How to kill yourself and friends driving e30

General E30 related discussions -
Please put technical questions in E30 Tech Help forum below

Moderator: martauto

ShepsEvo3
Master of go faster
Posts: 1881
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Bristol/Wiltshire

Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:37 pm

murran wrote:the problem is "how good a driver you think you are"!!!!!!!! once id been driving a few years i became aware of something i can only describe as a sixth sence. its spooky sometimes, examples like; knowing when someones going to pull out on you. to; this one time bout a year ago, i was racing my mate si in his mk5 escort xr3i 130 round some back street in sheff on the way home from work (i was in my trusty 87 golf gti). came up to this 90 degree blind corner that we both slid round at a stupid speed the day before. but on that day somethig said to me "back off john" and as si went round the corner there was a fork lift loading a lorry in the middle of the road. as he rounded the bend he locked all the brakes up and span round, as i trundled round the corner laughing at him as he was facing the wrong way with a fork lift driver swearing at him. if id tore round the corner as the day before id have been straight into the side of him. that sent a shiver down my back when i thought bout it later on..... 8O is it just experiance im describing? :?
I can totally relate to that, but also I have a sixth sense sometimes that it would be ok to overtake, but gut feeling tells me not to as a bend is comming up. Back off just in case. 99 times out of 100 my sixth sense was right and nothing was coming. But it only takes that 1 out of 100 and its way too late. Also young people are much less fearfull then us older mortals :roll:
E30 M3 Unichip Alpha N style conversions, this is the ultimate for extracting the best out of your S14 M power car.
Also, Live mapping of your Standard Motronic ECU for optimising all your modifications.
www.sabre-tuning.co.uk
16azev_needed_for_my_e30
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:00 pm

Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:57 pm

That shoul b shown at schools to scare the little saxo driving pr1cks
1an
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 2384
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: benfleet, essex

Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:03 am

tailoutcharlie wrote:
1an wrote:we should do it like the Americans, only be allowed to drive during the day and only carry 1 passenger.
so your a father two, which kid do you take to the zoo and which do you leave at home???

or its 12.30am your girlfriend/boyfriend/mum/brother etc needs to go to A+E for whatever reason, you cant take them cos your not allowed out at night.

and forget ever going to the cinema again!!!


more trianing for new drivers is the only way to actually make a dent in those satistics, if only the government would pump some money into that instead of stretching the allready overworked police even more :D


IMO or course
at 17 no im not a father, and the fact i only have a drivers seat and a passenger seat mean i can only carry 1 passenger.

and at the end of the day if it was brought it that you couldnt drive bettween certain times im all for it for a couple of years.
Image

Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
Jon_Bmw
Dangerous when thinking
Dangerous when thinking
Posts: 7606
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Salisbury

Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:45 am

16azev_needed_for_my_e30 wrote:That shoul b shown at schools to scare the little saxo driving pr1cks
But its a guy in an e30 :?

Show it to them all to be honest. I have seen plenty of twats driving all marks of cars. Me included :D
User avatar
Brianmoooore
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 49358
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:00 pm

Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:47 am

tailoutcharlie wrote:and forget ever going to the cinema again!!
Three local kids to me will never be going to the cinema again!
A local craze for newly qualified kids around here was to set off in two local towns (one car from each town) about six miles apart, and separated by a twisty road which follows a river, and to race each other to the other town, passing each other about half way.
Unfortunately, on this particular night, about ten weeks ago, they didn't pass - they hit each other head on.
Two (18 year olds) in one car were killed outright. The seventeen year old driver of the other car was trapped in his car, in which the petrol tank was crushed. The car exploded in flames burning him to death, while his 16 year old passenger (my neighbour) desperately tried to rescue him.
My neighbour received something like 60-70% burns, and has been in a specialist burns unit ever since.

