Nurburgring dull, boring and over crowded?

[northloop]

Well I dont think so

Sorry it's my 205 rather than my E30 - but that isn't finished yet

[E30Mark]

Quality!

Get on with the E30, stop playing in the snow...

[hammoj28]

Holy crap! Thats mad.lol. looks ace fun. Never thought about the ring in the snow.

[northloop]

The track was closed for a track day. I was working with the organisors and they asked me to do a sighting lap to test the conditions. The chances of me ever doing a lap in the snow, take pictures from the track and drive in the wrong direction were very very small, so I took the opportunity when it presented itself. The track was indeed un driveable and the day was cancelled.

[Demlotcrew]

Show off

[fastdiablo]

That looks a scream

Reminds me of the vid of the Porsche test driver out in the snow ! . . .

[JungleGus]

thats awesome.

[chrisr29]

Nice one......should've pitted for some snow tires.

[Onz]

awsome looks like u had a total blast! Did u still have to pay for driving on the grass?

[march109]

Snow off!

[Jhonno]

[northloop]

awsome looks like u had a total blast! Did u still have to pay for driving on the grass?

Grass???

[handpaper]

That looks a scream

Reminds me of the vid of the Porsche test driver out in the snow ! . . .

This one? Walter Rohrl playing in the snow

[UweM3]

and now do it with a bike, lool!

[fastdiablo]

That looks a scream

Reminds me of the vid of the Porsche test driver out in the snow ! . . .

This one? Walter Rohrl playing in the snow

Yea, thats the one

on a bike would be fun, a bit like THIS . . .

[al-g]

That looks so cool. Can't wait to get back there next year.

[maxfield]

Awesome dude!

Think what you could of done in your E30

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

NorthLoop - Looks Great fun, but enjoy it while you can.

If the Rummors are correct, then things at the Ring on Open
Track Days are sure going to be very different next year.

Some of it may well be nothing more than Gossip, but its for sure,
taking on a Track Prepared Car on an Open ''Tourist'' Track Day next
year will see many turned away.

They are saying that you will require ''TUVE'' for any modifications
to your Car.

If asked and you can not supply the correct documentation then
you will not be permitted to do any laps, simple.

This is to stop ill prepared Cars, and sub standard vehicles from
entering the Track and then causing problems as in past years.

And while you may well shout MOT, that is not what a TUVE certificate
covers, its for aftermarket alterations and modifications that are
easily identified.

Roll Cage, Big Brakes, Different wheels, different Suspension,
larger Spoliers, splitters and so it goes on.

Long way to go to be told sorry, no entry, and no means of knowing
in advance if you qualify.

The rummors may well be over done, but one thing is for sure,
any thing that the Marshall's do not like the look of ain't going on,
simple.

Fact is that even some GT2'S with Club Spoilers were refused entry
this year.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[agent006]

The rummors may well be over done,

Last i heard was that an MOT is sufficient.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

Agent006- not any more.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Onz]

Where do we go to get a TUVE and how much does it cost?

[agent006]

GermanGorrilla, i'm basing on the following:

northloop said:
Straight from the horses mouth .......

1. As before TUV is required on all German cars. This is the same as at present.

2. For all foreign cars such as the UK ones the cars must be 100% road legal for use in the country you live in. If that is the case and you have your docs (as required now) then you are A - ok.

3. They will however be more strigent on things like reg plates, trade plates, tax discs. If any of the above shows cause for concern then docs will be looked at.

So keep the car road legal, take your docs with you and you will be fine.

[agent006]

Note that's not referring to "our" northloop, but coming from the northloop forum.

[agent006]

Info from here:

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Northloop/in ... =7439&st=0

Summary of meeting with Nurburgring management on page 8.

[northloop]

Our northloop and the Northloop forum is one and the same person ... ie me.


It is true that there have been meetings going on with Manfred Strack the head of Nurburgring GMBH. I have had communication with Manfred and also a meeting with the head guy in the Nordschleife office last weekend. The crux of it is this.

Cars arrive at the Nordscleife to drive on tourist days when they are ill prepared or blatantly flaunting the rules. For instance they are miles over the 95db noise limit. They arrive on trade plates. They have illegal number plates fitted. They have no number plates fitted. They have non working lights. They have wooden spoilers nailed to the boot. They have no hand brake fitted the list is endless.

