Why are BMWs restricted to 155mph

[madaboutthe30]

Hey guys instead of doing work Im just having a discussion with the guys at uni about restrictors.

We searched on the net but cant find any ground information as to why new m3s, m5s m6s, are restricted to 155mph, I mean Audis, porsches of similar price range are capable of much higher speeds straight out of the showroom.

Is it the parts cant handle it? do they just not want people driving at such high speeds?


George

[bazza93]

are you sure they are restricted ! never heard of that ! rather buy a porshe gt2-3 then

[Chris-W]

It was an agreement between BMW / VAG / Mercedes Benz (and someone else?) to limit their cars to 155mph which hasn;t been very strictly adhered to as of late.

[madaboutthe30]

Why would they go and do a thing like that tho?

[Alyman]

From the Channel 4 automotive website:

"The German car makers are considering the abandonment of their "gentlemen's agreement" to limit the top speeds of most of their cars to 155mph, according to rumours on web forums. The faster models from Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen have electronic speed limiters fitted, though Porsche does not comply with this agreement, and drivers regularly test out their efficiency on still-unrestricted stretches of the autobahn system. However, with ever-easier access to aftermarket firms which can remove the electronic limiters, many manufacturer-approved modifications from the likes of AMG, Brabus, Alpina and so on which also offer higher top speeds, and ever-faster imported vehicles, the 155mph limit is now thought to be a put-off for those who like to brag exactly how fast their car can go, and how fast they've managed to go. Such drivers perhaps account for a large proportion of the declining German car market - but in order to satisfy them, manufacturers will presumably now have to start producing more cars which go beyond 156-160mph, the 'real' speed limits of many models which currently boast that they are "limited to 155mph"."

[Chris-W]

Why would they go and do a thing like that tho?

Because for while there was talk of the likelihood of government imposed limiters being introduced - same happened with bikes - so they did it voluntarily.

[StuBeeDoo]

Is it the parts cant handle it? do they just not want people driving at such high speeds?

Of course the parts can handle it. Except maybe not the nut that holds the steering wheel.
The other factor that may have influenced the agreement in the first place could have been compensation culture..... "I stacked my car at 165mph. The manufacturer should not have given the car the capability to go that fast when the driver hasn't the ability to control it. I'm going to sue the ass off them!"

[josh-hocking]

they have restrictors on them because the speed limit is 70mph!!!! however this can be removed! as i have done at work on a m3....all you have to do is know someone in the trade that can plug into the computer and reprogram

[Speedtouch]

I thought it was down to the tyre ratings for safety?

[maxfield]

they have restrictors on them because the speed limit is 70mph!!!! however this can be removed! as i have done at work on a m3....all you have to do is know someone in the trade that can plug into the computer and reprogram

I think there's a bit more to it than that, which M3?

[josh-hocking]

brand new '57' plate one!! its acually really simple!!

[Gussy]

I also thought it was for the safety rating of the tyres.

[bloom_meister]

M cars, from E36 onwards (including M5) have had so called 'soft limiters', these dont stop you at 155..
My E46 M3 could possibly go as high as 169 before it hit the rev limiter. Not that i have tried that of course, god forbid, that would be silly and highly illegal..

Non M class BMW's have fixed 155 limiters, both the M soft and the non M hard limiters can easily be removed with a quick fix in the engine management unit. Same thing for AMG's.


Tim

[G524]

The one that happened with bikes was 186mph (300kph). I was into bikes when this was being discussed a lot and it was mainly put there to stop bike manufacturers chasing the biggest top speed. It started with the Blackbird doing "200mph" followed by the Hayabusa doing "201mph" or something like that. Anyway, the idea was that manufacturers would work on other aspects of the riding experience - acceleration, handling, braking etc, and ignore the top speed race.

I must say, this has resulted in many great bikes being churned out - ZX10R, new GSXR's - with real riding quality, rather than the bland but rapid Super Tourers. So although all the speed freaks complained for a while, 10 years down the line we have some proper machines to ride. Not sure how this has worked with cars but i can imagine that it would have the same effect.

[ad318i]

It was an agreement between BMW / VAG / Mercedes Benz (and someone else?) to limit their cars to 155mph which hasn;t been very strictly adhered to as of late.

spot on.... most others are wrong..

