Fuel Starvation on sweping long bends

[Lloydie38]

Hi,

Fuel Starvation on sweping long bends

Yesterday I went to the track day here on the Isle of Man. The track was run clockwise to on sweeping right-handers with 4 progressice sweeps right and with 1/3 tank of fuel the car was spluttering. Once more fuel was added it stopped but obviously it would be nice to go run it on minimum fuel - nice and light.

What options have I got on track use fuel tanks, adjusting the existing?

Map of 1.5 mile track below..

[img][img]http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r117 ... dTrack.jpg[/img][/img]

3 Hours open pit lane for £60 - bargain

[shorty73]

Fill it with a foam baffle. Try Demon tweeks or GPR.

[JimmyC]

We have had untold problems with this in PBMW

2 options:

1) Swirl pot- allyproducts on here does them at a great price
2) We have been experimenting with fitting a golf pump, with integrated catch tank. Seems to have done the trick and a very easy fitment apparently. Will dig out the part numbers etc and post detail next week

Dont think a foam baffle will do the trick, thats more of a safety thing to remove vapour in the tanks- but not seen anyone try this so only guesswork on my part

[shorty73]

Your probably right but in the tweeks book is does say it reduces fuel slosh and aids fuel pick up. I've got it in my tank and have had no problems but my mate with a Lotus Sunbeam hasn't and he has to run at least half a tank. That said I do have a swirl pot as well!

Try here;

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ ... =ATLSF103Y

[M3GTR]

Hi - A foam baffle won't work on all circuits. You need to fit a swirl pot seperate to the tank. Fit it with a second pump too (Facet red top) to fill the swirl pot then a high pressure injection pump to send the fuel to the engine. I fitted this setup to my car (now owned by Shorty) and it ran without a single hitch ever since.

[shorty73]

That'll be why I've had no problems then!

[UweM3]

We have had untold problems with this in PBMW

2 options:

1) Swirl pot- allyproducts on here does them at a great price
2) We have been experimenting with fitting a golf pump, with integrated catch tank. Seems to have done the trick and a very easy fitment apparently. Will dig out the part numbers etc and post detail next week

Dont think a foam baffle will do the trick, thats more of a safety thing to remove vapour in the tanks- but not seen anyone try this so only guesswork on my part

I have problems with that as well. Can't really go under 1/4 of a tank.
Can I hassle you for the part numbers please. I have almost started to fabricate a swirl pot, but if the Golf pump does the trick I wouldn't mind to give that a go first.

I still have the 55ltr tank fitted (deleted the Aux tank in the boot) and might go for a 62ltr over the winter.

[M3GTR]

Found this on my PC if it helps at all!

[Lloydie38]

Fcuk me - it's like track day porn

Need more info, prices etc ...EVERYTHING really to get me running without fuel starvation.

I think it could be my new screen saver pic - sorry kids your orphens

[shorty73]

**** me - it's like track day porn

Hey that's my rear end your talking about!

I suppose I could send you some expicit close up's for a fee!!

[agreen]

what are all those pic in the pic above its all so confusing to me

[JimmyC]

That pic shows the fuel tank, the big box

The swirl pot, the smaller ally cylinder

2 pumps and a filter

All you need to stop fuel starvation is the swirlpot one pump (your tank already has one) and a filter

The tank is not needed to stop the fuel starvation

I'll chase up the golf part numbers as thats the simplest fix for fuel starvation we've found- Robin Welsch tested it and run the car empty with no starvation- empty as in he had to coast into the pit lane

[agreen]

ohh so a swirl post can be fitted witha normall tank and pump ??? why are there two pumps above who makes these swirl ports ???sorry for all the questions matey thanks

[JimmyC]

Theres 2 pumps above as the original tank with built in pump has been removed from the car, you need one pump to pump fuel into the swirl pot (the one in your original tank will do this), then another one to pump from the swirl pot to the engine.

Allyproducts on here does swirl pots at a good price, think a pump recommendation is above in this thread somewhere.

The fuel starvation occurs when the fuel in the original tank moves away from the pick up on cornering, due to the size, shape and pick position, means that when this surge happens the swirl pot keeps a constant supply, then after the surge the pick up continues to fill the sswirl pot

[agreen]

ohh cool so is it recommended an uprated fuel pump or nt then fella thanks for the helpp

[JimmyC]

Keep the standard pump in the tank to feed the swirl pot then a hi pressure injection pump to fuel the engine

[agreen]

cool i have spoken top a guy at alloy place from here about a swirl port but he is out so gonna call him back so now i need to find a hi ressure pump for the engine side of things

[pdd144c]

I can confirm that the Golf kit solves all the problems, did John send you the part numbers Jimmy? It's Paul from Xsport by the way! I'll be joining you all out in PBMW next year...

[JimmyC]

Hi Paul, be good to have you on board next year! Not got the part numbers yet from old man Willcocks, but seeing him tomorrow so he may have them then.

Unless you know them and fancy telling us how simple the install is?? If you do i'll copy and paste it all over to SELOC as I think a number of them are looking at this for the winter

[pdd144c]

Not off the top of my head, I'll try and send them across later. Very simple to install, we fitted Rob's in a few hours, it's just a case of re-routing a few fuel lines, running an electrical feed to the Golf pump, and attaching it all where the spare wheel used to be. May well be able to get some kind of group buy going on these kits...

[agreen]

yeh a group buy would be a good i dea i am very interested

[Lloydie38]

This is looking like a plan!

