wideband options

[hoshy]

Hey fellas,

I've got Megasquirt running the car now but no o2 sensor. I'm probably gonna go the wideband route. What are the options

I've heard of the lc-1 and the diy wb.

I'm guessing it's basically the same sensor and just build vs. buy for the controller electronics?

Apart from the two mentioned are there any other ready made or kit/project options?

Hope everyone had a nice christmas and is warming up for a good session tonight

Ash

[fowler]

talk to Ant Innovate is a good one to use i think as a seperate to the M/S

[e30_Turbo]

Innovate LC-1 with controller is what you need, plug and play on MS, just don't change the values on the WB controller as MS has "LC-1 default settings" as standard.

I have a complete LC-1 and controller which was removed after it started to play up, you more than welcome to see if you can use/fix it. IIRC it wasn't reading all the time but that was the same time the head/block wasn't sealing well so it may have been due to water/steam/oil that was being added into the mix at the time. I bought a new unit and sensor minus all the other bits for about £150, if you want the company details let me know.

Make sure you use the LATEST instructions for wiring and check wether you have a six or seven wire sensor as the wiring is different.

Also speak to Alex about his WB sensor & dispaly as he has the EGT option on that, MS needs some more bits for EGT's.

HTH, Mark.

[Demlotcrew]

Im waiting for the new version of this to come out. R800

http://shop.edoperformance.co.uk/r500-d ... -6772.html

Andrew

[Turbo-Brown]

Yeah, the VEMS afreshtiny (think that's what it's called) is pretty good once you can get your head around programming the output voltage range in hex

[hoshy]

Cool cheers guys. Well, Alex I'll chat to you this weekend anyway.

Andrew, cheers for the link and Mark - I might have a tinker with your old on if you think it's rescueable, gimme a shout on pm or msn and we'll sort something out.

[Demlotcrew]

No problem Hoshy, the R800 will be very powerful and will have the exact same sensor as all the innovate range and the same chipset but with more features and inputs such as engine temp, throttle angle, rpm, knock, ETG, road speed etc etc so its a very powerful data logging device to aid with tunning the EMS.

So for a few more quid you get something that can not only run a wide band but can also alert you in the event of anything going wrong etc.

HTH

Andrew

[hoshy]

The R800 is definitely a cool cool tool but probably a bit much for my current needs.

[Templ8e30]

I'm using the Innovate LC-1, brilliant bit of kit.

I'm using the second output to run an AFR guage as well.

Cheers,

Iain T

[Demlotcrew]

I dont see the point of a AFR gauge, there is nothing you can use one for on day to day driving, yes when you are mapping for the first time then the use of a gauge can be beneficial but once the mapping is done i can think of lots of other gauges i can use instead.

An ETG gauge is more fitting as a warning gauge than a AFR one.

Andrew

[hoshy]

I think an AFR gauge is great for daily driving - more effective than the swing-o-meter to see when you're really in the eco / cruise AFR range of your map

[Demlotcrew]

Im not sure if that makes sense, why over complicate something as simple as fuel consumption when you already have a telltale unless you have an oil temp gauge in there like an M3? The eco gauge in our cars works from the injector duty cycle so is accurate.

Or does going to MS lose you this feature?

Andrew

[Ant]

no MPG O meter dude, because the output is conditioned by the stock motronic there's no real way to fiddle an input to the unit, I had a play on mine a while back and got it to move, but it was far from accurate.

iirc the info is calculated from the inj PWM so the data must come from the inj FETs in the stock ECU, then processed for use, one for perhaps gunni to comment further on ?

have you scoped the output Andrew ?? ( edit: I think you have oil temp in any case.. )

[Demlotcrew]

Lol Ant i have no idea what PWM or FETs are

No ive not scoped the output but i could if need be?

Andrew

[Ant]

might be worth a peek if you get the chance dude, I have no 'scope anymore , its FUBAR

[Turbo-Brown]

There's a guy on the e30tech who made a controller for the "doom-gauge" turning it into a boost gauge. Presumably if he can do that it should be possible to get anything to talk to the gauge

[hoshy]

Ant, I should have known you would have had a bash at the swingometer. It's on my list of things to do after the MS is mapped and settled in etc.

I've got an old scope if you need. nothing fancy - or have you seen at the picotech automotive kit? comes with current clamps, data logging and all the other goodies. http://www.picotech.com/auto/

What are your thought on WB? stick to LC-1?

