5Forum link RR day

[jam172]

For those who are interested, here are some pics of yesterdays RR day and the results, there are a couple of E30's with good results.

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=18164

[touringandy]

looks like it w as a good day

[daimlerman]

Tusker (like most folk)had problems with my handwriting.The entry on the results list that reads 'Martin Webster 520i with modified eta',should have read,'Malcolm Webster(daimlerman)320i with 2.7.I was well pleased with the 189BHP that mine showed,a comment on the link refering to the Miller MAF refers to my car,the graph showed that it is overfueling a little in the mid range,not enough to cause problems but I may be able to eliminate it with a better cam/exhaust....this was an very well organized event,the 5ers are a great bunch of grown up lads.Many thanks to them for the invite to join them.

[bss325i]

Was a great day out with very good cars and very good company, ie no prima donna and the like.

Was very pleased with my 325i's result!

[daimlerman]

I bet you were That is one very minty sport.It could win you cups in the right event

[jam172]

I'm really glad you both enjoyed yourselves, perhaps a few more Zoners to even things up, or better still organise one for yourselves and invite some 5' along for good measure?

[Jon_Bmw]

Where are the graphs!

[jam172]

Where are the graphs!

They had a problem with their printer, graphs are being emailed, i take it you have seen the result for the 325i Sport, no one could have been more suprised than we were 195.5 BHP and the 2.7 at 189BHP, you had to be there

Dyno don't lie, there were also quite a few 5 owners with egg on their faces

[maxfield]

Every Dyno lies, no Dyno is accurate. They come close but not accurate...

[jam172]

Every Dyno lies, no Dyno is accurate. They come close but not accurate...

And your point is?

[maxfield]

You said Dyno doesn't like and some people might get the wrong impression.

[jam172]

You said Dyno doesn't like and some people might get the wrong impression.

I would say IMHO that picking one of the other cars at random, an E28 528i, conveted to an M5, with the original 24v engine, that from new produced 286BHP showed 275 BHP was realistic, others with E28 m535i's with extensive mods showed 230BHP (stock 218BHP) and standard one's between 209-215BHP with no mods, in my book the Dyno results are realistic

[maxfield]

Yes I would say they are realistic and quite accurate.

[jam172]

Yes I would say they are realistic and quite accurate.

I'd agree with you until they put my E28 528i on the rollers, stock 184BHP, it has only done 51000 miles (1987) mods are, 6 branch s/s manifold, s/s performance system, chipped uk remap (suspect), well chuffed at 202.9 BHP what a result

[bss325i]

As soon as my graph is emailed to me i will post it up.

[bss325i]

Every Dyno lies, no Dyno is accurate. They come close but not accurate...

I would say from the impression i got from the place, they are not the sort of outfit to have an inacurate dyno. The place is DS Automotive in Ayelsbury, a porsche and jap car specialist with a dyno dynamics 1800bhp 4wd rolling road.
I'm still not convinced about my result so will get it done on another dyno and compare.

[ShepsEvo3]

Every Dyno lies, no Dyno is accurate. They come close but not accurate...

I would say from the impression i got from the place, they are not the sort of outfit to have an inacurate dyno. The place is DS Automotive in Ayelsbury, a porsche and jap car specialist with a dyno dynamics 1800bhp 4wd rolling road.
I'm still not convinced about my result so will get it done on another dyno and compare.

Come to me Ours isn't a Dyno Dynamics machine though

[bss325i]

Every Dyno lies, no Dyno is accurate. They come close but not accurate...

I would say from the impression i got from the place, they are not the sort of outfit to have an inacurate dyno. The place is DS Automotive in Ayelsbury, a porsche and jap car specialist with a dyno dynamics 1800bhp 4wd rolling road.
I'm still not convinced about my result so will get it done on another dyno and compare.

Come to me Ours isn't a Dyno Dynamics machine though

I dont want to put it on another Dyno Dynamics one, got to be a different one for a fair comparison.

[daimlerman]

I felt that my result was fair,for Maxfield to make one of his sweeping 'generalizations',when he has no means of proving his case,is about par for the course!!

[beardymat]

looked like a fun day out to me, lots of nice five`s to oggle at too

me and a couple of other zoners have got m20 2.8`s in the pipeline which will all be in varying states of tune. already been thinking of a dyno day to see what the results are so there could be something there depending on how far people are willing to travel.

[daimlerman]

Matt,My round trip was about 250 miles,worth every penny for the crack and the fun.Be sure to let me know what your plans are.Perhaps,if Maxfield can pass his driving test,he will be prepared to put his money where his mouth is....

