Conversion for the convertible: M30 it is! DONE!

[Speedtouch]

Cool. I've had my M30B35 up to 7500rpm with no complaints!

[ric325i]

ziggy i just think the m30 would suit ure needs better due to the power band being so phenomenal!

and ric the e34 is a heavy old thing so you cant really properly judge the m30s peformance in that car.... in an e30 the m30 is by far the most cost effective way to get ure e30 to get to 60 in under 6secs......

In fact for a road engine for an e30 and especially a cab i dont think there is a better choice of engine. The noise with a decent exhaust also sounds sooo much nicer than a m20 as it has much more bass, which would be lovel to listen to with the roof down.

dont worry check back to my orignal posts early on and i said the m30 is perfect for the cab.

and did you say under 6 secs to 60mph!

oh i didnt know that.i almost beat andy in my m30 but i think he had a good use of 2nd gear not first fro traction.

i didnt use first as the old bill were in plain sight.

under 6! you must be stripped out?

m30 cab is cool! would you need a turbo on a cab?

[DRIFTBOY]

There are valid points regarding all engines being posted here, I suppose it really is horses for courses and all that!

I was mainly drawn to M30 because of it's big fat torque curve!
It can pull an E30 (with 3.73:1 diff ratio) up a steep hill at 35mph in 5th gear - about 1500rpm.
The grunt gets the back end out nice and easy too!

[DRIFTBOY]

Cool. I've had my M30B35 up to 7500rpm with no complaints!

I bet it wouldn't take that for very long!

Power has dropped off by then too, but good work all the same!

[Ziggy]

Good points, well made Jon. M52 is still very much an option...

Strengthening on a cab is a bit under the bonnet, lots along the cills, & a big chunk behind the rear seats too. I think it actually improves the weight distribution over a saloon, so putting a big lump up front wouldn't be the end of the world.

S50 is a dream conversion, as is the M30 turbo - but maybe the M30T has the advantage of being doable in smaller chunks, as well as those smaller chunks being less expensive if they go bang?
Can anyone enlighten me as to cheapskate options for M52 exhaust manifold options? I've no problem with forking out for something special eventually, but I don't want to do that now. Thoughts on necessary budget for getting a basic M52 install done?

Thanks for the offers of demos at the Pod - I'm even more gutted that I can't make it now - I'm in Italy
Anyone going to Gaydon?

[Toby_Unna]

hmmmmm m30 is far superior..... difference in power between m20 and m30 is like night and day

umm controversial.

I don't think that's controversial. 220bhp/230lb.ft m20s aren't exactly common, and there is a world of difference between a 325i with a cam and stuff, probably making 180-185bhp, and a standard 3.5. 35bhp and probably 60 lb/ft is a big gain in a car of e30 weight.

my 3.5 would happily do 6 secs dead to 60 on the g-tech meter, and that's with rubbish suspension and standard wheels/tyres.

also, standard m30s start pulling hard from 4k where the max torque is, they aren't actually all that torquey low down considering the capacity, and make maximum power at 5900 ish if i remember... so all this low-down-torque-monster-no-top-end stuff isn't really true. if the top end feels poor compared to the mid range, it's probably not running right

[Ziggy]

And the balance sways back in favour of the M30...

Anyone else want to argue the case of the M52? Preferably someone who's done it & can tell me how easy it was?!

Now what I really need is for someone who said they never would, to make another M30 turbo manifold... That'd convince me for sure, & I would even pay ya for the privilege!

[JungleGus]

i cant believe there are so many m30 fans..i have driven a couple, and really didnt like them that much

they have ok power, but are just so front heavy

go M52, even stock would be a great swap, much better than m20, and its alloy block.

m20 would be ok option too, maybe not as reliable as a N/A M52

[Andy335Touring]

M30, mod it modular style > M30 > M30 + M/S > M30 + M/S + turbo

Shame you're not closer or you could come for a drive in mine, mind mine isn't a standard M30 any more

[Ziggy]

M30, mod it modular style > M30 > M30 + M/S > M30 + M/S + turbo

Still gotta be the fave, but I need to work out what initial costs'll be on the m52 / m20T options.

Shame you're not closer or you could come for a drive in mine, mind mine isn't a standard M30 any more

I might not be at uni anymore but come Sept, I'll be visiting Loughborough a lot again...

[Andy335Touring]

I might not be at uni anymore but come Sept, I'll be visiting Loughborough a lot again...

No probs, just give me a shout if you come up

[jonmsm]

JON, long time no see. I hear Le Man was a lot of fun - mark showed me all his photos and the video of the mad man in the e28 flying across the mud!! Glad to hear your considering a 3.5 m30... guess what I have spare...

You guessed it, a 3.5ltr engine and gearbox and all the bits to go with!

