GAFF thieved $250

[smooth]

I purchased the following from GAFF well over two months ago.

http://e30zone.net/modules.php?name=For ... highlight=


Here is the PM:
From: GAFF
To: smooth
Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:14 am
Subject: Re: lip spoiler
hi then could you post a cheque under the name of XXX chesham, buckinghamshire XXX. thanks


This was the last I heard from him
From: GAFF
To: smooth
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Subject: Re: lip spoiler
hi im sori for the delay, but you check has cleard, there were some issues. but you items will be posted to you i will let you no when i have date from the courier. thanks


I need contact information for the authorities for that area or if some people would help me out over there,

EDIT: I've been in contact with the seller this AM and he assured me that he is dealing with the courier this week. He's provided a valid reason for the delay and once the situation resolves I will hold no hard feelings about the transaction.

[munky30]

Harsh, but dont discredit anyone without paypal so quickly.

I dont use paypal and I'm honest and dont rip people off.

Sorry... I feel for you cos it sounds like a lot of cash and I hope you get it sorted, just wanted to make the point that yes its a higher risk but just because someone doesnt have paypal, doesnt make them a scammer.

[boomer]

Chesham Police Station
Broad Street
Chesham.
HP5 3EA
Open - Mon —a Fri 10am to 2pm. Closed at weekends

Telephone: 0845 8 505 505

HTH

[georob]

Chesham Police Station
Closed at weekends

Handy being closed at wknds

[march109]

Chesham Police Station
Closed at weekends

Handy being closed at wknds

Must be a real safe place to live if no-one commits any crime on the weekends!

[smooth]

Thank you for the information.
Yes, I didn't assume someone was a scammer for lack of paypal, else I wouldn't have sent the funds.
My original thread, which I can't find for some reason, was whether there was an escrow service that board members used when others didn't have paypal. It was just a general concern for how one can recover funds in a situation like this I'm in right now...
It's the lack of communication after the funds were received and awaiting receipt of items for two months that makes me think he's scamming me.

[smooth]

The seller has answered his phone this AM.
He assures me I will be receiving a tracking number on Monday.
If this situation ends well, there will be no hard freelings from myself.

[fuzzy]

its a right pain when things like this drag on.i always think that if the person buying has been quick and courteous to pay promply then the seller should have the decency to respond likewise.sometimes though there are problems that arise that are down to the courier as i found recently when trying to send a diff and ended up paying out of my own pocket almost double the courier charges to get it there as quick as i could as i didnt want the buyer thinking i was fobbing him off with excuses.international stuff would be worse id guess but i hope it all works out well in your case

[smooth]

nahid akhtar
28 brockhurst road
chesham, buckinghamshire, hp5 3je

contact number is 07765528458

[DanThe]

3 months now................

[reddevil]

3 months now................

The sale started January 26 2007, which makes this even more of a P*ss Take.

Does this "Gaff" guy ever come on the forums?

Looks like his last post contained:

r givving my address and number out? that aint on mate, you no the situation yet your being a nob? any one is invited to my house, but you wont be walking out, and you can **** yourself becoz after that you aint getting shit. you fail to mention you spoke to me twi

Not only illiterate, but a thief too, think Smooth is going to miss out which is a shame, a big shame.

Red Devil

[reddevil]

Just done a search on his address, comes out with the following (many times)

Bucks Cars
28 Brockhurst Road
CHESHAM
Buckinghamshire
HP5 3JE
Tel: 01494794242

Don't know if this will help Smooth or not, personally I would hand it over to the Police, let them deal with it if you're not getting any joy.

Also, just done a search on Thompson (smaller phone directory), it's showing this business just down the road with the same land line number and the same trading name:

BUCKS CARS 16 CAPTAINS CLOSE CHESHAM HP5 2PP

Might be worth giving the Police that address too?.

Anyway, hope you get this sorted Smooth.

Red Devil

[470813]

C'mon moderators, this seems to be getting out of hand.