The german g'ment had a choice of forcing limiters to go on cars or put speed limits on the autobahns... due to pressure from other political groups..

to save forced restrictions on the cars the gentlemens agreement was made between the car makers to restrict the cars to 155mph

and thus thats why it is

[Andyboy]

My E46 M3 could possibly go as high as 169

Tim

[bloom_meister]

My E46 M3 could possibly go as high as 169

Tim

Go read about gearing ratios
Then go read about the rev limit on an E46M3
apply some simple maths
then simply go away.
Tim

[Andyboy]

I'm surprised you haven't posted an Auto Trader photo of one yet! "This is my new toy' etc etc etc.


However, on the E46 press launch we couldn't get one to deliver more than an indicated 160.........

But Bloom My Dear Boy, I doubt BMW's press cars were as good as 'yours'.

FYI it's got nothing to do with the rev limiter - the 155 limiter is completely seperate - I'm surprised you didn't know that being an ex owner.

[bloom_meister]

I'm surprised you haven't posted an Auto Trader photo of one yet! "This is my new toy' etc etc etc.


However, on the E46 press launch we couldn't get one to deliver more than an indicated 160.........

But Bloom My Dear Boy, I doubt BMW's press cars were as good as 'yours'.

FYI it's got nothing to do with the rev limiter - the 155 limiter is completely seperate - I'm surprised you didn't know that being an ex owner.

Yes, the '155 limiter is completely seperate, thats the point, my post, if you actually read it, states the theoretical maximum speed of the car calculated from its actual rev limit and its final gearing.

My apologies if i didnt make it simple enough..

Tim

[Toby_Unna]

My E46 M3 could possibly go as high as 169 before it hit the rev limiter.

my e30 is geared for ~180mph at 6200rpm. but i don't go around telling people it 'could possibly go as high as 180' because it clearly can't!

[E30BeemerLad]

155mph limiter, if only

My jap turd still has the 112mph limiter on The top speed without the limiter is supposed to be 168

[fozzymandeus]

My E46 M3 could possibly go as high as 169

Tim

Go read about gearing ratios
Then go read about the rev limit on an E46M3
apply some simple maths
then simply go away.
Tim

Not wanting to court controversy, but arent you forgetting aerodynamics?

[bloom_meister]

Fozzy,

Dont know is the answer, was simply talking about gearing and rev limits

Tim

[Andyboy]

I'm surprised you haven't posted an Auto Trader photo of one yet! "This is my new toy' etc etc etc.


However, on the E46 press launch we couldn't get one to deliver more than an indicated 160.........

But Bloom My Dear Boy, I doubt BMW's press cars were as good as 'yours'.

FYI it's got nothing to do with the rev limiter - the 155 limiter is completely seperate - I'm surprised you didn't know that being an ex owner.

Yes, the '155 limiter is completely seperate, thats the point, my post, if you actually read it, states the theoretical maximum speed of the car calculated from its actual rev limit and its final gearing.

My apologies if i didnt make it simple enough..

Tim

If you make it as simple as you, then any idiot can understand - even your good self. My apologies if I made you look like an idiot - it's becoming a habit, albeit a highly enjoyable one!

[ChrisBarns]

Back to the original post....

IIRC in the '80s the Green Party were fairly sucessful in Germany. Because the Germans have PR small parties can have a big influence. The deal was between the big manufacturers and the government but was a jumped before pushed job.

[Andyboy]

They were big even in the Seventies. The greens made a lot of noise in German 'parliament' and forced BMW to remove the reverse script Turbo decal from the front spoiler.

A lot of Autobahns are restricted now which is a good thing. I've seen some absolutely horrific accidents over there - forget the 'damaged wing and 18 police cars' bollocks you see here, I'm talking body bags. Lets face it, 100 mph is enough.

[Gwynleym10]

This might interest you all..

"Why Germany put the brakes on"
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article3106915.ece

[Brianmoooore]

Following my first hand experience of what can happen on unrestricted German autobahns back in August, I was assured by several people, in the following days, that a speed limit is to be introduced by 2010.

[bloom_meister]

I'm surprised you haven't posted an Auto Trader photo of one yet! "This is my new toy' etc etc etc.


However, on the E46 press launch we couldn't get one to deliver more than an indicated 160.........

But Bloom My Dear Boy, I doubt BMW's press cars were as good as 'yours'.

FYI it's got nothing to do with the rev limiter - the 155 limiter is completely seperate - I'm surprised you didn't know that being an ex owner.

