5Forum link RR day

[daimlerman]

There is no doubt that this car was the most interesting dyno run.My concerns are only that my eta based special made a similar BHP figure,with 200cc or so more!! I guess that when the graphs arrive(still waiting)the torque figures may shed some light.But that was a very tidy sport,I got the impression that it has been in the same family from delivery,so it's history is well documented.It will be very odd if Thursday's run produces a figure of 171BHP......

[bss325i]

There is no doubt that this car was the most interesting dyno run.My concerns are only that my eta based special made a similar BHP figure,with 200cc or so more!! I guess that when the graphs arrive(still waiting)the torque figures may shed some light.But that was a very tidy sport,I got the impression that it has been in the same family from delivery,so it's history is well documented.It will be very odd if Thursday's run produces a figure of 171BHP......

The car hasn't been in my family since new but the previous owner to me is a friend and coleague and the previous owner to him was a close friend of his family who owned it from new. The guy bought it new when he was in his seventys and passed away in his eightys and used the car less and less untill his death hence the very low milage. My friend bought it with arround 27000 miles on it and also used it little putting approx 5000 miles on it in 5 years after which i bought it with approx 32000 and i have put 10000 miles on it since july last year.
I too still haven't recieved my graph from sat but i know what my tourque figure was as i asked the opperater straight after the run. The tourque figure is even more bizzar than the power figure but i'm not going to disclose it untill i get the graph and post it up for all to see.

[oakey]

Barry does it feel as fast as the figures suggest? How does it go compared to the cab?

[bss325i]

It is quick and very torquey. I would say from a stand still it is quicker than the cab but there is very little in it. You can feel that the cab has a cam in it as it pulls hard at the top of the rev range. Initialy i thought the cab was quicker but i have to say there is very little in it.

[daimlerman]

Almost a week from the run day and we are still waiting for our graphs,shame,the day went so well....

[jam172]

Almost a week from the run day and we are still waiting for our graphs,shame,the day went so well....

Tusker the organiser has this in hand.

[bss325i]

Right i had the car on two dyno's on thursday and i got the results i thought i would! The first dyno was a prehistoric bosch 2wd dyno with a cooling fan that was more like a hair dryer and the machine that printed the graph looked like a lie detector or something. Anyway the result on that i got on that one was 156 bhp and that was worked out from kw as that is units that dyno measures in! It didnt measure torque either!
They also have a dyno dynamics dyno all be it a brand new one and said that the opperator could have made a mistake with something when setting the dyno for my car and would be able to tell from some additional data which is at the bottom of the print out, just a pity i still haven't recieved my print out from DS automotives.
!
On the off chance i poped into Bexleys which is in the next road to see if they could put my car on their dyno and as luck would have it they could do it so after a run on their SUN dyno with a large centrefugal cooling fan my car made 170.3 bhp and 170.5 lbft of tourque which i was more than happy with as this is what i hoped for last sat!

While speaking with sal from the Evo-s (zone shop) about purchasing a btb manifold and other bits, mentioned all this dyno malarky and and told me he to has just got a dyno dynamics dyno so suggested giving it a go on his so i'm off up there tomorrow to give it a go. He also mentioned that DS automotives Dyno is the oldest one in the country and have heard of other people getting over readings from them.

From the results i got from DS, 195.5 bhp and a ridiculous 210 lbft of tourque, the only conclusion i have come to is either their dyno is over reading or they made a mistake setting the dyno for my car. Either way i doubt i'd get a refund!

[B7]

Right i had the car on two dyno's on thursday and i got the results i thought i would! The first dyno was a prehistoric bosch 2wd dyno with a cooling fan that was more like a hair dryer and the machine that printed the graph looked like a lie detector or something. Anyway the result on that i got on that one was 156 bhp and that was worked out from kw as that is units that dyno measures in! It didnt measure torque either!
They also have a dyno dynamics dyno all be it a brand new one and said that the opperator could have made a mistake with something when setting the dyno for my car and would be able to tell from some additional data which is at the bottom of the print out, just a pity i still haven't recieved my print out from DS automotives.
!
On the off chance i poped into Bexleys which is in the next road to see if they could put my car on their dyno and as luck would have it they could do it so after a run on their SUN dyno with a large centrefugal cooling fan my car made 170.3 bhp and 170.5 lbft of tourque which i was more than happy with as this is what i hoped for last sat!

