1st Track-day in the 325 - report - CASTLE COMBE 1st Dec

[325ie30]

I did my first track day at Castle Combe on saturday, possibly the most fun I've ever had in an e30; without a woman! (and maybe even so )

We did the whole thing on a tiny budget. Myself and a mate have been sorting this car out for months, rescuing it from the delapidated state it was in when we bought it before summer. It's a standard (apart from smaller steering wheel and removed rear seats etc) 1987 325i with a fetching bronze, moss and bird sh1t paint job.

It was a nasty day, chucking it down with rain for most of it (needed a wash anyway though), so a real test of grip. Sadly we had none!! It turns out that manky old tires that have been sat around in the garden for years don't cut the mustard on track! And with such a small amount of run-off at castle combe, it made for quite an underware-soiling track debut!

Both myself and the other driver booked some tuition, and the instructor soon learned to hate the car for it's lethal lack of grip, he said "it's not safe for the road, let alone the track"!!

**Does anyone know if track tarmac is actually less grippy than road, or if it's just to do with the perspective thing - thinking you're going slower than you are because of all the space??...**


Needless to say we had plenty of fun sideways moments, whether we wanted them or not! And miraculously didn't spin

After a few laps as passenger in a mate's 205 GTI with R888's on it, I was just shocked that tyres could make such a HUGE difference. The car dug into the road like it was bone dry! So tyres are definately top of the list of upgrades before the next one...

As it was wet, the limitations of the brakes and suspention weren't really highlighted too much, but we plan to make small improvements all the same, probably just decent pads and some stiffer springs for now. One thing's for sure - it's true what they say about not worrying about the power of the car! The rest of it has a long way to go to catch up with the engine's potential already!

All in all it was a great day and I'm itching for the next track day - on decent tyres!! There was a slight sting in the tail - the clutch dieing on the way home, but I luckily sorted it out quite quickly so I'm just thankful that it didn't happen during the day!

Good to see that there was another e30 going round (faster) too - one who I've since spotted on here but lost again now. Shame I didn't get a chance to chat to them...

I think she'll make a stirling track car once a few things are sorted. I was ultimately slow on the day but learned a lot and had a great time!

To be continued...

[northloop]

Sounds like you had a good day. Tyres make a massive difference that is very true. R888's are really dry weather tyres that work well when up to temp. They do however also perform in the wet as long as there is no standing water. Then they become leathal. The ideal is to have 2 sets of wheels. One with dry tyres and one with wet.

If you are looking for another track day I am organising one at Bedford in Feb. Plenty of tuition on hand, loads of run off and a 4.2 mile track to play on. There is a thread running in this section about it.

[325ie30]

Hmmm interesting. I admit the guy with the R888's did have a dramatic off later in the day after a massive downpour.. Having 2 sets clearly is the way forward (rather than sideways!) but anything's better than the 'Vikings' that are on mine at the moment.

Bedford is tempting, and should've made some improvements by then.. will pencil it in

[stoneyV6]

nothing quite like a track day for really getting the most fun from the car even better when its rear wheel drive sounds like you really enjoyed yourselves.

I share an old 325i and like you we are slowly trying to improve it for track use done quite a bit of wotk over the last year but have not touched the engine yet that will be last on the list.

R888s and the like are popular choice but we have opted to run decent road tyres in the wet and a set of second hand slicks for the dry,,,£20 a corner and give huge grip.

[salami]

I read somewhere that you loose 5% of oils from the tyres every year, so only takes a few years and you have plastic not rubber!!!lol

[Timbopbmw]

i was there i saw you,loving the bird shit paint job,i was helping my mate with the turboed kit car parked near you!great day shame about the weather!!

[325ie30]

Lol I believe it as well! They're probably about half way there. That'll teach me to cost-cut on the important bits!

Stoney, sounds like you're in the same boat as us just slightly behind. Only difference being that you've already decided to do the job properly with the tyres! I'm also thinking about some second hand slicks as it happens but again there's no gaurantee about how long they've been hanging around...

Why do decent new tyres have to cost so damn much?!