Thanks to all on this it's been a learning curve for me

[buster]

Hi guys,
After just doing my first track day at croft yesturday,i also experienced this as its mostly right hand bends.Mine only has the small 45 ltr tank and my engine is a thirsty bugger needing 5 bar pressure.Thats probably why my e30 was getting fuel starvation on long right hand bends with anything less than half a tank of fuel.
After reading this thread it seems i need a swirl pot.
My fuel pump pumps at 5 bar,will i need another pump to pump at 5 bar from the swirl pot ? If so any recommendations ? also im up for a group buy on a swirl pot.
cheers,
andy

[shorty73]

Speak to Nigel (alloyraceproducts) a www.carreracdh.co.uk about a group buy. He was willing to do one on the catch tanks and he's a really nice bloke!

[Silverfang]

Hi guys,
After just doing my first track day at croft yesturday,i also experienced this as its mostly right hand bends.Mine only has the small 45 ltr tank and my engine is a thirsty bugger needing 5 bar pressure.Thats probably why my e30 was getting fuel starvation on long right hand bends with anything less than half a tank of fuel.
After reading this thread it seems i need a swirl pot.
My fuel pump pumps at 5 bar,will i need another pump to pump at 5 bar from the swirl pot ? If so any recommendations ? also im up for a group buy on a swirl pot.
cheers,
andy

No you'd need a low pressure pump feeding the swirl pot and the 5 bar pump running from the swirl pot to the engine. The Swirl tank doesn't need a high pressure to maintain the head of fuel in it, 5 bar would probably make it explode!

[buster]

so the standard 3 bar one to feed the swirl pot would be ok ?

[Tom944]

After having the same problems yesterday at the tracktest, we're going for the catchtank option also. As we've got the fuelsupply system of a pre-facelift e30, the lowpressure pump located inside of the tank should be enough to fill a swirlpot with the external fuel pump pumping it thru to the engine.

[alloyproducts]

hi guys, i wil offer you lot a group buy if theres enough of you. i can offer 15% on upto 5 people and 20% for 6 or more. i would need to know what sizes to put on them, i think the 1.5litre capacity push on would be best. i do do a 1/4bsp on, but that would need extra fittings, which can then get costly. the swirl pots normally have 8mm feed in, return from engine, and return to tank, and 15mm outlet. i can do these to indivial sizes if people are running different pressure pumps.
if i could put pics up i would post one up now.

i will offer a group buy on the oil seperator catch tanks if theres enough interest.

[Tom944]

hi guys, i wil offer you lot a group buy if theres enough of you. i can offer 15% on upto 5 people and 20% for 6 or more. i would need to know what sizes to put on them, i think the 1.5litre capacity push on would be best. i do do a 1/4bsp on, but that would need extra fittings, which can then get costly. the swirl pots normally have 8mm feed in, return from engine, and return to tank, and 15mm outlet. i can do these to indivial sizes if people are running different pressure pumps.
if i could put pics up i would post one up now.

i will offer a group buy on the oil seperator catch tanks if theres enough interest.

Mail me the picture at -- and I'll post it here.

[fuzzy]

i used to use a swirl pot located in the boot with 2 external pumps. 1 low pressure pump to feed the swirl pot from the custom spare wheel well fuel cell and another high pressure pump feeding the fuel to the engine. no problems other than when i split the swirl pot and fuel cell in a heavy rear end hit causing petrol to spray around inside the totally stripped out cabin. only then did i learn that the plumbed in fire system that was meant to spray foam over me and the fuel cell in situations like this had an extra safety catch on it that hadnt been disconnected.
god bless the quick reactions of the fire brigade and my 'good fortune' to crash 100 metres away from the fire station and also the passing motorists that stopped to pull me from the wreckage after the rear end impact threw me and my harnessed up bucket seat into the back beside the split fuel system.
moral of this tale is if you are going to use fuel systems like this dont scrimp on the fire safety devices

[Tom944]

i used to use a swirl pot located in the boot with 2 external pumps. 1 low pressure pump to feed the swirl pot from the custom spare wheel well fuel cell and another high pressure pump feeding the fuel to the engine. no problems other than when i split the swirl pot and fuel cell in a heavy rear end hit causing petrol to spray around inside the totally stripped out cabin. only then did i learn that the plumbed in fire system that was meant to spray foam over me and the fuel cell in situations like this had an extra safety catch on it that hadnt been disconnected.
god bless the quick reactions of the fire brigade and my 'good fortune' to crash 100 metres away from the fire station and also the passing motorists that stopped to pull me from the wreckage after the rear end impact threw me and my harnessed up bucket seat into the back beside the split fuel system.
moral of this tale is if you are going to use fuel systems like this dont scrimp on the fire safety devices

True, and never ever have the fuelsystem or any hoses in your cockpit, unless it's an uninterupted hose. When you put a swirlpot in the trunk, completely cover the cockpit side of the "backseatrest" and board above your trunk with at least metal, aluminium or some sort of fireproof material.

[alloyproducts]

heres the pics

[Lloydie38]

Cheers Boys for the advice on the safety side - sometimes the keenness to get the car going with the new 'Bits' fitted, can cause safety matters to sometimes get forgotton or pushed aside...

Alloyproducts - PM for you - Cheque book ready - love to get this sorted for the next track day in Nov and then fly through the sweeping bends with not a splutter in sight!!

[oldroydsr4]

Very interested to,

it would be good to get more than 6

[Lloydie38]

Swirl pot and pump ordered to get fitted for next track day