Andrew, as ant says - no eco swingometer for me so the afr gauge could be of use. FETs are transistors and PWM is just a square wave, in injector terms the high the frequency of the wave the higher the duty cycle. 12v is 0% and 0v(ground) is 100%

[hoshy]

There's a guy on the e30tech who made a controller for the "doom-gauge" turning it into a boost gauge. Presumably if he can do that it should be possible to get anything to talk to the gauge

I know it's PWM, if it's 5v I can datalog it too. There's probably lots of cool uses.

I suppose you could even have it switchable between various functions

[tim_s]

Is it just me who doesn't get on with the LC1 then? Every time I leave the car for a while it goes out of calibration, for instance in Nov on the rollers it was reading 11.5:1 or so (at downpipe) when the dastek (up the zaust) was reading 13:1. Needed a re-tune because of this, but gained some horsies as a result I took the sensor out, cleaned it, and did a full calibration before my last sesh on the rollers in dec, then it tallied with paul's dastek AFR gauge, just about (gave about 12.6:1 where the dastek gave 13:1 - i spose sensor location can account for that), yet when I had my laptop hooked up a wk or so ago it was giving 11.5:1 on WOT again. stupid thing. i'm sure if i recalibrate it again it will start behaving again. It performs better nearer stoich though.

[hoshy]

I've heard of problems with the LM-1 which is the same (bosch?) sensor. But from what I heard they are location related.

Where abouts have you got yours plumbed in Tim?

[tim_s]

It's not the location, the sensor just becomes less accurate over time and needs regular calibration, which is a pita. its in the standard location in the downpipe.

[hoshy]

weird. you heard that it's a common problem?

that would be a right fuck up if using the afr tables.

[e30_Turbo]

It's not the location, the sensor just becomes less accurate over time and needs regular calibration, which is a pita. its in the standard location in the downpipe.

The LC-1 should need a recalibration every few months, if it's needing more I'd suggest something else wasn't quite right.

From my own experiance I'd advise anyone installing one of these to use the best available wiring, best earth and ensure all the wires are secured, taped and check there is no "noise" on either the feed or the earth. The feed must be seperate and again very well installed.

I spent months wondering why mine would go funny for no reason, ended up doing all of the above to get a consistent and reliable reading from it.

Innovate themselves are very good and helpful, I've had an offer to take a look at my old one but it's well out of warrenty now, so it's off to Hoshy for him to play with.

Mark.

[hoshy]

Didn't realise these things need constant recalibration. What is involved in the recal?

[e30_Turbo]

It's as easy as removing the sensor to free air and pressing a button

If the engines not been run for 12hrs+ you could just press the recal button, just need to ensure it's only seeing fresh air.

PM me your addy then and I'll go dig out the WB from the garage.

Mark.

[hoshy]

pm sent mate -cheers

[tim_s]

mb I need to investigate it further, I'm just not that impressed. I reckon it's probably because I do a load more miles than most, so it goes out of calibration quicker for me. It's grounded to the battery etc, think it just goes out of calibration quickly. It still reads stoich correctly ish i reckon, it's just the 'how rich' or 'how lean' bit that's a bit naff.

[e30_Turbo]

mb I need to investigate it further, I'm just not that impressed. I reckon it's probably because I do a load more miles than most, so it goes out of calibration quicker for me. It's grounded to the battery etc, think it just goes out of calibration quickly. It still reads stoich correctly ish i reckon, it's just the 'how rich' or 'how lean' bit that's a bit naff.

the only thing I can think of is how the sensor is installed, what o'clock is it at? They mention nothing less than 9 and more than 3, mines at 2 due to the strut brace getting in the way, previously it was at 12.

The only other thing is the heat sheilding issue but as I run without I'm sure the issue would have arisen my end by now, no heat issues to report as yet.

Wiring and decent connections sorted all the noise and fluctuations out for me, quick tip, when the afr's flick about from 9-1 to 20-1 then cut out intermitantley, you've blown the head gaket found that one out the hard way last time Seems they can't read oil and water content

[tim_s]

haha, oops! My sensor is roughly horizontal, prob with the sensor pointing down a little bit. never mind mate, i've come to terms with it going 'off' a bit - not that worried anymore as just don't use it on WOT as it's been setup on the rollers, and is near enough for everything else.