Another 2.8 build.

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Phatz
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:06 pm

This is my 1988 325i Sport.

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For a while now I've been contemplating an engine conversion for her. I had thought of dropping an M30 in, but in the end I decided to go for the 2.8 conversion as it involves less overall work and I like the idea of a standard looking engine but with more grunt.

I'll admit to having very limited mechanical experience, so I expect this conversion to take quite a while. For those of you on here that seem to have been born in M20s, any advice or guidance you may have will be much appreciated. I will definately be learning a lot as I go with this one.

I have however, done a fare bit of tinkering with M20s. My Dad has a 325i Touring and last year we fitted a new engine into it as the old one had a cracked head. As a result of this, I've had a spare bottom end sitting in the garage for a while now and I will be using this to develop a fully rebuilt engine with the M52 B28 crank (which I also have) and 130mm con rods (which I don't yet have). I also need to get the spacer machined for me as I don't have the facilities for this kind of task myself.

Anyway, my new equipment arrived yesterday so I was able to get underway and strip down the block in the afternoon.

New hoist and stand being used for first time.
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Me looking a bit confused with the sump off. Lots of horrible old oil/mayonaise present from old cracked head. :roll:
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Using a similar method to Jazzman to get the front pully off. Crank bolt came off fairly easily too I noticed.
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Soon the block was pretty much stripped.....
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And the all the bits laid out.
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Next tasks are to get the block cleaned and to source some 130mm rods so that I can do some test fitting. I have sat the M52 crank in position and it does move without any obstruction.

Now for my stupid amatuer mechanic questions..... :o:

- I don't understand how to identify the M52 crank by measuring from one main bearing center line to another (or something). I'm aware that I'm looking for 84mm. Jazzman, I know you told me to do this but I'm unsure of where to measure from and to exactly.

- I think the block could do with a re-bore as I can't see any cross-hatch honing marks on the bores anymore, is that a correct assumption?

At the moment I will be setting about getting various parts cleaned up and then deciding what to do with block, crank and rods etc... in terms of machining work.

Cheers
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The Sport - Gone to a new home to be slowly brought back to life :)
daimlerman
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:20 pm

The 'proper' way to check for bore wear is to use a piston ring.Place it square in the bore top,middle and bottom and measure the gap in the ring.Any measurable difference and you need a rebore and new pistons.... :cry: no measurable difference and you need a hone.Good luck with your build,I shall watch with interest.
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Phatz
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:25 pm

Right, thanks for that daimlerman. I'll check that out tonght.

Cheers
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JazzMan
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:33 pm

Nice one, will keep looking out for your progress as well. Mines slowed up a bit at the moment! :)
Phatz
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:35 pm

Why is that mate?
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JazzMan
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:40 pm

Phatz wrote:Why is that mate?
Knackered from work and there seems to be some kind of bug that taking everyone I know out (including me!) It's take me 3 days so far on and off to machine the spacer! The other thing I want to do is do the maths on the compression ratio and HG thickness first (lack of plasticine is holding me up :lol: )
Phatz
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:44 pm

Yeah, there seems to be bugs going around all the time these days. Hope you get beter soon and able to crack on with things.

Must admit its been helping reading up on your thread for this conversion, so just make sure you keep ahead of me.... which is very likely anyway. :D

Cheers mate
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ed325i
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:49 pm

I also need to get the spacer machined for me
This may help.

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DanThe
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:56 pm

Phatz wrote:Yeah, there seems to be bugs going around all the time these days.
I blame immigration.....

Nice to see more 2.8's popping up 8)
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:11 pm

the crank you sold me should still be making an appearance soon dan, had a few things on my plate what with the new business but im determined to get this thing on the move, should be a good opportunity to get that damn gearbox whine sorted too 8)

should be a good year for 2.8s :cool:
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DanThe
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:16 pm

beardymat wrote: should be a good year for 2.8s :cool:
Its looking that way! :D

My piston rings will be here in 2 weeks time, then its just a case of throwing it all together :woohoo:
Phatz
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:48 pm

Quick update:

Took the block to be steam cleaned this afternoon and for £15 odd quid it really got all the old crap/oil/sludge that was sitting on and inside it. Then gave it a quick dry and kept the shiny parts oily to avoid rust. :) Will be spending quite a while smoothing the outer surfaces of the block and then probably prime and spray in either gloss or satin black.

Ed 325i, that diagram is very useful indeed.... cheers.