While speaking with sal from the Evo-s (zone shop) about purchasing a btb manifold and other bits, mentioned all this dyno malarky and and told me he to has just got a dyno dynamics dyno so suggested giving it a go on his so i'm off up there tomorrow to give it a go. He also mentioned that DS automotives Dyno is the oldest one in the country and have heard of other people getting over readings from them.

From the results i got from DS, 195.5 bhp and a ridiculous 210 lbft of tourque, the only conclusion i have come to is either their dyno is over reading or they made a mistake setting the dyno for my car. Either way i doubt i'd get a refund!

Don't be too disappointed. 170bhp from the sport is something to be proud about. She's a healthy low miler who's right on form and still virtually factory fresh. A keeper for sure.

[ShepsEvo3]

Maybe if you travel the country and test your car on every make of dyno, atleast you can take an average of all the readings and take it that average figure is approximately what your car is producing, power and torque!

But getting way off readings from a dyno is frustrating to say the least. They need to atleast back it up with data as to why the car is producing so much, or not enough power. If not enough, it may not be down to the engine, it could be something else

[fuzzy]

oh well. i had my money on the original dyno being right and you being mistaken on the "no mods" statement
well who would have thought it? can any r/r power figure really be trusted again?

[bss325i]

oh well. i had my money on the original dyno being right and you being mistaken on the "no mods" statement
well who would have thought it? can any r/r power figure really be trusted again?

As i said previously my sport IS standard (but not for long! )and i dont bullsh*t about my cars. As i said right at the begining of this thread i didnt take the original figure as gospel and needed to prove it was wrong. 210 lbft from a standad 2.5?

[ShepsEvo3]

210 for a standard 325i isn't right, you are right! lol.

I have had standard 325i's on my dyno on the last E30 dyno day and all were around the 170BHP mark. Ron Parish's 325i made just over 170BHP too for comparison. My dyno measures transmission losses too, which isn't a dig at other dyno's, but it does measure for and compensates for bigger wheels, binding brakes and worn wheel bearings for instance. Looking at the same model of car on our dyno database, there were differences in the losses (power between wheel power and flywheel power) but the flywheel power ends up the same or very similar to eachother, which gives me great confidence in my DASTEK dyno.

Also for what its worth, Jim Camerons car made the exact same figures on my dyno after his 'Ring trip as it did when I mapped the car before his 'Ring trip. So maybe there is a dyno that is more accurate/repeatable than others?

[M5pilot]

Barry, the 195 bhp could have been given due to the air intake probe being put in the wrong place and the 210 lb.ft torque was probably a combination of incorrect probe location and incorrect tacho calibration.

I have been to a dyno day at DS Automotives.

Standard e36 323i (170 bhp) put down 208 bhp....
3.0 M3 gives 316 bhp...
e28 328i (stock) 205+ bhp (yeah ok...)

I have a fairly good idea why some cars put down silly figures and it's nothing to do with the machine itself.

I recently had a guy visit me with his heavily modded 328i. At DSA it put down 260+ bhp. It gave 241 bhp on my dyno (which is what is to be expected given the mods). It gave 241 bhp at Surrey rolling road aswell which is the same dyno on the same day.

The Bexley dyno has always shown to be very consistent and fairly accurate. My M5 and Immy's Z3M put down within 5 bhp of what they did at Bexleys, another highly modified Z3M put down 332 bhp there and then 335 bhp at our place.

Most of the modern dyno's are fairly accurate but only in the right hands. So many operators get basic things wrong such as putting the air intake probe in the wrong place or strapping the cars down too hard.

ANY dyno can give figures which are way out, it's all down to how the machine is used and how "scientific" the dyno operator is.

Cooling also tends to be a big issue but the one thing Evo-S, Sheps and Bexleys have is what I believe to be the best fan in the industry....the Dastek 20 bhp centrifugal monster fan.

I am quite sure that Barry's car will be putting down very close to what it did at Bexley's on our Dyno.

We'll get some dyno graphs and pictures up tommorrow.

Barry will also get a very in depth understanding of how a dyno should be operated and what causes over/under reading.

Evo-S

[daimlerman]

This is all very interesrting stuff,but Barry's sport was the only odd reading.All the other cars made more or less what was expected.I had no idea what my 2.7 would make,but 189BHP does seem belivable to me,what do the rest of you think?

[B7]

This is all very interesrting stuff,but Barry's sport was the only odd reading.All the other cars made more or less what was expected.I had no idea what my 2.7 would make,but 189BHP does seem belivable to me,what do the rest of you think?