I have a seventeen year old daughter who has been learning to drive for about five weeks now. Although her actual driving skills are quite developed, and she would probably pass a test now, it absolutely astounds and worrys me how little she anticipates potential dangers.
There definitely needs to be severe restrictions on newly qualified drivers.
Theo
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 10735
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: Kent

Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:52 am

but limiting you to a certain engine size in my opinion is stupid, why should i have to drive around in a 1.1 fiesta? yes im 17 and own a 316 e30 but i have been caught short a couple of time due to driver error, but that is purely because i was niave to the fact that a 1.6 e30 would go sideways
LOL - you answered your own question there dude.
fuzzy
He who sleeps with "Gingers"
Posts: 14351
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: melbourne Australia

Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:12 am

i dont understand the people saying that speed doesnt kill. of course it does.if you lose control you lose control.the deciding factor on whether you go home that night or not will be how fast you were going when you lost it and how hard any impact will be due to speed.you probably wont die at 30mph you probably will die at 70+
Cloggy Saint
Old Skooler
Old Skooler
Posts: 8024
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: zummerzet

Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:17 am

IMO it's fucking lunacy putting a 17 year old behind the wheel of a potential killing machine, full stop. Raise the age age a few years and I guarantee there would be less deaths on the road.
Image

E30 zone - promoting adult illiteracy since 2004
fuzzy
He who sleeps with "Gingers"
Posts: 14351
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: melbourne Australia

Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:30 am

datourer wrote:IMO it's ******* lunacy putting a 17 year old behind the wheel of a potential killing machine, full stop. Raise the age age a few years and I guarantee there would be less deaths on the road.
what about a manditory manslaughter charge for causing death by dangerous or reckless driving. it does seem that youngsters jump behind the wheel of cars and believe they are the next lewis hamilton.the guy at my work,whos now in his twentys,thinks he is a great driver. at 22 he has a dr10 and 4 write offs to his name.he screatches around in his badly maintained car with tyres so bald the metal threads are showing weaving in and out of traffic at whatever speed he can get upto any any given stretch of road regardless of the limit.i got a lift once and would rather get the bus.another statistic waiting to happen :cry:
User avatar
murran
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1683
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: sheffield, good old sheffield!

Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:07 pm

i dont understand the people saying that speed doesnt kill. of course it does.if you lose control you lose control.the deciding factor on whether you go home that night or not will be how fast you were going when you lost it and how hard any impact will be due to speed.you probably wont die at 30mph you probably will die at 70+

so what your saying is a new nationwide speed limit of 5mph???????? :? :?
Image
e21 killing tyres with e30 325 powerzzz
drifting on the cheap......... www.trampdrift.com
e21zone........ www.bmwe21.net
fuzzy
He who sleeps with "Gingers"
Posts: 14351
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: melbourne Australia

Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:10 pm

murran wrote:i dont understand the people saying that speed doesnt kill. of course it does.if you lose control you lose control.the deciding factor on whether you go home that night or not will be how fast you were going when you lost it and how hard any impact will be due to speed.you probably wont die at 30mph you probably will die at 70+

so what your saying is a new nationwide speed limit of 5mph???????? :? :?
no what im saying that speed is in fact a major ingredient in the road death figures.some people are saying speed doesnt kill what ive said is that your more likely to die at high speeds .its that obvious really.
User avatar
murran
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1683
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: sheffield, good old sheffield!

Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:11 pm

these people that drive like suicide bombers all the time, like the guy at ur work, need identifing by the police and castrating. exactly how this could be done i dont know?? :x
Image
e21 killing tyres with e30 325 powerzzz
drifting on the cheap......... www.trampdrift.com
e21zone........ www.bmwe21.net
fuzzy
He who sleeps with "Gingers"
Posts: 14351
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: melbourne Australia

Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:21 pm

murran wrote:these people that drive like suicide bombers all the time, like the guy at ur work, need identifing by the police and castrating. exactly how this could be done i dont know?? :x
ive had to tell him to slow down when he was doing 70 + through a built up area with parked cars on both sides.the guys laughed at me for being scared until i point out that hopefully one of their kids wont be killed by such reckless driving when they are playing out on the street. as for calling the police, its not something that sits easy on my conscience. i know it should be done but when you came from where ive came from the police are the enemy.its not something i will do .i prefer more of a hands on sort of approach bypassing the police completely.
User avatar
rikster
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 309
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: basingstoke

Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:03 pm

fuck me thats grim
8O
1an
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 2384
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: benfleet, essex

Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:01 pm

Theo325 wrote:
but limiting you to a certain engine size in my opinion is stupid, why should i have to drive around in a 1.1 fiesta? yes im 17 and own a 316 e30 but i have been caught short a couple of time due to driver error, but that is purely because i was niave to the fact that a 1.6 e30 would go sideways
LOL - you answered your own question there dude.
theo, atleast now i show up mopst respect for my car and i have learned, unlike a couple of people i know, eho are my age who have crashed due to drving outside their limits and their cars limits, yet they still continue to drive like it,

people have said the age should be upp'd from 17 to a higher age why? you will still have the same problems as there are when a 17 year old pass's his test compared to if the same peson passed when he was 19.
Image

Audi S3 and Racing Puma track car.
fuzzy
He who sleeps with "Gingers"
Posts: 14351
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: melbourne Australia

Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:14 pm

probably because the assumption is that as you mature with age you might have started to realise that you are not indestructable and arent michael schumackerl.
User avatar
Ben2k3
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:00 pm

Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:24 pm

Unfortunately it happens to be life.

I have been driving 2 years and have never had an accident touch wood.

I also have never owned under a 1.6 and my last car was a 200hp fiesta turbo at 18.

I'm now looking at getting an E30 M3 at 20 years old.

So what does that make me?
fuzzy
He who sleeps with "Gingers"
Posts: 14351
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: melbourne Australia

Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:42 pm

Ben2k3 wrote:Unfortunately it happens to be life.

I have been driving 2 years and have never had an accident touch wood.

I also have never owned under a 1.6 and my last car was a 200hp fiesta turbo at 18.

I'm now looking at getting an E30 M3 at 20 years old.

So what does that make me?
financially well off? winkeye
User avatar
Ben2k3
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:00 pm

Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:48 pm

Unfortunately not lol.

They're not too badder price to be honest.. few months saving will pay it off.

Insurance is still a killer though :cry:
fastdiablo
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Northants

Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:57 pm

Always an interesting topic, seems to crop up on many forums. but whats the answer ? ? ? . . .

my personal experience started at 16 with my first pushbike and the lads i knocked around with. We used to race everywhere with the last arriving to get the round in or whatever . . .

We progressed to learner bikes then to more powerful bikes, still racing everywhere with the last arriving to get the round in or whatever . . .

then onto cars blah, blah blah . . . my first car was a talbot samba, dont laugh, I got 103 out of it LOL . . . and then onto a fiesta 1.4s. I was in this once when we had 6 cars in a line including 2 x P6 V8 rovers, trying to go through a width restriction at over 100mph, we never managed it but we didnt crash either.

stupid ? . . . irresponsible ? . . . probably, but we were in a trading estate late at night and IF we crashed we wouldnt involve anyone else. Everyone involved knew the risks and CHOSE to continue

On to my first rear drive experience which ended in a destroyed opel ascona on a very wet roundabout . . . my first car write off . . .

my second rear drive car was a company saphire 2 ltr which nearly ended the same way after only 3 days and 250 miles :eek:

at this point it was time for some self learning . . . every time it rained i headed for a car park to learn how to drive RWD. It didnt take long and after a while could drive the car on the back end and the throttle, loads of fun :twisted: (would probably get a fine and points nowdays and never get to learn the way i did)

Now 20 years later on im doing track days on bikes, I am a qualified advanced driver and have 15 years driving 44 ton Artics.

So to my point, IMHO, speed doesnt kill ! I even heard an AA representative say this on the radio the other day, Halleluja, finally people are starting to realise ! ! ! . . . in his opinion most accidents are caused by innattention, stupidity and lack of ability.

So, what to do about it ? ? ? . . .

1) A driving license is not a god given right, its a qualification to prove you are able to control a vehicle on the public roads, with that in mind a more intense eye test should have to be taken including periferal vision before taking on an awareness and perception test. A provisional license should NOT be issued until these are passed.