Yes, the '155 limiter is completely seperate, thats the point, my post, if you actually read it, states the theoretical maximum speed of the car calculated from its actual rev limit and its final gearing.

My apologies if i didnt make it simple enough.

Tim

If you make it as simple as you, then any idiot can understand - even your good self. My apologies if I made you look like an idiot - it's becoming a habit, albeit a highly enjoyable one!

Whats your problem Andy, you keep talking rubbish then apologising for it, thats 3 times you've apologised to me in the last week.

Take some advice, stick to facts and advice, you're very good at e30 help, I can see that, you obviously know a lot more than i do about them. Then again I know a lot more about some things than you do and I'm sure Bob around the corner knows things that neither of us know!

The point, is that its fine to offer advice and its fine to disagree, however this childish mudslinging is pathetic. If you think this type of behaviour makes you look 'good' then you are sorely mistaken, certainly going by the emails and PM's I have received about you.

Your obvious stalking of any post I make to add some trash talk and provocation is at best silly and at worst....obsessive? Be a man, if you cannot add anything constructive, simply move along to the next post where you can actually add something of value.

Finally, the press car from BMW was of course soft limited, eg the limiter had not been removed, BMW do not officially sanction the use of non standard vehicles for road test purposes, it would kind of defeat the point.

Mods, please sort this out, I know this isnt behaviour you condone.

Regards,

Tim

[darkchild]

Mr Bloom - If you read the home page you may have noticed that Andyboy is the King of banter. If you keep biting he'll keep dangling the carrot

However, you're not doing yourself any favours by falsely accusing him of gettting you banned; or by telling us you can't afford to buy a Zoner's car one moment and the next day showing us your new purchases and a car history and driveway that resembles that of the Sultan of Brunei.

[Andyboy]

Whats your problem Andy, you keep talking rubbish then apologising for it, thats 3 times you've apologised to me in the last week.

Take some advice, stick to facts

Well it's like this; the rev limiter and the speed limiter are two entirely separate things - that's a fact. The BMW press cars are EXACTLY THE SAME as the ones you buy. All M3's are limited to 155 mph - not the 165 mph the speedo might read. If that's rubbish, then we're all wrong except you. You claimed that your car would possibly do 169 mph.....no, it will not. At 155 mph the car stops accelerating.

The apologies are of course tongue in cheek. You should know that!

As for talking rubbish - well that's open to interpretation as I have not made any claims I cannot back up. We've yet to see any photos of this car you've bought but that's probably best left there to save any further aggro.

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Pwn3d

[d6dph]

Keep it civilised please gents.

Mr E, You will have a PM in about two minutes.

[maxfield]

Is Dave about to get the gimp suit out?

My Dad's old S4 showed over 170mph on the clocks, 155mph on the GPS. Albeit BMW and Audi aren't the same.

[bloom_meister]

Whats your problem Andy, you keep talking rubbish then apologising for it, thats 3 times you've apologised to me in the last week.

Take some advice, stick to facts

Well it's like this; the rev limiter and the speed limiter are two entirely separate things - that's a fact. The BMW press cars are EXACTLY THE SAME as the ones you buy. All M3's are limited to 155 mph - not the 165 mph the speedo might read. If that's rubbish, then we're all wrong except you. You claimed that your car would possibly do 169 mph.....no, it will not. At 155 mph the car stops accelerating.

The apologies are of course tongue in cheek. You should know that!

As for talking rubbish - well that's open to interpretation as I have not made any claims I cannot back up. We've yet to see any photos of this car you've bought but that's probably best left there to save any further aggro.

You really are either (a) unable to read or (b) so pained at being shown to be wrong that you ignore the facts as stated.

The SPEED limiter on M cars is a soft limiter that, depending who you ask, limits the cars speed to appx 163mph, this is different to the 155MPH hard limit for non M cars.

The revs on the car are not limited except by normal engine management software that prevents the engine from damage by over revving.

Disable the soft limiter and the engine can then go as fast as the BHP/aerodynamics allow, UP TO THE POINT where the engine reins in the revs to prevent damage to the engine.

I've driven an e46 M3 for 3 years, I know the car very well indeed. How many E46 M3's have you had Andy? because if you have not then I guess you dont know what you're talking about. (suprise).

Stick to the E30, you're good at those.

Tim