[m3ben05]

Smooth, I live about a mile away from this character, if you want il make some calls for you PM me if you want

[smooth]

Thank you all very much for the info.
Nothing has been resolved from the seller's end.

[DanThe]

Hand the info over to the authorities, there is more than likely going to be a load of other people been ripped off as well.

Scum bags

[smooth]

I can't seem to get one positive thing resolved from this board.
It's beginning to feel like becoming a member of this community was the worst and most stressful decision of my BMW life...

[old_skool]

And the community is sorry you feel like that.

What do you think we could do to resolve the situation?

[smooth]

It's a confluence of factors...

The buy occurred after a number of people stepped forward and made the claim that there's a lot of trust here and that people generally look out for one another. I would have appreciated those same people to try and find out what happened since I'm in a different country...it's difficult and expensive for me to make international calls.

I'm not expecting anything I haven't done for international buyers who asked me to contact a person or two in California.

But what's more frustrating is that before, during, and after this specific event, sellers contacted me with offers to ship the parts I needed. I'd agree to the terms, and then no more contact...no PM or reply or anything. The last person offered to ship a full bumper set to me, and I explained that I needed to track down this seller to find out if he was going to refund the money...and if not, I'd need a week more to gather the funds. I didn't think that was too objectionable, I had just been rippped off. I'm just a hobbyist trying to fix my car.

But after the week was up, I email this latest seller and no reply. I run a search on his name and lo and behold he publicly listed the items I agreed to buy and parted them out. Sellers can do what they wish, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some communication.


As a community? It depends on whether you want to be viewed and act like an insular community or a broad reaching one. I try in all I can to be respectful of the difficulties with international communication and trade. At the same time, making sure that *all* of your members feels welcome, not just the local ones, is beneficial if for no other reason than you may need something over here.

As a moderator, I received a couple PM's expressing concern over this situation. I replied that nothing had been resolved. I later requested that it's become evident that the seller has stolen my money...this is admitted in the For Sale thread by the seller. My last PM was that I felt the need to report this to the authorities. Would it be possible to obtain "GAFF"'s real world information...IPs are logged, I'm assuming. Or can that information be delivered to the police. I don't know privacy laws in the UK, but my request didn't even receive a response of: we can or can not do that.


So as a mod and a community member, my suggestion would be to put some bite behind the bark...if this community is to be purged from thieves and scammers, then I would suggest that when something like this occurs, and it's confirmed, then actually report it. Perhaps even posting the results of prosecutions.

My post was more of a vent rather than a suggestion that one could actually "fix" what happened here, but at the same time it's happening frequently enough that it's difficult for me to see how I'm the problem.

[Jon_Bmw]

Whilst i'm sad that you lost £100, you can't be serious about some of your points. Do you want a MOD to vet every person that wants to sell parts on e30zone(a mear 2000+ people)? The mods and the whole community make everyone feel welcome, admittedly some local people get on very well and will go out of there way to help others, but this is usually because they know each other personally, off the zone.

"It's difficult to make international calls" The phones do work across the sea you know, yes it might be slightly more expensive, but do you want your £100 back? Although i'm not sure who you are going to call.

Bascially the above may seem harsh, but it seems you are blaming the community and lack of MOD action, which quite frankly is ridiculous. That bloke was nothing more than a scammer, it could have happened on ebay, but it happened on here. The zone has nothing to do with him, he is possibly banned, you have his details, they can't do anymore.

There are no zone police here, and i hope it stays that way.

[smooth]

That's not what I was saying, and I'm sorry if it came across that way.
But certainly action after the fact of a crime is not the same as vetting people as they join the boards.

