Anyone with knowledge of ICE

[1an]

im in need of some information regarding the stereo in my car, ive decided that i want to amp all of my speakers to be able to get the best of them.

up front i have some MTX audio thunder components, 220w max and 55w rms at 4ohms, they sound good as they are but i have been advised that by amping them they would sound even better,

iin the rear shelf i have some MB quartz EKA 113 coaxle speakers, with a power handling of 35-80w,

now i need soem information regarding what amplifiers would be need in terms of rms power etc,

i will be getting a new headunit aswell so buying a headunit with 3 preamp-outs (front, rear, sub) i already have a fusion powerplant sub package i the car already.

would i be better of having 2x 2channel amps so i have more control over the speakers or 1x 4 channel amp to do all 4 of the speakers, or even 1x 2 channel amp for the rears and one 4 channel amp for the fronts so that i can take away the crossovers?

cheers ian

[secondtimelucky]

Hi Ian, an often asked question but what sort of sound are you after? max volume or best quality? For the best quality get a 4ch amp with 50-60 watts rms per channel, so that all speakers recieve the same signal at the same power. For volume a 50wat/ch two channel for the fronts and a 80watch/ch two hannel for the rears. Using two amps on the front wont bring any benefits as the crossover will have been designed specigically for those speakers. HTH good luck with your system

[1an]

i basically i want a loud and clear set-up, so which is best 2 x 2 channel amps so i can set the front and back speakers up independantly?

[aceraf]

Do you have any tweeters?

[1an]

yes, my MTX speakers consist of a cross over, speaker, and a tweater, hence why i asked about running a 4 channel amp on the fornt and doing away with the crossover.

[siddiqi1]

1an,

The problem really isnt the equipment and its availbilty, but the time patience and money needed to install it to be honest.

From what ive read, i assume you are after some clarity in terms of vocal, and a little mid range bass. Nothing that wil cost you, but as im sure you're aware, the more you pay the more quality of the sound.

Firstly, do you have crossovers, these are separate units for any of the speakers, if so how many? this will determine whether you need an amp with a built in crossover or without, naturally price varies with the added features.

My personal suggestion is that you get a 4 channel amp, a very good suggestion here Click here. Im biased as i have a In phase install, however the reason i suggest this is so that you can get an understnading of all the functions.

If you dont have 4 crossovers, or prefer extensive control over the sound, then its best to get a 4 channel amp with High-Pass Crossovers (HP) and Low Pass Crossovers (LP). the HP is for cutting the bass out and allowing more vocal through the speakers....efectively allowing you to hear more crystal sound without distortion.

The LP allows you to tune how much bass you would like the speakrs to play back, so allowing you to feel so thump but not so much that it begins to distort and you have to turn the volume down.

The added adv of a 4 channel amp is that everything you need is in one location, your front and rear pre outs will be plugged into this one amp, and its endlessely tuneable and les wiring.

It doesnt matter if you get two amps or one, just make sure that they have HP and LP crossovers, and make sure they are adjustable HP and LP, not just a switch, thats useless to you.

With regards to power, the speakers you have at the moment will surprise you, when you tune them right, the tweeting power (vocal) will be shocking, as you dont need these speakers to play any bass, as you have a sub to do that!

Hope this helps

Regards

Saboor

[aceraf]

I wouldn't amp the tweeters...keep them off the head-unit.

I'd also get another set of tweeters in the rear....they'll make a massive difference.

I would definitely keep all the speakers off 1 amp (i.e. 4-channel amp) if possible.

[1an]

Saboor, the only cross overs i have are the ones which are on my front component speakers at the moment,

the inpahse amp you recomend how much would i be lookibng at for one of those?

so what your saying is that the preout from the headunit for the front speakers plug into the amp along with a sepearate preout wire that plugs into the same amp for the rear speakers so i am able to adjust each speaker individually?

[siddiqi1]

This is going to get confusing very quickly now.lol

Firstly, i suggest you wire the tweeters and mids atthe front through the crossovers, the INPUT for the crossovers will then come from the AMP(s) for the front. Nothing to confusing about that, though istill stand by my point that you should purchase an amp with both HP and LP crossovers for both front and rear.

so what your saying is that the preout from the headunit for the front speakers plug into the amp along with a sepearate preout wire that plugs into the same amp for the rear speakers so i am able to adjust each speaker individually?

Because you are purchasing a headunit with FRONT/REAR/SUB preouts, you will be able to adjust every speaker individualy so long as you have them all wired correctly, i.e. fronts to fronts..rears to rear and sub to sub. Though tbh i dont see why you would really need to adjust the front or rear from theh eadunit, need....the only thing you really need to adjust is the sub to so that you can put the volume up on it or down.

The amp is priced at appx 120 i think, though therei s no need to get one of those, but to same spec......that is everything i beleive you need in terms of power & freq. adjustabillty.

Look for an amp of the same spec and you should find they range from around 50 up to 150.

The suggestion by aceraf for another pair of tweeters for the rear is superb, i can vouch for that as i have two upfront and two on therear shelf and my tweeting will kill your ears well before the bass.

Regards

Saboor

[1an]

Saboor, that all made 100% sense, obviously i would make sure everything is wired in correctly, and ill keep my crossovers inline as thats how they are supposed to be.

just need to find myself an amp around the 100-150 pound mark, which will be worth buying and having.

[Heyho]

What you need is a 4 channel amp.

Any half decent amp will have seperate filters and gain adjustment for each pair of channels.