The result of my discussions are as follows.

1. If you have a standard car you have nothing to fear.

2. If you have a modified car that is 100% road legal, has not been modded after the MOT, for example those stupid look alike German plates and it has been well prepared and not dangerous you will be allowed access to the Nordschleife. However, if you flaunt the rules or muck about they could ask you to provide documentation to prove that your car has passed a TUV inspection. In the majority of cases this would prove impossible and you would be on your way home.

I am no expert on the TUV (euro) inspection but I know it is tight, much tighter than the UK MOT. For instance on a 2 door car with access to the rear seats via a folding front seat the seat MUST be capable of folding through 30 degrees. This is the case even if rear seats are not fitted. Therefore if you have a fixed bucket seat fitted to your 3- door you would fail a TUV inspection.

So the general line is.............. Make sure your car is well prepared, make sure it is UK road legal when you arrive at the track, don't piss about and draw attention to yourself when you get there. Obey the rules. If you do all of those you should be ok.

Personally I dont think you can blame the GMBH for having a tougher stance on this. At least now they have a means to send people home who are a pain in the bum.

Gary

[mikekean]

by tourist days wat do you mean? do you mean as in an organised trackday. or just when the track is open you you go through the toll? the reason i ask is i live in jersey and we have no such thing as an MOT our cars are never tested through out there whole life unless you get pulled over by the police and they deem the car not road legal. in such cases it gets sent to the DVS (driver and vehicle standards) where they examine the vehicle for defects. my car is perfectly road legal and its on mods and lowering and an exhaust. would i be ok. or would i still run the risk of getting there and being turned away?

cheers
mike

[agent006]

Our northloop and the Northloop forum is one and the same person ... ie me.

Was aware of that, but though i'd make the point as i wasn't pasting a direct quote from you.

Thanks for clearing the situation up. Seems to be a good move from NR, trying to deter the TopGear copy brigade turning up in £900 XJS V12s.

[northloop]

Mike.

Tourist days are days when you turn up and pay at the barrier to drive the track, not closed track days. I have yet to see anyone have their MOT examined, although that shouldn't be a reason to arrive with a sub standard car.

It's impossible for me to say that your car will be ok, but if it's well maintained, road legal and safe you should be ok.

[Simon13]

only a fool takes a rough car there though, plenty of people do though. Hopefully this well help get rid of them.

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

I hear what NortLoop says, and while its obvious that the 'Hardening'
of the Rules is to deter the 'Banger'' brigade and all that goes with
it, the TUVE will apply to modified 'Cars' either German Registerd
or other.

So as Northloop says, turn up on a Tourist Day in your un-Modified
M3, or whatever as so long as your Country of origin legal, then
no problem.

However, it does say, if you turn up in your M3 with Modifications, and
its ether German Registered or other, then you must have the
TUVE documentation certificates if required to produce them.

They go on to say that a Full TUVE Inspection is available at cost to
non-German Registered Cars, that have been modified at the relevent
locations within Germany.

As I know of at least 3 Porsche owners, 2 GT2 and a Ruff 600 and
a couple of moddified E46 M3's that were turned away this year due
to spoilers, splitters and in one Case Cage with In Built Fire extingusher,
then I feel its not just the Banger Brigade that will have issues in 2008
on Open Tourist Days.

And thus the situation needs proper written clarification otherwise
there is going to be Cars that will for no other reason than an over
zealous Marshall, be turned away.

Wait till someone on hear travels all the way their to be told,
'' Sorry but your not coming in'' what are you going do about it
other than drive all the way home and bitch and moan.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[northloop]

I agree with your comments. However it isn't as easy as getting a full TUV inspection, full certification is required for your mods for the car to pass.

The biggie for most on here is the fact that bucket seats do not pivot through 30 degrees as is required on a 3 door car to allow access to the back seats (even if they aren't fitted). This is an immediate failure.

