M50 Developments - considering an M50? Read this.

[Andy335Touring]

Nice one mate,you've been very busy !

[randomdave325]

mmmmm throttle bodies.

[6potWil6pot]

Ur engine looks a bit close to the rad, but it might be from that angle, mine had a viscous infront of it once upon a time ago!

Like the Citroen ZX leccy fan Gotta see how it works in traffic/low speeds tho!

[Toby_Unna]

some nice work on that exhaust manifold mate

and well done indeed for all that prop research! m3 props aren't common or cheap (and nor is shortening!), so if you've produced something of the same length as an m3 prop that rocks!

nothing wrong with citroen fans, i have a BX one in my 335i!!!

[6potWil6pot]

Oh God the Citroen BX! Save me!

(Ive owned both a BX and a ZX )

[randomdave325]

cheers lads lets see if it all works. engine/rad should be in the same place as yours will. same engine mounts. viscous fan would be well tight. i'm wiring the fan on a switch so as and when needed. as i said see how it goes init.
quite pleased with prop. was after a lot of headscratching. i don't really want to buy a m3 diff, but want a slipper so hopefully will be as inventive with that.
theres a few ideas. but am gonna use it as a low geared racer for the mo. i think it would be amusing till the novelty constantly feeding it wears off.
for the record. i hate citroen bx's

[Adam318i]

Looks like i'll be taking a trip up to exeter when its done , i havn't even been in a 320i. lol.

Its looking good mate, hope it all comes together.

Adam

[Jhonno]

isnt there issue now with different outputs from the cylinders with the different sized manifolds?

[randomdave325]

isnt there issue now with different outputs from the cylinders with the different sized manifolds?
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don't think i haven't thunk about that. i'll get it on the road and keep an eye on the plugs for any temp difference. but i shouldn't have affected the flow too much. and for the minute if it fits and is quiet. it'll do. it's not too much hassle to modificate at a later date.

[6potWil6pot]

Hey atleast your manifold is a 3 and 3 split, interesting to see what noise it makes tho compared to my 4 and 2

[randomdave325]

Hey atleast your manifold is a 3 and 3 split, interesting to see what noise it makes tho compared to my 4 and 2
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Maybe id keep it if it looked like this...

sounds like a good day out (literally).

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paint it black then,

[6potWil6pot]

Ive got a few pics up of the engine bay in the gallery section, take a look to compare bays

A "proper" respray costs a small fortune And the paintwork on mine is v good, i just dont like Red!

[Andy325i]

note. do not buy an e34 rad for Ԛ£40 quid as it won't fit
What E34 rad was it mate?

I sold my E34 525i (24v) rad to a guy with an E36 320i and it was the same rad.

[randomdave325]

I sold my E34 525i (24v) rad to a guy with an E36 320i and it was the same rad

it came out of a 95 525 touring. way 2 big. would probably fit an e36 no joy in mine tho
in answer to your previous questions. use the 525 throttle cable. it clips straight in. and if you're lump came from a 5 there is no need to change the sump. just the alloy engine mounts. you'll need a 8mm tap to clean the threads in the block and will have to modify the dipstick mounting bracket. but will all make sense when you see it and drop straight in.

[Andy325i]

it came out of a 95 525 touring. way 2 big. would probably fit an e36 no joy in mine tho
in answer to your previous questions. use the 525 throttle cable. it clips straight in. and if you're lump came from a 5 there is no need to change the sump. just the alloy engine mounts. you'll need a 8mm tap to clean the threads in the block and will have to modify the dipstick mounting bracket. but will all make sense when you see it and drop straight in.

I'm using a 328i lump so swapping the sump etc from the 525i lump

What engine alloy engine mounts do I need to use? Looked and both the 24v engines today and they both look the same as in the l/h mount hangs down well below the bottom of the block and the r/h one is well above the block.

Hows yours doing mate?

Just got to find out about wiring the vanos unit now

[randomdave325]

more developments today.

finished the manifold.

looks like this

i joined to the hartge/ janspeed development that was on there already. which i'm happy about as i get to keep the balance pipe. it worked out quite well as e36 flanges are very similar. just bolted the system on (ish) at made pipes up from it to the manifold from the e34 frontpipes. turned out quite nice i think. i have to take the steering shaft out to take it off. but keep it clean and greased is not that hard. besides i shouldn't have to take the manifold off too often (hopefully)

this is where it comes out and sounds rather tasty. i'll have to take my hartge badge off now which i'm a bit gutted about.
it's been on there 17yrs and now it has to go,
oh well we had some good times

on a safety note. do NOT pick up the manifold after you have just welded it. i knew this and did it anyway.

these are the 2 rads. e36 325, e34 525. definately different!
thats all the hard bits over now. just a few finishing off bits to do.
back to work 2morrow till thursday so no time to go play with it again.
just use the e36 mounts mate. you'll be fine.
vanos. wiring will be to the ecu (isn't it?) the only plug you have to wire is the big multiplug under the engine bay.(r101 is it?). i've still got a few wire to suss but it starts, runs and everything works so can't be much. i'll post the colours when i look at it. all makes it easier init.