The first thing you need to do is take very little notice of the power ratings of your speakers - it a fairly meaningless figure, and all down to how the manufacturers make and test the speakers.

The crossovers that came with your front speakers MUST be used. They are designed specifically for your speakers, and will ensure optimum performance and level matching.

Probably the best 4-channel amp you'll get for around about the £100 mark is something like this:

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/jbl-gto754-p-4140.html

JBL are well rated budget gear. The in-phase stuff linked to earlier in this thread may be questionable. I've not personally heard any of their products, but the opinion of others I've spoken to is that it's best left well alone. Ask around.

Once installed, the gain controls for each pair of channels can be adjusted to match the sensitivity of each set of speakers.

BTW, you only need 1 pair of tweeters, and they should be in the front. Any more will mess up the sound stage. In fact, most SQ installs comprise of front components and a sub - nothing more.

[1an]

ive been speaking to my local car audio shop today and im going to get myself a 4 channel mtx thunder amp, mtx digital monoblock amp and they said i can try out some different subs in different sizes and models to see what i want best,

also got my headunit coming, thanks to the g/f who orderd it for me for christmas,

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/produc ... /3455.html

[Heyho]

Very nice headunit.

I thought you said that you already had a sub setup?

[1an]

yeah i do, but fusion stuff is rubbish as i found out today when i sat in the owners car that had a full mtx audio set-up. so thats is going and in with some mtx gear

[secondtimelucky]

I agree with Heyho, inphase stuff is shit, managed to blow two sets of (apparently 200watt) co-axials off my 4x45 watt head unit and they didn't sound great before that, stay away from them....

[Heyho]

yeah i do, but fusion stuff is rubbish as i found out today when i sat in the owners car that had a full mtx audio set-up. so thats is going and in with some mtx gear

Be very careful when making such comparisons - there's an often qouted adage associated with car audio - 10% kit, 90% installation.

You can have the best gear in the world, but poorly installed will be blown away by some well installed budget kit.

I would be tempted to have a look at what you've got. A good solid install of the front comps, coupled to a decent amp, combined with the sub you already have may surprise you. The setting up of the system is very important too, and sometimes takes a long time to get right.

You may want to consider adding some sound deadening to the mid positions as well - this can make a real difference to bass reproduction and clarity.

[1an]

i understand what your saying, i will be using sounddeading as per what the shop advises as needed etc, obviously i will be using top quality cables etc aswell, i already have front mtx components up front and i am very very happy with them and after hearing the set-up today im more than happy,

i think my main problem is that the 12" sub i have at the moment doesnt give me the tight punchy base that i want. im not into bass that drops ridicuosly low if that makes sense,

[Heyho]

Fair enough, but what I would say is don't just throw your sub away before getting the front end sorted.

The "punchy" tight bass you are craving (aren't we all!) doesn't really come from the sub. The hard edge and punch from kick-drums etc is produced by the front speakers, and is usually referred to a "midbass". You will certainly be lacking midbass at the moment, especially if you don't have the front comps amped. It is at the lower end of the frequencies (about 100 - 250hz), whereas the sub usually plays the stuff below this. Also, is your sub in a ported or sealed enclosure?

You also need to consider the speaker sizes - what size mids did the demo car have? If it was 6.5s, rather than the 5.25s you'll get in a (standard) E30, there's another reason for improved punch.

Oh - and don't go silly on expensive cables - as long as the RCAs are shielded, and have decent plugs, they'll be fine. The same for speaker cable - as long as they are of sufficient size (16awg should be plenty), copper is copper.

Don't think that I'm trying to put you off improving your system, I just wouldn't like to see you shell out a load of cash for little or no improvement.

[1an]

Heyho, im not just going to throw it away, im going to do it in 2 stages so i can hear the improvement, stage one being getting myself a 4 channel amp, and aload of new cables etc. then ill do stage to, digital monoblock amp and new sub,

my fusion sub is in a ported box at the moment,

the demo car was a ford running standard 5.25 speakers, exactly the same component speakers as to which are in my car except for the rears but they dont make much difference to be honest really,

im not going to go stupid on cables, but like you say twisted and shield RCA leads and some better quality speaker cable,

[Heyho]

Cool.

Your existing sub in a sealed enclosure may give you the sound you're after - but it may ask you for more power.

Good luck with the install - hope it get's done quicker than mine!

[1an]

will all be in, in the new year, the hardest part with be makign soem kind of rack mounting,

btw, what is the best way to mount a sub box, so it doesnt move about.

[blackjack]

I agree with Heyho, inphase stuff is shit, managed to blow two sets of (apparently 200watt) co-axials off my 4x45 watt head unit and they didn't sound great before that, stay away from them....

yes inphase are shit!

power isnt the issue, clipping is (distoriting)! 9/10 times u dont even realise you are doing it!

thats how its possible to put 30,000wrms into a sub rated to 3000wrms if the signal is clean!




for 150 quid for an amp, look at dls or diamond!

you may be able to get an atomic amp for that too and they are the dogs danglies! have a look on www.extremeaudio.co.uk the guys are great and have never let me down in 7 years!

[Heyho]

btw, what is the best way to mount a sub box, so it doesnt move about.

Some people screw or even bungee them down, but a good solution I've seen used is a couple of wide strips of velcro - strong enough to stop the box moving about, and still make it easy to remove.

[blackjack]

velcro is always good! but would suggest a grill over the sub as accicdents can happen with it,

focus (if you have one near you) sell it by the meter#