2) This is not a license to race but drive on the road so i dont think skid training is needed. to illustrate this, in one of the Scandanavian countries (cant remember which) did introduce this, the accident rate then rose by about 30 % as people then all thought they were Ari Vartenen !

3) As with motorcycles, a stepped license should be inroduced based on BHP per tonne.

4) A seperate motorway license should be introduced to include how to join and exit a motorway safely, restricted abilities of HGVs including foreign trucks which seem to be plaguing our networks and causing chaos as they go.

5) Compulsory retests should be done after the first year then every 5 years to be reduced again to every year after the age of 65. The standards required should be set much higher than for the entry level tests. (remember those worlds worst driver shows on TV, if they are THAT bad to start, what are they going to be like after 5 years 8O 8O 8O )

6) Further advanced training should be compulsory. I hear you say " but think of the cost !". A couple of days training is far cheaper than a big accident, not to mention loss of no claims bonus !

as for the issue of younger drivers, points 1 & 3 should help to weed out the incapable and the overpowered, but not to reduce the age limit. we were all young once without experience and the only way to learn is out there on the roads.there is already the 6 point probation period to deal with and the exorbident cost of insurance.

to go with this anyone found to be diving without a license a second time should have hefty fines and their cars crushed with serial offenders recieving increasingly harsher penalties.

revenue generators, sorry speed enforcement cameras (sic) should be banned, they cause more problems than they solve and usually only catch unregistered vehicles or people new to an area (how many of you guys have only been flashed by cameras you dont know about and never the ones in your local area) and a police force put back on the road to enforce the laws we already have.

All this only scratches the surface, is only MY opinion and none of it will probably be implemented :roll: :roll: :roll:

We will continue with ever more of governments draconian, technologically enforced restrictions all because of an increasing number of poorly or untrained drivers who lack the abilty or as*holes who dont give a sheet :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
tailoutcharlie
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 2164
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: south wales

Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:34 pm

nicely said fella :D
Chris
Image
User avatar
murran
E30 Zone Squatter
E30 Zone Squatter
Posts: 1683
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: sheffield, good old sheffield!

Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:37 am

yep. with u on that. still think skid training is nessasary, if only to recognise when a understeer oversteer moment is going to occour, then the ways of controlling correcting it. you dont have to be a racing driver to skid on a patch of diesel on a roundabout. :o
Image
e21 killing tyres with e30 325 powerzzz
drifting on the cheap......... www.trampdrift.com
e21zone........ www.bmwe21.net
fastdiablo
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Northants

Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:49 am

Hmm, skid training . . . a mates wife is a driving instructor (she must have the patience of a saint ) , she keeps telling me most learners have enough trouble remembering to turn the wheel going into a roundabout, they seem to put total concentration on either looking at whats coming or trying to work the clutch, unfortunatley they're not able to do both at the same time :cry: and end up driving straight on :clin:


can you imagine trying to teach a raw beginner the basics of cadence braking or to turn a four wheel drift into a power slide out of an off camber decreasing radius turn ?

IF compulsory training was to be implemented then yes, it should be included in that, but not at the first beginner stage, its just too much for most to handle at that stage.
I reject your idea of reality and replace it with my own ;-) . . .

Image
Morat
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 8943
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: The Peoples Republic of Yorkshire

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:55 am

I learnt how to skid/recover and all sorts on an old airfield after I crashed the first time. It was good experience and kept me safe for another 15 or so years. Now I'm on RWD I need to do it all again, but the airfield has been built over with light industrial units, the bits that are still clear are fenced off, and if I try messing around like that on a trackday I'll get booted off when I spin.