[old_skool]

The bottom of every page reads:

The name BMW is owned by BMW AG of Munich, Germany, and by BMW (GB) Ltd in the UK. This site claims no affiliation with either of the above companies. This site is provided as an expandable library for owners and future owners of BMW E30 cars. Due to the fact that this site is a public forum, E30Zone cannot be held responsible for information, goods bought, goods sales or other areas contained within the E30Zone. Whilst we will endeavour to ensure that all material is suitable for all age groups we strongly advise that only persons over the age of 18 participate. Please note that we will not tolerate material that is racist, sexist or viewed inappropriate by the administrators and moderators. Those that breach of the E30Zone regulations will be permanently banned, the administrators and moderators decisions are final! Any further questions should be directed to webmaster@e30zone.co.uk. This site is written by enthusiasts in their spare time. The site is not responsible for any damage that may be caused due to information given on this site. Do not attempt any work on your car, or anyone else's, unless you are sure you know what you are doing. If in doubt, consult a professional.
Copyright 2003 - 2006 E30 Zone

It's a confluence of factors...

The buy occurred after a number of people stepped forward and made the claim that there's a lot of trust here and that people generally look out for one another. I would have appreciated those same people to try and find out what happened since I'm in a different country...it's difficult and expensive for me to make international calls.

I'm not expecting anything I haven't done for international buyers who asked me to contact a person or two in California.

But what's more frustrating is that before, during, and after this specific event, sellers contacted me with offers to ship the parts I needed. I'd agree to the terms, and then no more contact...no PM or reply or anything. The last person offered to ship a full bumper set to me, and I explained that I needed to track down this seller to find out if he was going to refund the money...and if not, I'd need a week more to gather the funds. I didn't think that was too objectionable, I had just been rippped off. I'm just a hobbyist trying to fix my car.

But after the week was up, I email this latest seller and no reply. I run a search on his name and lo and behold he publicly listed the items I agreed to buy and parted them out. Sellers can do what they wish, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some communication.


As a community? It depends on whether you want to be viewed and act like an insular community or a broad reaching one. I try in all I can to be respectful of the difficulties with international communication and trade. At the same time, making sure that *all* of your members feels welcome, not just the local ones, is beneficial if for no other reason than you may need something over here.

As a moderator, I received a couple PM's expressing concern over this situation. I replied that nothing had been resolved. I later requested that it's become evident that the seller has stolen my money...this is admitted in the For Sale thread by the seller. My last PM was that I felt the need to report this to the authorities. Would it be possible to obtain "GAFF"'s real world information...IPs are logged, I'm assuming. Or can that information be delivered to the police. I don't know privacy laws in the UK, but my request didn't even receive a response of: we can or can not do that.


So as a mod and a community member, my suggestion would be to put some bite behind the bark...if this community is to be purged from thieves and scammers, then I would suggest that when something like this occurs, and it's confirmed, then actually report it. Perhaps even posting the results of prosecutions.

My post was more of a vent rather than a suggestion that one could actually "fix" what happened here, but at the same time it's happening frequently enough that it's difficult for me to see how I'm the problem.

Can you clarify some of this? Are you writing this in the first person as you make references to being a moderator here.

[smooth]

I don't want any of what I'm writing out to be taken the wrong way.
You asked what I would have liked the community to do...and I was just making some suggestions.
Some of those were general about the community and some were specific interactions I had with mods that I thought could have been handled better. I didn't solicit the assistance of a mod, one of them saw the fiasco in the for sale thread and stickied this thread and someone PM'ed me. When I was PM'ed to keep the mod staff updated with how this resolved, I responded that Gaff hadn't resolved it adequately. That was asked of me by the mods, not me of the mods. I also wrote that I would like to know if I could find out whether the IP address was from a private place or public (anonymous, like a library or university computer). Now that I look back, I didn't even ask for the specific IP. I didn't ask for personal information, just whether it was conceivable that it could be determined through proper channels. I didn't even receive a response stating that wasn't acceptable or it was or whatnot.

I'm not holding e30zone liable for anything, but that doesn't wipe away the nasty feeling I have in my mouth about my experience so far. Holding someone legally responsible is much different than requesting that when a response is solicited that the same respect be shown to me when I send a message back.