Looks like we'll plenty of 2.8s going head to head at the pod too this summer huh? winkeye .... thats if mines done by then! :?
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beardymat
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:34 pm

mmmmmmm 2.8 m20 pod shootout!!!

its got a ring to it hasnt it :D
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Rik178m
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:41 pm

Can we get a sticky for 2.8 builds like the 2.7 sticky thats just been put up? Anyone? :cool:
DanThe
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:58 pm

beardymat wrote:mmmmmmm 2.8 m20 pod shootout!!!

its got a ring to it hasnt it :D
Whats up Mat, dont you fancy a run alongside a twin cam 2.8? winkeye
beardymat
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:12 pm

DanThe wrote:
beardymat wrote:mmmmmmm 2.8 m20 pod shootout!!!

its got a ring to it hasnt it :D
Whats up Mat, dont you fancy a run alongside a twin cam 2.8? winkeye
nah! im a bad looser,lol

a sticky would be good idea especially detailing the right and wrong cranks and what comp ratios people get etc.
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jaffro
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:15 pm

us m30s will feel left out lol :P
DanThe
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:18 pm

Left out or left behind winkeye
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Post Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:23 pm

both lol il be to scared to thrash it :o:
JazzMan
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:00 am

beardymat wrote:mmmmmmm 2.8 m20 pod shootout!!!

its got a ring to it hasnt it :D
I might have a slight weight advantage with 850Kg car (on the plus side I make up for the loss in weight :lol: )
Phatz
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:26 pm

Evening all... any ideas on that measurement that I asked about at the beginning of this thread on the crank? I'm pretty sure what I have is an M52 b28, but I just wanna be sure.

Cheers
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JazzMan
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:36 pm

This how you do it:

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:)
Phatz
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Post Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:04 pm

JazzMan, thanks for that. Of course that makes sense as its the throw you are measuring, hence the measurment should be longer than the M20 crank blah blah.... cheers mate. Lesson learnt!
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Andyboy
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Post Sat Jan 19, 2008 5:34 pm

Or just look for 84 (stroke) cast into one of the crank webs. Those look like early 9.75:1 CR pistons with the longer skirts - they will probably need machining down 12mm.
Phatz
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:59 pm

It looks as though I've managed to source a set of M20 b20 con-rods from a fellow zoner, so while I wait for those to arrive I have been using part of this weekend to give the bare engine block a good clean. I've also spent some time cleaning various engine components.

A big end cap covered in oil and muck
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Cleans up nicely with a bit of effort
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I've been using "Just Orange" degreaser that Jazzman mentioned and it really is great stuff and smells nice too. :)

Andyboy, here is a close up of one of the pistons (yet to be cleaned)
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Are this the long skirt early ones as you mentioned? I had thought they were the later type as the came out of a 1990 Touring, but you will know better than me as I've never compared the two. How can I identify one from the other (i.e, what dimensions/measurements)?

Cheers
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Andyboy
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:07 pm

They are later ones, but looked like golden oldies in the first pic.

Check and see what age the engine is - look for some numbers on the block at the top near the head gasket.
Phatz
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:14 pm

There is a date - 20 05 88.... would this be the date that the block was cast?
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ed325i
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:51 pm

Dont know what bearings you are going to use but I have been told to use m50 mains m21 (324td) big ends.
Phatz
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:28 pm

Is that specific to the conversion I am doing? Were you told why exactly?

Cheers
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JazzMan
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:34 pm

I was planning on using M20 shells, any reason why we should use other ones?
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:46 pm

Shell material changes dependand on what the crank is constructed from

I believe this is only an issue if using a TD forged unit as the others are all cast iirc.

M52 cranks do seem to be coated, possibly tufrided from the factory, certainly a bluey tinge to them
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:57 pm

TD shells are made to run against a nitrided steel crank. M52 cranks are cast iron. I would use standard M20 shells, no reason to use anything else. I used M52 mains and ends on Adams engine, and filed off the extra locating tang on the mains. This is because the short engine the crank came from was brand new and never run (not bad for £30!) albeit with a damaged block. The shells were as new so I used them.

20-5-88 is indeed the date the block was cast.
Phatz
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:05 pm

I'm lead to believe that many are the same part numbers.... correct?

There is definately a blue tinge to the webs of my M52 crank Ant, is that what you meant?
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ed325i
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:35 pm

Phatz wrote:Is that specific to the conversion I am doing? Were you told why exactly?

Cheers
Read here :? >> http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ht=bearing

I will just use m20 ones now.
Phatz
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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:50 pm

hmmm, strange. :? Think I will go for m20 ones too as this seems to be the current recommendation.
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