Emerald triple maps

[Andy335Touring]

My ECU is on it's way back from Emerald with the latest O/S which gives me three maps that can be stored on the ECU which can be selected at the flick of a switch, i'm wondering what different sort of maps you could do ?

My three so far is.......

1. Race, sod the fuel economy, maximum power every where
2. Road, more economy on light throttle/cruising revs
3. Wet, play with the fueling/timing at peak torque so the power delivery is more linear or doesn't come on cam so hard

[Kos]

my 3 will be

1 every day road, low boost 10 psi

2 fun map fast road 15 psi

3 i'm taking out that f-kin ferarri which has pulled uo next to me map, 20 psi and nitrous

[e30bmlover]

3 i'm taking out that f-kin ferarri which has pulled up next to me map, 20 psi and nitrous

how much nitrous is needed?? a 100 shot??

[Andy335Touring]

It should be a very handy feature on your turbo beasty, i supose another way to do it is to have a different map depending which gear you're in ?

1+2 7psi
3 10psi
4+ 5 15psi

????

[Kos]

3 i'm taking out that f-kin ferarri which has pulled up next to me map, 20 psi and nitrous

how much nitrous is needed?? a 100 shot??

well going by these estimates

1300kg weight of car including passeneger and fuel

400bhp at 16-18 psi of boost, gives me 307bhp/per ton

a 50 shot of gas will give me 346 bhp per ton, but it will be quicker than 450bhp because of the way nitrous works ( it 50 bhp through out the rev range, not just peak power) also, it will cool the inlet charger temp to i'm sure to get more than 50hp with a 50 hp shot , follow ??

[Gunni]

There is no need for fuel economy map and max power map, that can all be mapped trough throttle position and manifold pressure (loads)

What you could do is a high octane , high oxygenated map, where MBT needs more ignition.

Then a 95okt map if you can get to your MBT at 95okt. No need for Vpower / 99okt fuel.

MBT is minimum best timing,
getting good economy comes from low load mbt and lean mixtures.

[e30bmlover]

ah i get ya, i would love a turbo 325, show them scooby boys who and what the real deal is with some bavarian muscle! i want to see porsche owners weeping.

[Kos]

andy, nearer the time i'll get its sorted, but every map can have set boort limiter per gear and at a set rpm, i'm sure emerald is cabable of this. i know the latest DTA is.

oh an before i get shot down for the ferarri comment, i dont expect to beat one, but possible keep up with a 355 or be with him to an extent will keep me happy and deffo embarase the driver ! LoL

in its previos life it ,would keep with an e46 m3 easily off the lights , come 100 mph i'd pull away , then i had to brake for traffic lights.

i'm hoping to get in to the 12 sec on the 1/4 mile

[Kos]

There is no need for fuel economy map and max power map, that can all be mapped trough throttle position and manifold pressure (loads)

What you could do is a high octane , high oxygenated map, where MBT needs more ignition.

Then a 95okt map if you can get to your MBT at 95okt. No need for Vpower / 99okt fuel.

MBT is minimum best timing,
getting good economy comes from low load mbt and lean mixtures.

ppint taken on fuel grades, but i'd run it an 98 all the time. the daily map would obviously mapped to be able to run safely on 95 okt.

i'm not an engine mapping guru, but i know what i want and hopefully who ever maps it will be able to work with me !

any mapper who actually knows what they are doing would map it safely and take into account differnt air temps and variation in real wold driving

[Andy335Touring]

There is no need for fuel economy map and max power map, that can all be mapped trough throttle position and manifold pressure (loads)

What you could do is a high octane , high oxygenated map, where MBT needs more ignition.

Then a 95okt map if you can get to your MBT at 95okt. No need for Vpower / 99okt fuel.

MBT is minimum best timing,
getting good economy comes from low load mbt and lean mixtures.

Thats an idea, a map for normal unleaded and one for super unleaded, shame there isn't a Tescos around near me that sells that super 99 ron(?) petrol.

Normal unleaded is cheaper so it's more economical

Dave Walker knows what he's doing with the mapping, top bloke.

[Andy335Touring]

andy, nearer the time i'll get its sorted,

How far off is it from getting to the mapping stage ?

[Kos]

andy, nearer the time i'll get its sorted,

How far off is it from getting to the mapping stage ?

no engine in it yet !! i've set my self a atget date to have the car ready ( well running at least )

[gareth]

how about this for say a 335i turbo...
1) a LPG economic map for everyday road use
2) performance 99 RON petrol mode (track days / having a blat / run out of LPG!)
3) LPG / petrol hybrid massive boost mode, mainly LPG until very high boost when the petrol comes in too? saves bigger injectors etc...?

remembering that LPG would come out of the bottle COLD so good for FI...

[Kos]

ot bothered about LPG, but maps along thoes lines is what will be done.

[gareth]

i really want to explore LPG due to the higher octane rating and the fact it's chilled when it expands from the bottle. in theory, it's got far more potential then petrol for FI engines. being cheaper is a bonus too!

[Kos]

maybe but its more money for me to invest , and i cant be bothered in all honesty. one day maybe but for now i'm concentrating on getting the car completed for next year

[gareth]

hehe! i have aprt of a LPG kit but my priority is getting the car reliable and drivable first! i've been E30less for 18 months and i just want to play now it's running! i can't see me taking it off the road for a while yet!

[Andy335Touring]

I've been tempted by LPG but cost and wieght gain put me off, it's not my DD so fuel bills arn't a big thing at the mo.

[mattG]

Might explore LPG as the way i'm driving is only getting me 190mls per tank

[bootyman]

Mine is hopefully getting it's final mapping today. Completly rebuilt M20 with twin T3 turbos and 150bhp of Noz and it's getting mapped for only 1 style of driving. GO, GO, GO. It's my toy and not an every day car so not bothered about petrol consumption. Just gooing woosh every chance i get

[gareth]

sounds sweeeeeet! keep us posted!

