Can an E30 be truely reliable?

[toby]

That's an interesting point dannyboy. Back in the day they used to say that about E30s too as everyone was afraid of computer technology and diagnostic equipment. What kind of special tools are needed for E90 out of interest?

[tim_s]

i dont agree with most of this. i've found e30s as unreliable as any other car 15+years old, mine's had a load of work compared to newer cars. lots of stuff has failed. mine was bought in 2001 with 70k, fsh, 2 pvs owners, totally mint. my bro and old man both have e36s (both late 90s) thye've had a load less work, which is undoubtedly mainly because they're much younger.

[march109]

Everyones experience of every car is going to be different, cars have their quirks. My mate had an old beetle and it never ever ever broke down despite looking like the car from the flintstones, yet it wouldn't start withought a door open and the seats only moved if you had your feet off the ground.

Modern cars do have plus points, such as a warranty, but they are only as good as the monkey or robot that put them together. Withought the hubble space telescope and H.A.L your lucky if you can change a tyre on a new car withought an ABS fault of some sort.

Older cars are generally easier, quicker and cheaper to fix when they do go wrong, if maintained correctly they can be as reliable as any other.

[tim_s]

Older cars are generally easier, quicker and cheaper to fix when they do go wrong, if maintained correctly they can be as reliable as any other.

Agreed, but older cars also generally go wrong more cos the bits are older. when comparing say a 1999 E36 to a 1990 E30 that's a big difference.

[ChrisBarns]

I think the age of bits is a factor. Once a car gets over a certain millage things just start to wear out. I just don't know if I can be bothered driving around faults that all old cars have. I had a Porsche 944 once.In many ways the best car I've ever owned. Problem was I wanted to look after it properly and worked out that it cost £200 / months in servicing and repairs over the 2 years / 40k miles I owned it,. And it never had every single little bit working perfectly at the same time.

[Brianmoooore]

i dont agree with most of this. i've found e30s as unreliable as any other car 15+years old, mine's had a load of work compared to newer cars. lots of stuff has failed. mine was bought in 2001 with 70k, fsh, 2 pvs owners, totally mint. .

The problem will be in the standard of servicing and maintenence. The 'age' of parts is irrelevant as such, except possibly for rubber parts - a part can be designed to last as long as it's designer chooses, and most parts on E30s are designed to last longer than on most other stuff.

[ian332isport]

The only time my car has EVER let me down, it was a simple relay failure. I've owned it since December 96 and done over 100k miles in it, so not bad really

I appreciate that I've spent a lot of money on the car, but that's mainly because I wanted to, rather than having to. A lot of people like driving the car, and hate it when they have to get their hands dirty. I actually get a lot of pleasure from getting my hands dirty and woring on the car. I think I would get very bored with a modern car that you can't do much yourself.

Most modern cars will go straight to the scrappies when they get older and go wrong. People just won't pay dealer charges for diagnostic work/repairs, and can't do it themselves without specialist equipment etc. You certainly won't find an e39zone in years to come

Ian.

[stranter]

My E30 318i (phase 1) has been very reliable. I've owned it two years nearly now and it's broken down once when a hose blew (one I knew I should've replaced). I could've patched up and carried on but I couldn't be bothered so i called the AA.

Preventetive maintenance is the key. Mines had 4 new tyres, a new rad, new viscous fan, new thermostat, all new hoses, a battery, one rear bulb, diff and gearbox oil change plus oil changes at every 6k or less. It starts on the button, and is very relaible. It's on 95k and is backed up by fsh. It lives otuside too.

Stewart

[e30bmlover]

the b20 has never let me down.... NEVER! i bought her with 97,800 miles on her and shes now got 114,680. i have replaced many parts. the b20 has allot of oil leaks but she still keeps going!!!!!!! i only hope that the 87 325 lives up to the b20's reputation.

[chinchilla]

e30s are very tough! i havnt abused mine much at all and only one problem has come up a year after buying it!

[tim_s]

i dont agree with most of this. i've found e30s as unreliable as any other car 15+years old, mine's had a load of work compared to newer cars. lots of stuff has failed. mine was bought in 2001 with 70k, fsh, 2 pvs owners, totally mint. .

The problem will be in the standard of servicing and maintenence. The 'age' of parts is irrelevant as such, except possibly for rubber parts - a part can be designed to last as long as it's designer chooses, and most parts on E30s are designed to last longer than on most other stuff.