[325ie30]

Timbo - that was a mean looking motor! Don't remember mixing with it on track though, it probably went by me too quick for me to notice

[stoneyV6]

I was lucky with the tyres they came straight of martin johnsons clio race car and on the BM the next day and i have never had a set of any tyres last a year on track as i do at least one trackday per month.

trouble is the clios now use 17" rather than the 15" slicks so had to buy the last two brand new at £117 each fitted still if i get the year out of them i will be well happy at that. Apart from shedding weight and fitting decent pads i reckon the tyres are the next best mod you can do for the cost.

if you wanted to run 17" wheels just go to the next clio cup race and buy used tyres from a team they wont have been hanging around some chancers garage for years.

this is our old beastie a great fun car and cheap to,,, cadwell thursday and it looks like rain.
http://www.trackaction-online.co.uk/pho ... /ppuser/85

[paulg390]

Hi there, we were there in the other E30 - the white one.... kept meaning to come over and say "hi" but the weather was so pants we were constantly either hiding from the rain or out on track ! Do come over if you see us at another one.
We started off just like you guys with a stripped out pretty standard 325i (now owned by another approachable chap on here, cheapaschips, I think.) that went like stink and was "fun" on the corners. Now got the bug (be warned it can be expensivee !) and have done loads to our latest one and it now has most bits upgraded or lightened.
We actually have 3 sets of tyres, R888s for "changeable", Slicks for bone dry, and race wets for the worst (i.e. some of Saturday !).
Dont worry about having so many though as CC was unbelievably slippery !! We've done loads of circuits in the rain on R888s (Inc Spa) and been very happy with them in all conditions but on Saturday we were really struggling, having some offs too - maybe its just an old surface but it certainly had very little grip compared to most others.

Awesome track though.... well impressed if that was your first trackday !

[325ie30]

Aha, hello sir! I don't feel so bad about you flying past me having read your signature! Looks like a pretty well sorted example! Stoneys is looking good too, they both put mine to shame, I'm lucky the 'rat-look' is in

I noticed you came prepared and swapped to some orange wheels after that early afternoon drenching. I imagine it can get very expensive to get all the kit, I'm happy building up to it slowly, can't be spending all my money on the old girl!

I have nothing to compare it to but agree it's a great track, I was thinking how fast and dangerous it would've been in the wet before they put the chicanes in in '99!

Stoney do you know how much a set of used slicks from the clio cup would cost? I do happen to have a set of 17" rims that fit the e30...

Who'd have thought there'd be 3 zoners out of the small number who were there?! Good to see

[325ie30]

Photos from the day!

http://s183.photobucket.com/albums/x167 ... %20coombe/

Password = vic

[GuyM]

We started off just like you guys with a stripped out pretty standard 325i (now owned by another approachable chap on here, cheapaschips, I think.) that went like stink and was "fun" on the corners.

Yep - i am that owner! the car has pased through a few hands (on here i think) before it got to me. i too run on a shoestring budget:
1 - put fuel in before setting off for the track
2 - nail it round the track for a day
3 - drive it home and leave it on the drive until the next trackday
4 - repeat process at least once a month
http://xtremesportsphotography.net/gall ... mId=417361

i love it to bits and keep meaning to give it some tlc but never get round to it! it may however be suffering a bit as recently it sometimes loses power and chugs along before a blip of the throttle gets things going again - a bit of diagnostic tlc is required!

drive it and enjoy it - i can second the views on tyres. i had some crabby old ones and then changed to R888s - despite a few wear problems they make you feel like you a driving like a God in comparisom!

the funny thing about the old E30 is wherever you go people come over and have a chat/look - most people had one at sometime in their lives and its like a little nostalgia for them to see one out on the track.

one other thing - weight is everything - if it is not welded on or in then bin it!

[stoneyV6]

yep track days first and modds if there is any spare cash,, no point having mega buck coil overs if they blow the trackday budget,, we made our coil overs for the grand total of £150.

hard to put a price on the tyres just ask all of the teams and see who is flogging a decent set the cheapest.

[Jon_Bmw]

Paul you wern't at Colerne today were you?

[Lloydie38]

Takes me back to my first track day in the wet with cr@p tyres (14" rims) and no LSD - What a laugh, people were queing to get a ride as we were coming back from each 7 to 8 laps giggling like school girls In three hours I did 110 miles on track on a totally standard ebay purchase

Good on yer and I love the paint job

Hope you don't mind - just put these up of you to save time ..Looks a good track..

PaulG - looking good

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[paulg390]

Paul you wern't at Colerne today were you?

Fraid not ... back in sunny Herts now...

[R4N_S_S]

I will have my E30 on teh track some time in the new year too.

Did Castle Coombe in my 3dr Cossie last year - was great until the back end stepped out at 135mph on Avon Rise going into Quarry.

[dips346]

I will have my E30 on teh track some time in the new year too.

Did Castle Coombe in my 3dr Cossie last year - was great until the back end stepped out at 135mph on Avon Rise going into Quarry.

that was funny i remember the after math pics

[ScottEgg]

Hello 325ie30,
Congratulations on your first track day. I try to do C'Combe at least once a year as it's right on my doorstep, very fast and relatively easy to learn. I commend the way you have approached the day and the whole track day issue. There are far to many people who deny themselves the pleasure of track driving due to not having this, that or the other. If the car is safe then just get out there and enjoy it.

