low cost as possible, while still making it safer than it would of been.

The larger plates are missing as it was suppose to be a bolt in cage, and there wasn't room to clear the sunroof with those on, But should I of done that, no doubt someone would of complained that bolt in's aren't good enough. Its my hobby, when I ever have enough cash to do the job properly i will, until then the missus still wants to go to new york and the caribean on holiday, so I have to keep to my budget.

I've listened to what everyones said and i value the input, I WILL be getting bars welded onto the cage for the harnesses, I'm not going to risk my and my passengers safety, for something I can simply unbolt and remove anyway. The part in question is not in doubt, its the car beneath it thats the weak point, and he wasn't to know that without the encyclopedic knowledge that some people have.

Thanks for the input everyone.

[salami]

I'm not sure you want to be doing any re -stitching on a seat belt

how do you normally fit harness bar belts can i not cut off the clip and use what is normally used??

[northloop]

Harness bar compatable belts come with the appropriate clip on them so they can be adjusted in position correctly.

[salami]

Harness bar compatable belts come with the appropriate clip on them so they can be adjusted in position correctly.

cheers
rally nuts here i come!!