I have spoken to the head guy in the office and he confirmed it was to get rid of the unwanted element. I have communicated with Manfred and below is the reply I recieved. If you want to take things to the letter of the law you need a TUV inspection. That should make the place nice and quiet for me and my non TUV car next year

Zu den TÃœV Vorschriften ist folgendes zu sagen:

Ausländische Fahrzeuge mÃassen:
-verkehrssicher sein.
-den Lärmvorschriften entsprechen.
-Unterliegen dem EU Recht.
Die N-Gmbh hat Hausrecht.
Und setzt in Ihrem Geltungsbereich während der Touristenfahrten auf die StVZO.
Das bedeutet fÃar einen Ausländischen Fahrzeughalter,der sicher fahren möchte:
In Deutschland ein Gutachten des Fahrzeugs erstellen lassen und MITFÃœHREN. Der Deutsche TÃœV wird im Ausland als hochwertigere Instanz angesehen!
Fahrzeuge, die absolut serienmäßig sind, haben nichts zu befÃarchten. Kontrolliert werden getunte Fahrzeuge.

Meaning:

Forgein registered vehicles need to have the following:
-Must be fully roadworthy
-Must be within the noise limit
-Need to conform to EU law and regulations
-The N-GmbH has the final say "Hausrecht"
And will impose the StVZO during touristenfahrten.
That means that for foreign registered vehicles that want to be "absolutely sure" of being allowed on the ring you should have an independant TÃav test done in Germany and carry that certificate with you. The German TÃav is well respected across Europe.
Drivers of standard production cars have nothing to fear. It will be modified cars that will be controlled/inspected.

[chrisr29]

I guess the answer to that is to modify your car but keep it stock looking on the outside. How are they to know that you have uprated engine/suspension/brakes if you stick to a stock quiet exhaust, standard ride hight and standard wheel size.

Though in all fairness if it keeps the wrecks of that are likely to cause probs for others then it can only be a good thing.

[Onz]

where can i get a TUV for my Warp powered shed?

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

I do not wish to P*** on anybody's parade, but I think some
of you are missing the point.

Even German Cars with TUVE were turned away at the end of this
year.

So while having a ''standard'' looking car may be ok, once a Marshall
decides to conduct say a Noise Test on your Car, even if you a TUVE
stating that its within the 98 db limit, if he says your to loud, your off.

My whole point was that once something becomes popular, and is
perceived as being value for money then it becomes very difficult to
Police it unless you retort to the fear factor.

In order to ''spread the word'' you also refuse entry to those that do
comply in order to reinforce your message.

Apart from the Banger Brigade, its also true that at 30 odd Euros a
lap its very cheap testing if you happen to know when the quieter times
are.

Hence Race and Car Preperation Teams in Europe have logged onto the
fact that they can Trailer their Car to the Ring, stick some type of
Foreign or Trade Plate on, and test their Race Type or Highly modified
Car for just a little over 30 euros per lap.

'R' Compound Tyres have played a big part in this.

This is the other side of the coin and yet another area where Ring GmbH
is keen to stamp out it's perceived incorrect use.

This explains why modified Cars are also starting to be trurned away.

If I had been Ring GmbH I would have gone in the other direction.
I would at certain times on Ring Tourist Day's, opened to modified
Cars, and charged them say an extra 20 euros a lap.

This would have been easy to administer, as the arguing would have been
done before you purchase a ticket, as to what your Car was.
Comes down to the ''Play and Pay'' price point.

Thus you offer a regular ticket that says that if you do more that
100 laps in a year, at the 50 Euro per lap without accident
or major problem you can apply for 10 bonus laps.

This again would deter the Banger Brigade and reward the enthusiast.

You need pretty clear black and white rules to any game, as Grey areas
will bring more problems than those your trying to overcome.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[northloop]

I think it is a difficult situation all round. They want to get rid of the undesirables but it's a struggle to do so. If they stipulate that all cars must be TUV approved they would pretty much over night loose the UK contingent. That probably accounts for a 30% reduction on ticket sales and near to 50% reduction in revenue for the local hotels, guest houses, eating places etc. That would not be deemed acceptable.

I have seen the Polizei towing a couple of German cars including the ring haus golf over the past few months, but again this is very much a real minority exception rather than the rule.

It is my personal opinion that this is being blown out of proportion. My discussions with the guys over there have shown to me that as long as my car is well prepared and obeys the basic rules all will be ok.

On a final note I am one of the marshals you speak of and have been given no special instructions for 2008