With regard to tyres and grip I have tried both super grippy A032rs and A048s but have now resorted back to T1-r Proxes (fast-road tyre). I found that whilst the softer grippy tyres prove to be much much quicker an element of enjoyment was lost as the car doesnt slide so much but when it does you are going very fast! They are a damm site cheaper than the Yoko's also.

I am a highway engineer and hence know a little about tarmac. The types of tarmac used on all race cicuits vary but none are similar to that found on the public highway. Race tracks tend to have a lower scrim material which means less wet weather grip. They are also made up of a larger percentage of small stones which means a tight surface trexture. The tarmacs on the road are made with larger stones, increased skid resistance and are designed to work over a longer life span.

I have a 325 track day car and i love it!
Cheers
Scott

[Timbopbmw]

Timbo - that was a mean looking motor! Don't remember mixing with it on track though, it probably went by me too quick for me to notice

it is an awesome machine,but un driveable on saturday,due to to much power.
He was spinning it up through every gear even with his 6ft5 18stone dad sat next to him over the rear wheels!
I shall be on track at combe at a track day in the new year and racing in there in march!!

[paulg390]

PaulG - looking good


[img][img]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x167 ... ombe10.jpg[/img][/img]

Ta very much - but as you know white ones are definitely the best.... but if you look carefully.... iS lip missing (ahem, it WAS slippy !) and front anti-roll bar disconnected... (well I said it was slippy and the offroad stuff was very bumpy )
will defo have a good think about that Hillclimb of yours...

[JimmyC]

Timbo - that was a mean looking motor! Don't remember mixing with it on track though, it probably went by me too quick for me to notice

it is an awesome machine,but un driveable on saturday,due to to much power.
He was spinning it up through every gear even with his 6ft5 18stone dad sat next to him over the rear wheels!
I shall be on track at combe at a track day in the new year and racing in there in march!!

email me what day your doing, I want a pre race play too ;)

[Lloydie38]

PaulG - looking good


[img][img]http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x167 ... ombe10.jpg[/img][/img]

Ta very much - but as you know white ones are definitely the best.... but if you look carefully.... iS lip missing (ahem, it WAS slippy !) and front anti-roll bar disconnected... (well I said it was slippy and the offroad stuff was very bumpy )
will defo have a good think about that Hillclimb of yours...

I think the front iS lip looks much better off and sat on the grass and yes the wite ones are soooooo much better than the rest

On the last slippy track day after one spectacular off on the grass my exhaust was hanging on by the front only - brackets ahoy!
[img][img]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r117 ... G_2630.jpg[/img][/img]

[paulg390]

cool pic we could be onto something here.... how many would it take to start a club for white track cars with no iS lip ?

[karaokebykris]

cool pic we could be onto something here.... how many would it take to start a club for white track cars with no iS lip ?

Damn it!

My track slag is black with an iS lip

[325ie30]

Hello 325ie30,
Congratulations on your first track day. I try to do C'Combe at least once a year as it's right on my doorstep, very fast and relatively easy to learn. I commend the way you have approached the day and the whole track day issue. There are far to many people who deny themselves the pleasure of track driving due to not having this, that or the other. If the car is safe then just get out there and enjoy it.

With regard to tyres and grip I have tried both super grippy A032rs and A048s but have now resorted back to T1-r Proxes (fast-road tyre). I found that whilst the softer grippy tyres prove to be much much quicker an element of enjoyment was lost as the car doesnt slide so much but when it does you are going very fast! They are a damm site cheaper than the Yoko's also.

I am a highway engineer and hence know a little about tarmac. The types of tarmac used on all race cicuits vary but none are similar to that found on the public highway. Race tracks tend to have a lower scrim material which means less wet weather grip. They are also made up of a larger percentage of small stones which means a tight surface trexture. The tarmacs on the road are made with larger stones, increased skid resistance and are designed to work over a longer life span.

I have a 325 track day car and i love it!
Cheers
Scott

Cheers scott, you're lucky to have that place on your doorstep! In the same vein that I don't usually holiday to the same place more than once 'cos variety is the spice of life and all that - I want to try out all the different tracks I can, but I loved combe and will be happy to get back on there asap. With good tyres.
Good point about the grip thing by the way, I've wondered whether you can have too much grip - so much that you can't get a bit wild when you want to! A large part of the charm of these cars for me is the RWD lairiness, so I don't want to completely drown that with masses of grip. I guess you need to try a few different tyres out and get yourself a compromise you're happy with. I've definately savoured one extreme of the grip spectrum - time to head in the other direction!!

Thanks for sharing the knowledge on the tarmac grip front too : ) I knew it was different regardless of what people told me. I needn't have been so scared driving home at the end of the track-day thinking I was about to slide round every corner after all!