It was very strange that Barrys standard car was some way above a 2.7. Thats the first thing I spotted. Be intersting to get yours on Bexleys RR as it seems the general opinion is that they know how to set it up. Have you ever had it RR'd before? 189 is certainly somewhere near where I'd expect a 2.7 to be. How was your torque figure compared to Barry's?

The other thing I find strange is the lack of Graphs from the day DSA.

[daimlerman]

I was so exited with the BHP reading and the query about the minor overfueling that I forgot to ask about the torque figure!! I expected a graph by now....how would Sal feel about hosting a run day at his place? I understand that he is based in Bedford so it is reasonably central...these things are adictive...

[bss325i]

Just got back from Sal's after spending most of the day there with my sport. The reading i got on his dyno dynamics dyno was 161.2 bhp and 161 lbft tourque from my standard car which goes to show something was up the the result i got from DSA's DD dyno. After showing Sal the graphs i got from sanspeed and bexleys he explained the differences between the bosch, sun and dyno dynamics dynos respectively and the different parameters that they mesured, the different data that the dyno requires and the different sensors that the dyno uses to pick up data from the car. He also explained how incrorrectly setting up the various parts of the dyno could effect the final reading for example incorect placement of the air intake temp probe. To say he was thorough in explaining all this in detail would be an understatement and from the impression i got, Sal's approach to all this is very scientific but then that would explain the difference someone who specialises in interpreting data and acurate programing and someone who specialises in mechanical repairs. I would deffinately recommend his services to anyone. Another test we did was to see the difference an induction kit would make to a standard, healthy 2.5 and to prove the mith wrong about some induction kits loosing power because of high underbonnet temps. After fitting an ITG inudction kit the car made 165.9 bhp and 164 lbft with an even gain accross the rev range. We checked the air intake temps at idle with both standard air filter and housing compared to the ITG induction kit with only a marginal difference of a couple of degrees. The most important thing was that the intake temps dropped to near ambient temps when the car was run on the rollers with the fan in place and in real world terms on the road with air flow to the front of the car, the intake temps would only rise when stationary but will quickly fall when on the move again. I drivablilty terms the main improvement is throtle response with a noticeable but small gain in performance more so at higher rpm.
From todays experience i have learnt alot more about dyno's and engine mapping than i already knew, all be it a small amount.

Malcom (daimlerman) i spoke with Sal about organising a dyno day and he is up for it so i may begin to organise this soon.

[oakey]

thats a pretty good gain from the ITG

[bss325i]

thats a pretty good gain from the ITG

I also like the noise. Sounds standard untill about 4500-5000 rpm then a nice, not to loud induction noise.

[daimlerman]

Well done Barry,at least that puts to bed all the niggles about your run.My feeling is that the other runs were accurite( ish!!)I would certainly be up for a go on Sals dyno.Perhaps we can ask him to give us a 'classroom' session so that we all learn a bit as well.Howabout asking Jamie to post on the 5ers forum....still no graph BTW.

[bss325i]

Well done Barry,at least that puts to bed all the niggles about your run.My feeling is that the other runs were accurite( ish!!)I would certainly be up for a go on Sals dyno.Perhaps we can ask him to give us a 'classroom' session so that we all learn a bit as well.Howabout asking Jamie to post on the 5ers forum....still no graph BTW.

Im in talks with Sal about a date and we will need between 12 and 20 cars for it to go ahead. I will post something up in meets and events tonight.

[M5pilot]

Well done Barry,at least that puts to bed all the niggles about your run.My feeling is that the other runs were accurite( ish!!)I would certainly be up for a go on Sals dyno.Perhaps we can ask him to give us a 'classroom' session so that we all learn a bit as well.Howabout asking Jamie to post on the 5ers forum....still no graph BTW.

Come down and I will explain everything I did to Barry. It will all start making sense to you and nothing is hard to understand.

Remember, if you want to come down your most welcome, your not saving a huge amount of money waiting for a dyno day.

Evo-S

[Simon13]

interesting reading.....

[pacerpete]

So come on Sal when is the zone dyno day and barbecue ? I will bring the sausages !

[M5pilot]

It's coming soon don't worry!

You and your Sausages

Evo-S

[daimlerman]

Good idea to include a barbie....

[bss325i]

So come on Sal when is the zone dyno day and barbecue ? I will bring the sausages !

Look in the meets section fella.