Give me a shout if your interested? Jon

[gooner1]

i cant believe there are so many m30 fans..i have driven a couple, and really didnt like them that much

they have ok power, but are just so front heavy

go M52, even stock would be a great swap, much better than m20, and its alloy block.

m20 would be ok option too, maybe not as reliable as a N/A M52

Sureley the M30 engine is only 26KILOS heavier than the M20 one.?

[Andy335Touring]

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ic&t=72983

[Speedtouch]

Tbh, the M30B35 feels front-heavy even in my lardy E34, but it's a lovely torquey old boat anchor which even after 20 years use has seen the old barge up to 147 units of speed (on a private runway), so I guess it must be mucho fun in an E30

[Ziggy]

JON, long time no see. I hear Le Man was a lot of fun - mark showed me all his photos and the video of the mad man in the e28 flying across the mud!! Glad to hear your considering a 3.5 m30... guess what I have spare...

You guessed it, a 3.5ltr engine and gearbox and all the bits to go with!

Give me a shout if your interested? Jon

Yeah mate - Le Mans was awesome You'll have to consider it next year! Did you see my sedate bit of driving on the video (briefly)?

Interested in your bits of course... but something tells me they'll be E28? Apparently that makes life more difficult

[jonmsm]

hey dude - i did indeed see your drivng along with the comment by the person holding the camera.. somethign along the lines of "jesus he's shifting!"

The e28 bits shouldn't be that much of a problem, toby's your man for info on that, but I believe its just an e34 sump and oil pick up you need and that should be about it? It also helps me get the car stripped and shifted to keep estate happy! lol

It wil be a shame to see it go but at least if its heart goes to the cab it will be a good new home! plus its free so if it does pop under tooo much welly it doesnt matter a great deal

[Ziggy]

Free?! Would really be rude to say no to that... Thought there was something on the E28 block that hit the bulkhead, as well as the 'zorst mani not being so suitable? Toby'll be on here soon enough to put me straight I hope. Which car's it from? The old Unnamobile? Manual or auto? Got shot of the red one in the end didn't you? Too many e28s - I'm confused

That video's the evidence that the car still goes ok with the m20
How's you anyway? Whatya upto these days?

[Jon_Bmw]

Is the difference a coolant pipe?

[Toby_Unna]

there's lots of little reasons, coolant pipe on back of head being one... if you end up doing this you're far better using an e34 engine really. you need an e34 exhaust mani sump etc anyway, and by the time you've bought those bits (people don't like breaking up engines because an engine with no sump isn't worth much) you might as well have bought a decent e34 lump, with its bigger valves better motronic and oil pump chain tensioner for quieter running

unfortunately 'free' isn't necessarily a reason to use the e28 stuff. and then when you decide you need to swap to an e34 engine (as i did) you end up rewiring, remaking engine mounts to suit the newer block... a PITA basically

manual gearbox and e28 fly, though, yes please

[jonmsm]

Well Ziggy, there's your answer, straight from the fountain of knowledge that is Toby! haha. Its the one in my sig picture that the engine is from.. well still in, and the gearbox and flywheel are up for grabs if you still want those? The unna mobile lives on as it happens. Its having a bit of work slowly (including a nice stainless exhaust and some raaather large 750i 4pot brembos when i can afford some ventred and grooved disks to match) althought need for welding has haulted play for now.

Anyone any good with a welder and wanna teach me how?

Also, Toby, you dont need any bits from the M535i do you? Breaking mine for bits now (sad i know) cos I know you are always looking for bits and pieces for the 335?? Also!! I haven't seen this e30 335it yet!! You must pop up if your about this week as im moving to London shortly

Jon

[jonmsm]

That video's the evidence that the car still goes ok with the m20

evidence is sound the dogs bollocks as well!

[Jon_Bmw]

Was certainly the nicest sounded car in our group that nailed it past me(the camera crew)

[Ziggy]

Gearbox & flywheel sound essential then - cheers dude
Rad might be suitable too? Throttle cable, PAS pump, clutch (if it's any good)? Not sure if the prop'd be needed for getting a custom one done?

Anything else that's compatible between the two (starter motor, altenator, AFM, airbox etc?)? Would be good to just leave an e34 engine to find (& need as few bits with it as poss!), as long as I can get it complete with loom & ecu, & an auto one'd be fine...

When are you off to London mate? Got a job lined up?


The sound worries me. I love how it sounds now! Maybe I should start considering a 2.7 / 2.8 m20 again?!

[casper8r]

Unless I'm mistaken Spadge had an e34 engine for sale, complete with manual box etc.

[ric325i]

hmmmmm m30 is far superior..... difference in power between m20 and m30 is like night and day

umm controversial.