[6potWil6pot]

Which rad is which in that last pic? I had to replace my own and it resembled the one on the right hand side. I bought an E36 generic one.


Ouch with the hand

[randomdave325]

e36 on the left. e34 the larger one.

[6potWil6pot]

That is the rad that i replaced, i bought one exactly like it and im pretty sure its an e36 one! Literally took it to GSF and asked for another one like it

[randomdave325]

that looks a bit messy m8. how did that happen?? defo looks like an e36 one. i don'y know how u had a viscous on yours. no way one will fit in mine. couldn't find the pic of your engine bay? is it in members cars?

[randomdave325]

i just re-read your post. the gallery yeah. doh!

[6potWil6pot]

http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... pic&t=4778

Thats mine in the Gallery section on the zone, the viscous fan sheared it during an overenthusiastic drift Funny thing tho it didnt start leaking until about a month after the incident and when it did the rad emptied itself in a very short space of time
I dunno how they got the viscous in but its removed now, the electrics wernt getting a work out, not that they come on often anyway

[randomdave325]

mate. that does look sweet (other than the shout of paint the kidneys that came across the room.) top motor..
mine looks more functional than clean (as anyone who has seen it will agree) it's had a lot of abuse over the years. it still loves it tho.
i still couldn't find your powersteering reservoir? is it under the maf hose sort of area?

[6potWil6pot]

for the comments Feels kinda silly that im prolly getting rid of it If yours turns out anything like mine it'll feel awhole lot different from other E30s, the clutch is as light as in a small car, ive driven M20 cars and was like "jez what a clutch", the brakes are great and the short shifter is a delight too!

Its that little brownish bottle just below the MAF yeah

[Andy325i]

Cheers mate, sorry to hear about your hand! Been there done that and got the t-shirt. Not fun. Good progress though! Will update my post when I get 2 secs

Just seen ur post about the power steering bottle, mine is in the same place as wil's, got lots of pics so will post later today (server is down at the mo, so no pics

[Brianmoooore]

To add to the E36 / E34 radiator debate - I looked at the rads from my '91 E36 320 and '93 E34 525 donors today. (Stuck with the E30 rad on my conversion). Both rads are identical. Looks like the 525 can be fitted with either the shorter rad ( same height as E36 and E30 rads ), or a taller one.

[Andy325i]

Hi mate did you solve this problem with the gear linkage?

How has everyone else got over this?

Kind regards


Andy

[iKst]

Hi guys,

im building an E30 with M50 conversion. I have a few questions and i want to share my expirience from what ive done so far.

The car is E30 320 prefacelift model (1987) with open diff. I also bought an E36 325 as a donor car. I used E36 engine, changed oil pan and oil pump to E34 items and fitted it with E36 gearbox. I also used E36 prop shaft, it fits ok. There are 2 small problems. First one is that mount in the middle of prop shaft. You have to drill additional holes in that mount to make it fit, 5 minutes work so its not really a problem. Other problem is gear stick position. Because the prop shaft is thicker than E30 one there is some contact between it and gear leaver. I just used a few washers on the mount to lower the prop shaft. It now has some clearence but there is no place for a short shifter now.

I screwed E36 radiator and the one from E30 was also bent. I used to have nissan 200sx and i had a spare radiator at home. I tried to put it in E30 engine bay and it fits really nice. Also, its thinner than BMW rad but its much bigger, so it will still cool down the engine and there is more place for fan now.

I also have a couple of questions. First one is about electrics. How did you connect everything together ? Did you use E30 fuse box or E36 one ? Does anyone have a how-to on wiring everything together

Other question is about engine height. My car is lowered for 60mm on the front end, and oil pan has about 5cm ground clearance. Im now using some unknown engine mounts (they are 40mm high) but i got some custom made rubber mounts. They are 70mm high and very hard. How high are engine mouns you guys use ? Even if i raise the engine for 3cm oil pan will still be pretty low.

Here are the pics of my project. It still needs a paintjob and some bodywork so please dont comment that Just click on E30 album.

http://ikst.moj-album.com

[randomdave325]

Hi mate did you solve this problem with the gear linkage

ello. i used e36 318 linkage. with the usual rod beating you have to do with the z3 lever it fits ok. it's right back on the rear linkage mount but fits way better than the 325 one

First one is about electrics. How did you connect everything together ? Did you use E30 fuse box or E36 one ? Does anyone have a how-to on wiring everything together

you don't have to touch the fuse box. just the multiplug under the bonnet. i'm playin with mine again tommorrow so will post all the wiring developments then.

Other question is about engine height. My car is lowered for 60mm on the front end, and oil pan has about 5cm ground clearance. Im now using some unknown engine mounts (they are 40mm high) but i got some custom made rubber mounts. They are 70mm high and very hard. How high are engine mouns you guys use ? Even if i raise the engine for 3cm oil pan will still be pretty low

my sumps pretty low. i'll get back to ya on that. i'm using e34 525 mounts. but if you use the mounts ian posted earlier in this you should have no probs. i'm makin a sump guard anyway. (found some titanium plate) as kept bottoming the standard m20 out. (too fast, bumpy lanes) never cracked one but better to be safe i reckon
p.s loving your wheels. what are they then?