[march109]

Technically MAx is correct however he hasn't explained himself (or understands) what hes saying properly.

No Dyno will ever be 100% accurate, each model uses a different correction algorithm and other factors such as the weather on the day will affect the result. Take the same cars to a different dyno on the same day and I garauntee they will give different power figures, run them on the same dyno on another day and again I garauntee you will get different figures again thats just fact.

However as all the cars were run on the same dyno on the same day under the same conditions then it would be fair to directl compare each car to another.

BSS325i - if you run it on another dyno what do you hope to achieve? you can't compare it to your previous run as none of the variables are the same of course the power will read different.

The way to use a dyno to help tune your car ideally would be to take a selection of parts with you, for arguments sake air filters and run the car stock and then run the car with different filters simply choose the best, however as most people can't afford this approach you SHOULD only use the BHP figure as a guide (its not accurate enough or even correct to assume the BHP given is gospel), make a few mods take it back to the same dyno and run it again, if you've gained power then you'll be chuffed, if not find out whats gone wrong. Dno runs just tell you if you've gained power or not and no more.

you can feel the same effect the weather has on your cars performance when you compare the way it drives on a hot summers day to a cool winters morning. My favorite time of year to give my car a 'blast' are crisp winter mornings (especially if the tarmac is damp and there are a few roundabouts!).

[fuzzy]

another run on a different dyno will give a slightly different figure but will be in the same ballpark as the old figure therefore confirming its authenticity. 195bhp from a stock 325? no chance imo .a previous owner must have tuned and not declared. a r/r figure is a cklose enough guide for our purposes unless you are a serious big bhp tuned track/event/show car .if you use the same dyno all the time it will give an accurate guide after each mod.

[daimlerman]

Alan Tusker,the event organizer(and a top fellow to boot) did just as March 109 suggests.He proved that a K@N panel filter gave him 1.6 more BHP...Of course each dyno will produce different fiqures for the same car,BHP is afterall only one measure of power,when at the dawn of motoring a means of describing the power of an engine wes needed,the simple comparision was to refer to the amount of work that a horse could perform.I would expect that some dynos will use Shetland ponys and others Shire horses.....It would appear that the 5 forum use the Alyesbury machine on a regular basis,so repeat runs after improvment work will give a meaningfull figure.As far as my car goes,the screen graph just put the figures in to what my arse dyno had already told me,ie,that my engine comes 'on cam' at 2000rpm and it fades away above 5000rpm.The fueling line also confirmed that in the midrange(3000rpm-5000rpm)the ecu is overfueling slightly,this I had noted from the ecometer thingy showing a lower reading when cruising in this paart or the revrange.This is not realy a problem as it is a road speed of above 80mph(which I never do anyway officer).I had put this down to the brick -like areodynamic shape of the E30....

[bss325i]

Technically MAx is correct however he hasn't explained himself (or understands) what hes saying properly.

No Dyno will ever be 100% accurate, each model uses a different correction algorithm and other factors such as the weather on the day will affect the result. Take the same cars to a different dyno on the same day and I garauntee they will give different power figures, run them on the same dyno on another day and again I garauntee you will get different figures again thats just fact.

However as all the cars were run on the same dyno on the same day under the same conditions then it would be fair to directl compare each car to another.

BSS325i - if you run it on another dyno what do you hope to achieve? you can't compare it to your previous run as none of the variables are the same of course the power will read different.

The way to use a dyno to help tune your car ideally would be to take a selection of parts with you, for arguments sake air filters and run the car stock and then run the car with different filters simply choose the best, however as most people can't afford this approach you SHOULD only use the BHP figure as a guide (its not accurate enough or even correct to assume the BHP given is gospel), make a few mods take it back to the same dyno and run it again, if you've gained power then you'll be chuffed, if not find out whats gone wrong. Dno runs just tell you if you've gained power or not and no more.

you can feel the same effect the weather has on your cars performance when you compare the way it drives on a hot summers day to a cool winters morning. My favorite time of year to give my car a 'blast' are crisp winter mornings (especially if the tarmac is damp and there are a few roundabouts!).

I'm fully aware of what your saying about variations in output on different dyno's and different conditions but what i'm trying to achieve by testing it on another dyno is to see if i get a similar reading ie arround the 190 mark.