I don't think that's controversial. 220bhp/230lb.ft m20s aren't exactly common, and there is a world of difference between a 325i with a cam and stuff, probably making 180-185bhp, and a standard 3.5. 35bhp and probably 60 lb/ft is a big gain in a car of e30 weight.

my 3.5 would happily do 6 secs dead to 60 on the g-tech meter, and that's with rubbish suspension and standard wheels/tyres.

also, standard m30s start pulling hard from 4k where the max torque is, they aren't actually all that torquey low down considering the capacity, and make maximum power at 5900 ish if i remember... so all this low-down-torque-monster-no-top-end stuff isn't really true. if the top end feels poor compared to the mid range, it's probably not running right

dont get me wrong for a cab the m30 will be great.

i dont want to question figures (especially from automotive journalists) but i thought the standard m30 was 210bhp?

anyway its still a good increase, my point is though for the spec of his m20 the power dif will be...what....20 or 30 maybe bhp more. for all the work it and expectations of a big engine change how much difference would it create? delivery is very different from what ziggy may be used to?

i love the m30 i have to as i am putting one in my e30 on monday (i will start a thread).

this is just to give ziggy all the info plenty of opinions as the power delivery is so different from the m20. all the praise may boost his expectations to high? test drive needed i think.

and the cab isnt going to be a track monster so the crazy torque in a cab would be stunning.

i bet by a week on monday i will be jumping up and down and singing the praises of the beasty m30 as i slide round every corner, i will be running a 4:1 dif foir a bit


loooooong post sorry.

[Gunni]

Here is a quick M30 / M20 example.

drag diffrence
stock 325i - 15.3sec quarter mile best finishing just at the start of 4th at 85mph
old M30 335i with new cam and midly tuned standalone and a HOT air intake, 14.6 at 95mph at about 6k in 3rd, weighing about 70kg´s more then the 325i
because of "17´s and M30.

torque diffrence
M30 >>>>> M20 ,, this 335i I did has the power coming in at 2k and doesn´t stop until 5k where it settles to 7k,

hp diffrence
m30 is tired but still shines over a very solid 325i at rolling starts the 3.25 diff and M10 trans doesn´t even slow it down, would be a real kicker with a 3.73 diff

driving experience
325i has 3.73
335i has 3.25 but still can break traction easier then the 325i in the bends..

I´d do a M30 first, E32/E34 engine.
turbo later

[ric325i]

yeah m30 then turbo is mega power and the best way for any e30 to go but is the cab going to be a track car or somthing like that?

is it track times you after ziggy or just grunt and cruising power?

[Gunni]

If I had a cab, I´d take a M60 4.0,,
slightly more open exhaust and maybe a chip and leave it at that.

nice low smooth V8 rumble while cruising would be sweet..
besides 400nm will be nice in a cab.

Cab = M60
M3 = Turbo S50
Sedan/Coupe = Turbo M20 or M30
Touring = Turbo M30

For kicks Red Coupe I have = CA18DET

[Toby_Unna]

Ric

211bhp is the quoted figure with cat., although not all E34s had one. As the E28 version (with smaller exhaust valves) did 218bhp, I think it's fair to assume 220 with some of the original silencers removed for the later version.

I'd say just bag yourself a few rides Jon, there's plenty of conversions kicking around now for a spot of first hand experience

btw mine is much much quicker (if equally ropey) than it was when you went in it, despite still running 7psi

[ric325i]

Ric

211bhp is the quoted figure with cat., although not all E34s had one. As the E28 version (with smaller exhaust valves) did 218bhp, I think it's fair to assume 220 with some of the original silencers removed for the later version.

good man i was just quoting a e34 535i as the fiqures.
but as you say thats bang on.

and gunni

Cab = M60
M3 = Turbo S50
Sedan/Coupe = Turbo M20 or M30
Touring = Turbo M30

i can agree with that totally!

[Ziggy]

Cheers for all the input fellas - keep it coming!

Now M60 - that sounds awesome! V8s rock. Would have thought it could be a pretty damn complicated job though, to say the least?! Not necessarily a reason not to, just a consideration. Anyone got any links / info for me?

Just to clarify - the car gets driven rather than just cruised, but it is a 99.9999% road car - been on one mini track day, & may well do another but that isn't even a consideration really.

[Ziggy]

Hmmm... just had a read of bigdek's m60 thread... & it looks every bit as hard as I expected!

One to consider for sure, but I'm not really in a position to take something like that on right now
Don't want it to be something that takes months, & I just don't have the skill to sort out the nightmare that those exhausts must be.

So, who's coming to Gaydon & fancies letting me have a go (as a passenger if you'd rather!)

[Ziggy]

Thoughts on whether a cheap arc welder'll be suitable for the exhaust stuff? Just I've got one that I've never used & a couple of complete exhausts sat on the drive... Think I should have a play. Any tips?!

[Jon_Bmw]

The thing I did Jon was to tack it with an arc welder, then gave someone at work £20 and he made it look very pretty. I personally would tack it and take it to a fabrication place, it will take them about 20 mins instead of your(if you are anything like me) 5 hours of swearing and grinding!

Off topic: are you going to LA POD?