[iKst]

Tnx m8, that will help alot since im no good at electrics and stuff

In next few days i will replace stock mounts with my cusom ones and ill post some pics. Oil pan will probably still be pretty low but those few cm will allow me to get that sump guard mounted under oil pan. I will just put an alu. plate there.

As for the wheels. Tnx They are AAG (they made wheels for borbet), i dont know the model. Size is 16x8.

[randomdave325]

there been some annoying developments in my conversion. a lot of you will laugh but i'm ready 4 it.
got the shed fully up and rocking so it moves under its own power at last. when testdriving it i was a little shocked by the performance as it was extremely slow(in comparrison to what came out of it). when i investigated the lack of performance i found they had supplyed me a 2.0 lump. i was gutted to say the least .
i've since found an e36 2.5(definatly) lump to replace it , the drawbacks are i no longer have vanos(just gonna put big lairy cams in it). and have to swap the oil pump and sump. this is all going to on saturday now. the only reason i can come up with is the e34 had had an engine change at some point. it was definatly a 525 and had the 2.5 inlet manifold. i should of checked the engine number but it's a bit late now init. anyway. heres the wiring colours as promised.

E30 - E34(e36 probably the same)
brown/black - brown/green = oil pressure
green/black - green/black = load shredder relay (whatever that is?)
brown/purple - brown/purple = temp gauge(remember to use the e30 sender)
black/yellow - black/yellow = starter
blue - blue = alternator
purple/red - green/purple = fuel pump
blue/white - green/white = si
green/yellow - green = ign +ve
black - black = rpm.

these are all the wire i've connected so far. everything works other than the consumption gauge and the oil level check control light(no sensor) the fuel pump is a little noisyer than usual but i don't know if thats connected to the wiring as it's always been a little noisy.
i have a few wires left over and would be grateful if someone could look up what they are as i lost my bentley manual when i moved house.
e30.
yellow/black (abs?)
purple/green
green (ignition +ve unsecured?)
brown
blue/black
yellow/white

e34(m50)
black/purple (obc?)
black/white (consumption?)
green/white
yellow/white
white/black
purple/white
blue/black
purple/grey
black/grey

any help would be spot on on this.
good points are the exhaust manifold is spot on and the prop seems ok. i took it up 120 (eventually) and have done about 30 miles and had no signs of vibration. so just use the e36 prop andy with the e30 centre bearing. seems to work fine and is easier than trying to get an m3 prop.
the golf servo seems ok. i had no problems with the brakes whatsoever. still gonna fit the porsche servo but handy to know if you're running on a budget or can't find a porsche servo
it sounds awesome! just a shame it's so slow .
but i'm on it and should be sorted by next week.
i'll keep you posted

[Brianmoooore]

I'll post my full E34 - E30 connections, which should answer your questions, reardiffraver. Bit embarrasing about the 2 litre lump!
E34 M50 Tu E30

1/ blue/white (oil level, dynamic) 2/ green/yellow
2/ blue/yellow(oil level static) 10/ blue
3/ red/white (ABS supply) 20/ red/yellow
4/ black/blue (aircon)
5/ black/grey (aircon)
6/ purple/grey (aircon)
7/ black/purple (drive away sigle for E34 OBC)
8/ grey (engine fault) 12/ grey
9/ NC
10/ NC
11/ brown/yellow (water temp)
12/ brown/purple (water temp) 4/ brown/purple
13/ green/purple (fuel pump) 13/ green/purple
14/ black/white (speed to inst. cluster) 14/ black/white
15/ black/green (unloader relay) 15/ black/green
16/ white/yellow (Rx data)
17/ white/purple (Tx data)
18/ black/yellow (starter) 18/ black/yellow
19/ white/green (SI. reset) 11/ white/green
20/ black (engine speed to cluster) 9/ black
21/ Green (ignition) 7/ green
22/ green/white 6/ green/white
23/ brown/grey (oil pressure) 5/ brown/green
24/ white/black ( fuel rate to cluster) 8/ white black
25/ blue (ignition light) 1/ blue.

Hope this lot all helps.

[Brianmoooore]

Don't quite know what's happened there. I had them all sorted into two columns, but they've moved up together in the post.
Anyway, first part of each line is E34 pin,colour and function. Then E30 pin and colour.

[randomdave325]

Bit embarrasing about the 2 litre lump!

tell me about it! it's pants
we've got some completely different colours goin on there brian. do you think that could be age difference?.
for that tho. i'll print it off and check it out again. bit easier to understand when it's in front of you isn't it

[Andy325i]

i found they had supplyed me a 2.0 lump. so just use the e36 prop andy with the e30 centre

I'm gutted for you mate I really am, I would have gone nuts!

I have had some interesting developments, so will write them up when I get 2 secs. Do you have a vanos M50 loom dude? I have a non vanos loom if you want to swap? what ecu no were you running on the vanos M50?

Kind regards

Andy