My car was impeccably maintained - bmw fsh until about 97 when the owner before me bought the car, and he used a bmw specialist. i had a fully stamped book and 70k miles on it when i bought it in 2001. I have receipts for subframe bush replacement, profile gasket change before my ownership etc. he spent silly money on the car. The age of parts is 100% relevant. An older part is more likely to break. And no matter how well serviced the car is you can't expect all parts to have been replaced.
A massive amount of stuff on mine has failed, including:

-rack - became leaky
-pas pump - became noisy
-rear wheel bearings - became noisy
-diff - was a tad noisy when i bought it tbh, got worse
-suspension - became shot to hell
-exhaust - was about to fall off
-rad - started leaking
-TPS - failed
-cam sensor - failed
-clutch release bearing - failed
-clutch slave cylinder - failed
-coolant hose - failed
-steering u/j coupling - failed
-track rods, old ones were tired
-balljoints
-control arm bushes
-subframe bushes (again)

and that's off the top of my head!!! the recon'd rack now has a touch of play in it too.
everything 'failed' rendered the car unusable, just about all of it is not stuff that preventative maintenence could've helped.
all of these things have failed during ownership and were fine when i bought the car. basically parts wear out, and that's much more likely on a 17 year old car than a newish one. I've replaced so many more parts on mine than on the late e36s i look after, simply because its older. sure its a good design, but when cars get old stuff breaks, and that renders them less reliable than newer cars.
the car's also had a load of unnecessary and preventative stuff done. i use late e36 ancilliaries, it has a new engine, new bushes and seals all the way through and so forth.
I've done 70k on mine, I guess peoples' standards and useage varies. I'm not exactly crying over it, but I accept that by running an older car I'll have to do more maintenence and that its going to be less reliable.

[toby]

And no matter how well serviced the car is you can't expect all parts to have been replaced.

I guess peoples' standards and useage varies. I'm not exactly crying over it, but I accept that by running an older car I'll have to do more maintenence and that its going to be less reliable.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Not all parts would have been replaced and some E30s are trully rubbish up close. Full service history means nothing if the advisories of extra replacement parts haven't been attended to. Now you've replaced so many parts at least they will last for, hopefully, at least as long as the old ones did. Strange about the subframe bushes needing to be done again. None of the items you've had to replace are really that expensive though, are they?

And you're a very mechanically minded fellow so the potentially higher standard you may want to maintain the car to will cost a regular outgoing of money. Some E30s have so many little things wrong with them; trim, bodywork, mechanicals and the owners don't notice or aren't bothered by them. I have folders of receipts for my car, even from the previous owners and it all adds up. One day I may total up all the costs just to scare myself.

By way of comparison my Dad used to have an F reg Audi Avant 2.3L with the lovely 5 cylinder lump, self leveling suspension etc. By the time he sold it, it had loads of annoying faults, a terrible cold-start and no heater The cost of putting it right was ridiculous.

[Morat]

I know this thread was about reliability but it should really be about the total cost of ownership. To get that figure you have to factor in fuel, spares, labour and the big one - depreciation. If you look at all those costs you can make a much better case for an E30. You can buy and fit a lot of spares for the depreciation an E90 will take over 3 years...

If you look at the leasing prices of cars you get a better picture of what it would cost you to run a new car per months. Well, if you had massive buying power with the dealership for spares and the local mechanics/garages for labour that is.

[ChrisBarns]

I respect everyone's opinions and realise that there are many people with E30s that have performed faultlessly over large mileages.

There is a problem with how much are we willing to accept not working. My interior light, for example, is intermittent. This annoys me every time I can't find something in the dark. Not enough for me to try too hard to fix it but it is irritating. It wouldn't happen on a new car or, if it did, I'd make the garage fix it under warranty.

The problem with the "if you maintain it correctly / if you drive it correctly it will never let you down" argument is often the beginning assumption that E30s are inherently reliable. This is a self fulfilling prophecy: My E30 has never broken down - it was well maintained. My E30 broke down - that shows that the previous owner didn't service / drive it correctly. Check out the technical help section. There are a lot of won't start / cuts out / runs badly requests for help. I had a friend with an Alfa GTV6.

It used to make loads of power one day and hardly any the next. No aparant pattern. He changed loads of stuff until he realised the rubber in a short section of the fuel pipe had degraded aloowing bit to block the injection system. Thats the sort of thing that happens in old cars.

My original post asked what you would do to try and make your E30 as dependable as possible. Does anyone have a top tip?

[Jesus325iTouring]

Does anyone have a top tip?

Shank's Pony

[Sacred_Cow]

In 18 months and 20k miles, my 318i has only let me down once due to a refusal of the fuel pump that had mysteriously sorted itself out the next day (RAC insisted it was out of petrol but had 3/4 of a tank.... go figure).