[bss325i]

another run on a different dyno will give a slightly different figure but will be in the same ballpark as the old figure therefore confirming its authenticity. 195bhp from a stock 325? no chance imo .a previous owner must have tuned and not declared. a r/r figure is a cklose enough guide for our purposes unless you are a serious big bhp tuned track/event/show car .if you use the same dyno all the time it will give an accurate guide after each mod.

Yes this is what i am trying to find out! If on another dyno it gives a similar reading ie around the 190 mark. The car is a stock 325i, NO MODS WHATSOEVER! I know the history of this car from new and it has NEVER had ANY modifications. This is whats so bizzar and why i need to find out on another dyno. It has only done 42k and even still has the CO adjustment screw factory blue blanking plug in place. The previous day of the dyno run i changed the air, fuel and oil filters for OE ones and castrol magnatech 10W40 part synthetic oil. NGK plugs, cap and arm were done 3k previous and was running on Esso super unleaded on the day so is in fine fettle. Whats even more bizzar is the tourque figure but ill wait till the graph is emailed to me before i disclose this and ill just post it up so you can all see. As soon as i saw the results i knew there would be doubters if i posted them up and belive me i to am confused so this is why i need to put it on another dyno.

[Jon_Bmw]

I'm just interested in the graph, i'll pass judgement on the dyno accuracy as its not really my field or anything to do with me!

Acomparison on another dyno would be interesting, just to see what sort of difference, if any, there is in the figures.

[1an]

ill put ,y opinion accross once i have seen a graph.

[bryang]

I put my car on straight after bss325(sorry mate forgot your name) and it made 224BHP, which is fair enough for a remapped E34 535, 2 cars later a stock E34 535 made 209BHP so you would have to say the readings are not being "massaged" by the dyno..as all the other cars results indicated on the day.

Once you have a second dyno result the non believers are going to have to except your car is a fit un mate!

[1an]

I put my car on straight after bss325(sorry mate forgot your name) and it made 224BHP, which is fair enough for a remapped E34 535, 2 cars later a stock E34 535 made 209BHP so you would have to say the readings are not being "massaged" by the dyno..as all the other cars results indicated on the day.

Once you have a second dyno result the non believers are going to have to except your car is a fit un mate!

a remapped e34 535 making 224 bhp now that i believeable. aswell as a stock 535 making 209bhp as that is whatthey produced as standard roughly i beleive, but there is no way that the e30 325 sport is standard.

[fuzzy]

no ones doubting the r/r. the doubt is in the 'stock' claim. i cant believe an engine thats considered hard to get 200bhp by most unless turbo'd or heavily modded will be producing 195bhp as standard.
i will graciously accept defeat if proved wrong though.

[Chris-W]

Like, maybe, having the car put on a dyno?

[fuzzy]

Like, maybe, having the car put on a dyno?

its not something that can proved as unless the owner strips down the engine to prove its unmodified then there will always be the doubters.
not that it matters really as 195bhp modified or not is a good figure to have.

[bss325i]

Right i have booked the car in to be dyno'ed on thursday at Sanspeed in Bexleyheath on a Bosch R/R. They also have a Dyno Dynamics R/R there as well which is the one my STANDARD sport was Dyno'ed on. If my car puts out arround the 190 mark then i will be very happy and have proved the doubters wrong. The car has never been touched and as i said before i know the history of the car. It has a standard exhaust and manifold, standard air filter, standard throttle body, standard cam and the ECU has not been touched. The CO has never even been adjusted.I am not one to bullsh*t about anything especialy my car! Other Zoners have seen this car under the bonnet and 1 zoner (Simon13) has also driven it I too am very sceptical of the reading i got and know this is an unrealistic figure for a standard M20B25 so need to find this out for myself and not so i can willy wave to everyone. I was reluctant to even mention it on the zone because of what the reaction would be, it was only because someone noticed it on the link to the 5 forum that someone else posted up and started to doubt that my car wasn't standard which is totaly understandable. I guess thursday will be judgement day.

[B7]

Other Zoners have seen this car under the bonnet and 1 zoner (Simon13) has also driven it.

I'll vouch for it. I know this car well and it is BOG standard. Under the bonnet it is as it came out the factory right down to the manifold gaskets / heat sheilds. It's amazingly orginal under the hood by which I mean everything is factory standard but not brand new if that makes any sense.

I also convoyed with it to Gaydon and it certainly seemed no quicker than my cab that day and believe me, we were not hanging about either!!!

When Barry text me on Sunday with the figure I too was amazed. Thursday will be interesting to say the least. I bet all the guys who thought theirs made realistic figures are wondering too

Barry, And you were saying your cab felt quicker??? Get that one on the rollers.