Sometimes over-regulation is self defeating :(
E30 Touring 0.35 cD - more slippery than prison soap :)

Image
Praise the Lard... and pass the dripping!
fastdiablo
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Northants

Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:37 pm

you seem to have gone through the same learning curve as myself, push too hard and it bites back 8O . . .

you seem to be fixed on the point of skid training for begginers, so to turn it round on you, do you think that when you were learning to reverse round a corner or parallel park you would have been able to push a car into oversteer or understeer ? . . . this is my point that this type of training should be a least a year after passing the first test. .

best advice i can give you if you want to learn the art is to sign up on a rally school (but make sure they use RWD cars, some dont). I went on one and LOVED it, I learned more about how a car handles in that one day than weeks of playing, and all this in school conditions . The car is set up to do exactly what you want on loose surface and with rally tyres you get uncomprehendable amounts of grip even when sliding, making it all the more controlable.

BOOK UP AND ENJOY :cool: :cool: :cool:
I reject your idea of reality and replace it with my own ;-) . . .

Image
Stax
E30 Zone Newbie
E30 Zone Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:00 pm

Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:48 pm

There are plenty of body parts in those pictures..they just don't look as you'd imagine them to..
There is even one victim lying face down in the road seen clearly on picture 14..who was the guy sitting in the back on the right hand side wearing the yellow top..
Babal-fish translator mentions nothing about the tanker driver..

Being a Firefighter I have witnessed the aftermath of a few "Fun days out".. I hope people learn from shite like that.. One of the benefits of the Internet IMO.. brings things right into prospective at the click of a mouse..

RIP to all victims..
Last edited by Stax on Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Ex e30 Owner.
fastdiablo
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Northants

Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:31 pm

I offer my sincerest condolences.

I also feel for all the emergency services who have to witness these types of scenes.

my personal driving/riding style has changed on the roads since doing track days.

this link gives an idea of what I now do

http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31006
I reject your idea of reality and replace it with my own ;-) . . .

Image
mattyb240
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 685
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Birmingham, UK

Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:56 pm

As a young driver, with a recently purchased e30, i will be going from a rover 214 sei to 320i.

Frankly i am nervous as the first time i will be driving it (properly) in September when I am off to university, first up to Aberystwyth to take my gf there an help her unpack an then over to Cardiff my own uni.

Along that way are lots of "fun" roads. Having driven them roads in my rover many a time (in all weather fog,heay snow, rain) an even though it is FWD i have pushed a little to hard at times and nearly got caught out.

But now I like to consider my self a different driver then what I was when i passed last year, more sensible to an extent of course. But the thought of losing a much more powerful car (no digs at the 2L thank you) round these same "fun" roads is intimidating.

I have no experience of correcting over steer from a RWD car. So for this i am going to have to rely on my own ability as a young driver, an trust myself to take it easy, and basically not take the piss and treat the RWD with respect and hopefully it will return with a fun and rewarding drive.

I agree completely with skid pan days or even rally driving schools, but unfortunately they all cost money and time. It could be argued that time spent learning these added skills will eventually mean less time spent sidewards or in a hospital. Unfortunately alot of these things are trial and error, and i'm sure there are people on here who have had accidents after driving RWD cars for countless years it just takes one moment for it to go wrong.

I think the main issue with younger drivers is the sense of immortality and it won't happen to me theory. But as with time as I have learnt I am not invincible. If anything you will be making your own four wheeled metal coffin. It's all about the attitude people take when getting into the car.

When i do eventually take the trip in September I'm going to take the attitude that it will be a completely different learning experience, that i need to learn. It may take me longer to do the journeys that I am used to doing. But for the sake of getting there slower, and ALIVE I'm willing to be late.
fastdiablo
E30 Zone Regular
E30 Zone Regular
Posts: 340
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: Northants

Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:26 pm

:clap: :drive: :cool:
I reject your idea of reality and replace it with my own ;-) . . .

Image
tailoutcharlie
E30 Zone Addict
E30 Zone Addict
Posts: 2164
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:00 pm
Location: south wales

Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:53 pm

well said mattyb :D









now get a 2.5 in there winkeye





















sorry :o:
Chris
Image
Simon
E30 Zone Team Member
E30 Zone Team Member
Posts: 14939
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:00 pm
Location: South Wales
Contact:

Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:34 pm

Just for info, when this link was initially posted, it only contained a couple of pics, it's obviously been updated with more pics (bodies included) since being posted.
Image
Post Reply