[Andy335Touring]

Well, i got the ECU back and the car fires up OK.

Prior to sending the ECU off Toby kindly helped me by coming over to lend me a hand and let me use his lap top, i'd just swaped to the twin TB and wanted to be able to play with the fueling if it didn't run OK. Luck would have it that it fired up(a tad reluctantly) and ran if i kept a bit of throttle on and hold the revs up slightly, it ran progresivly smoother as it warmed up then once warm we opened the throttle stop up/recalibrated the TPS/added a couple of clicks of fuel and it idled sweet.

What wasn't so sweet was the WB02 sensor out put on the data logging display, it was all over the shop and unuseable, one of the main reasons for the updated software for the ECU is because it has more useable features to getting the best out of the WB02 like a smoothing feature.

Took the car out and it drives not to bad considering the only thing we changed was the tick over fueling, it flufs a tad on light throttle below 1.5k rpm. I had a quick blast up to about 4k rpm which it ran fine but i didn't take it any further incase my AFR's were unsafely weak.

Mr Walker is booked up all this month so if i can sort the WOT AFR's out i'll be running on the strip otherwise i'll just spectate

Sorry about the wiring and duct tape(! ) but here's a pic Toby took for me.

[bootyman]

Sorry about the wiring and duct tape(! )

Looks like spageti junction

Yep Dave is mega busy. He's off on Holiday, back the 11th of Oct then i'm off to see him again myself

[gareth]

it's organised chaos!!!!

[jaistanley]

Incidentally.. Does anyone know if Emerald have added continuous VVT (or in our case VANOS for S50B30 and S50B32's)?

I'd like a dual map for my S50, and the ability to run alpha N so I can use a carbon plenum.

Jai

[daimlerman]

I think that I would have a very 'tame' map for 'er indoors...and hide the changeover switch....

[Andy335Touring]

Incidentally.. Does anyone know if Emerald have added continuous VVT (or in our case VANOS for S50B30 and S50B32's)?

I'd like a dual map for my S50, and the ability to run alpha N so I can use a carbon plenum.

Jai

Sorry i missed this post, i think it does user adjustable switching point type switch over and continuous VVT but i can't be too sure, see if these screen grabs make sense ?

[Andy335Touring]

Mini update on mine, drove my self over to Tobys house where he very kindly helped me tweak the fueling which is now possible because the WB02 out put is working fine now.

Started off by checking the WOT AFR's which are a bit rich TBH, it might cost me a bit of power but it's safe to drive and take down the strip until i can get it mapped properly.

We then worked on the light throttle/low rev fluff which was down to a very week mixture, this going to be down to the new TB letting more air into the engine compaired to the old one.

As we worked up to the top end of the fluff(1.7k rpm ish) we noticed that it was too lean above this point to even though it wasn't fluffing. We(Toby on the PC with me driving) adjusted the first three load sites upto 3.5k rpm.

This sort of area is cruising/motor way type driving, 3k rpm in 5th is 80mph.

Results so far is the fluff is gone and the engine feels more torquey.

Only minus is it's a little prone to stalling if you use very low throttle levels/low revs but this will be sorted when Dave gets his hands on it.

Not sure it's going to be any quicker at the pod than last year as it's got a slightly longer diff now and the WOT AFR's though safe may cost me a little bit of power ?

I'm just chuffed to get it driving so well as Toby and i arn't exactly very experianced at this mapping lark

Oh, and theres plenty of toys to play with in the new ECU soft ware, WOT gear shifts might be interesting if i could get the tyres to stick as i slam it into second ?

[appletree]

As far as i know you cant run VANOS adjustment on Emerald at the moment although when i had mine mapped in june they said they were developing one at that time.

[Turbo-Brown]

Can you not set up the AFR target thing if you've got a WBO2 working Andy?

[jkarran]

Does anyone have the factory data on the VANOS control signals, I'm sure I've seen detailed tech data for a variable cam timing system somewhere, it may have been Nissan though? I'm sure you could use something like a boost control PWM output with a fairly simple (bespoke) control circuit for VANOS. It seems like a big gap in the 'budget' stand-alone ECU market.

jk

[jaistanley]

I was discussing this on E3024V recently.. Motec can do VANOS but they require an oscilloscope trace of the VANOS control output hinting that it's a PWM signal. I have a motec document on running the quad vanos v8 engines round here somewhere that has info on the VANOS control strategy. I'll dig it off my backup hardrive if anyone wants a copy.

Think I'll fire an email to Dave Walker and ask him. A friend of mine is planning on blowing loads of cash on a motec so he can go alpha N in the short term and fit an S54 in the long term. An emerald system that could do the same would save him a fortune (well about £2800 I s'pose).

Jai

[Turbo-Brown]

I'd be very interested to see that document Jai

[jaistanley]

OK dude.. Send me your email address and I'll mail it to you when I get to my mates office again (again the lack of broadband here at mums means it'd be a pin in the arse before then).

Looking at that Emerald VVT control screen shot: Is that just another map to offset your ignition timing/fuelling at different load sites to compensate for the change in valve timing? Obviously when the valve timing changes the engine breathes differently so would need some sort of compensation. Dunno. My knowledge of ECU mapping is a bit limited (another reason I should megasquirt my M20 one day, to teach myself more about the details).

Jai

[Turbo-Brown]

Coolio, just about to send a PM

Somewhere in the instructions for the K3, it mentions the numbers corresponding to the timing angle of the cam.

Really don't know what the difference between the VVT and VANOS is in terms of control strategy!