I kind of think E30s are from a sort of golden age when cars were modern enough to be decent, but not so complicated you couldn't look after it yourself. As others have pointed out, I don't think it's going to be easy to keep an E46 or E90 running in 20 years time, because who's going to have Deep Blue in their garden shed?

[iamjj]

ive owned new and used cars, and i havent noticed any difference in reliablity between them.
it's like anything, if you look after it, it will look after you.
My touring is my main car, i dont have any other form of transport, it doesnt worry me, i'll be looking after it

[SCOTT325SE]

in a word - no

the only way you could probably limit the chance of something happening would be if the previous owner had gone all round the car renewing every clip, hose and part possible - so not likly to happen.

Best to keep an E30 for hobby/second/spare car and use a more realible/newer car for everyday use in my opinion - sure someone will disagree with me though!!

a bit like ive done with a full resto then?
Engine recon is next and i fully expect it to run faultlessly when i bring her out from under covers. I see your point but my mates new 57plate Audi has been in the garage for more time than he's driven it (unlucky car maybe) so there's arguements for both sides.

[bloom_meister]

The secret, as with any car, is to buy a tidy one to start with. My current E30 had clearly lived a pampered life and I was happy to pay top dollar because of this. In two years, apart from regular servicing and tyres etc, its needed nothing. Same story with my (allegedly inferior) E36 - in 5 years and 75K its needed only two suspension bushes. BMW's (well, old ones anyway) are built to last. At least with E30's most faults are easily sorted. Overheat a modern BMW and you're likely to be looking for a new engine.

As with any car, a bad E30 is just a moneypit that will cost its purchase price and then some to put right.

Wise words.

The best thing about my e30 purchase was not that it was a motorsport, or that it was in the colour i wanted, it wasnt even that it had very low mileage. All the above paled into insignificance when i saw the service book and that the car had been for its annual checks (every year), its bodywork checks for the first 8 or 9 years, its fluid checks (every year, and its winter checks too!...thats in addition to the full MDSH.

I knew the car had been a pampered toy and the condition backed that up. I get so many nice comments on the car from random strangers and i swear to you i have not even cleaned it yet or fitted any of the new parts (cept the radio and armrest).

Buy a good one, get it regularly serviced and do the other routine small maintenance stuff and I see no reason why you cannot use it every day and rely on it.

In comparison I just bit a very large bill for the entire set of disks on my 996 replacing (at 14k miles and 3 years old...). The car is warrantied but oh no ''wear and tear..consumables..''. Very disappointing indeed, I told Porsche to get stuffed and bought a much better quality aftermarket set at half the price too.

new does not always mean better.

Tim

[andyp]

if looked after i cant think of a more reliable car to have, ive never had one brake down yet. apart from a flat battery. we have got 2 newer cars which have electric sensor things going wrong quite often,

[thesaint]

my e30 is my main car, in about 2 1/2 years, it has never let me down, water pump sprung a leak but not to bad to get me home, i have taken her to France, belgum, Germany, Hungry, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Croatia, Italy, Spain and Ibiza. A few bushes here and their but nothing that has ever stopped me, she is coming up to 180,000 miles and is often thrashed, cant see why people think a modern highly complicated car would be more reliable?

[mrLEE30]

There is a problem with how much are we willing to accept not working. My interior light, for example, is intermittent. This annoys me every time I can't find something in the dark. Not enough for me to try too hard to fix it but it is irritating. It wouldn't happen on a new car or, if it did, I'd make the garage fix it under warranty.


My original post asked what you would do to try and make your E30 as dependable as possible. Does anyone have a top tip?

sorry but you answered your own qusetion... you cannot be bothered to maintain your car on even something as simple as a door switch earth connection (what your light problem would probably be BTW)... so cannot do it yourself.. as you said take it to a garage and have them fix it.

I have know the local Merc dealer here, in the middle east - the biggest market outside USA - with brand new S-classes thay have done less then 1000km before the garbox has packed in, up till last year they rusted within 6 months (note we have less than 2 inches of rain a year).. so i refuse to accept new cars are more reliable but as you rightly pointed out it can be fixed under warrenty.... but once that runs out.... would you touch a fully loaded 5 year old 7 series???

What you seem to fail to see is part of owning an older car includes playing with the car, learning what goes wrong and why, if not find out on the zone, then fix it relatively easily in your own garage.... if you cannot accept this then my real answer for your top tip is sell the thing and by a brand new car, which for (very mint) E30 money will get you something nice and Korean, run that for a few years and come back to us

mrlee

[iamjj]

part of owning an older car includes playing with the car, learning what goes wrong and why, if not find out on the zone, then fix it relatively easily in your own garage

couldnt agree more, ive learned everything i know about cars (which isnt much) from tinkering with mine.