And the comments to the community were whether some people take their stance that this is a welcome place and all that, and I believe it to be generally so and the people to think that to be true. So I'd think they would like to know an honest assessment of how I think I've been dealt with a few occasions...that when you ask what could be done, I don't think you mean it in a rhetorical manner. So I answer, well, to be honest, it takes a lot to coordinate purchases in different currency if someone won't take paypal or whatever. So when someone offers up some parts, and this is mostly been solicited to me via PM--I don't bombard every single bumper sale thread and claim the pieces for myself and then not pay up--no, someone sends me a PM and offers what I'm looking for. When I go through the process of securing the funds and setting up an account to obtain them in your currency, that the simple respect of at least answering PMs for payment address or a simple, sorry mate, I sold the goods to someone local, would be in order.

And these things aren't legal demands from myself. But rather just common courtesy that you all give to one another each day. I don't haggle people around, I don't sit there and say I'll buy something and then mess around with the price. So then why would multiple people, not just Gaff, and not just one other seller, offer to sell something and then just ignore further communication from the interested party they themselves contacted?

Now I could see what sometimes I feel like I am the odd person out if I were to be a vulture looking for odd parts and then reselling them over here. Constantly harassing people to send me things so I could make a few dollars on this side. But I'm not, merely trying to find a simple part for my own vehicle. I'm just an enthusiast and I don't have a lot of money as a student. And $250 US dollars was about 120 and not only 100 when this deal was made and payment sent. That is a sizeable amount to most anyone so I would hope that me steaming for a few posts isn't taken too far to mean something other than what it is--someone who is rightly angry over being scammed. And that feeling of frustration is made that much worse by not being able to physically do the tracking down of the scammer.

I do apologize to any members who were put off by any of my comments. They weren't meant to apply to the community as a whole, just a handful of people who are ruining my otherwise good time here. And I've been here for a few years, so it's not like I just stepped in here and am saying things like a new visitor in one's house. I have a right to be respected, too, so long as I deal with others respectfully. So if you read this all I was asking is you be mindful of the way in which people deal with one another.

[d6dph]

I'm sorry you feel the mod team has not helped as much as you like. It is a tricky situation for us.

I personally have been scammed twice, Once buying a "mint" tech 2 spoiler that turned up looking like someone had used it for football practice, And once having someone paint my rocker cover and inlet manifold which were returned to me with the paint in a still liquid state and half of the manifold not painted. I really do understand how frustrating these things are.

I have put my experiences down to bad luck. I have lost roughly the same as you and it's very annoying.

These people who sign up to scam, or blatently lie to line their pockets have no morals. I wish we could appeal to their better side but that would require they had one to start with.

I'm afraid it seems to be one of those very sad situations where the only winner is the scammer.

[old_skool]

Smooth,

While I realise you have lost some money - I'm not sure what else we can do to make you feel better. We do not hold interviews and psychometrically profile each individual member. This is, after all, a public forum about cars.

We warn members that we are not responsible for any transactions that take place here, as I said before, it's at the bottom of every page. Whilst we are not responsible, we still don't like the fact that you've been scammed either.

To be honest I have had to read your response a few times and I still can't see what you are getting at. We have made this guys details a sticky in the for sale section, he will probably never be seen on here again. If you have any further suggestions we would be pleased to hear them.

Please reply using less than 200 words this time, I've got a headache now.

[johnna]

Just a point on the phone calls... a few transatlantic hpone calls can soon amount to £100... thus defeating the object of the initial complaint.

Smooth, can I recommend you do contact his local police station and report his details.

[MarkHooper]

smooth, i also agree with johnna. and perhaps despite the disclaimer this could be backed up by the e30 moderators?? maybe they could verify that the posts and information that smooth send to the police was actually written on here and isnt edited. also if ip's are logged supply these too. not a lot to ask and maybe it could be something that e30zone could start to offer as part of "member security" (term used loosely as we know what scammers are like). at least it shows (even more) effort on the zone's behalf. although youre nice people, definitely no complaints about your help could be raised then!

just a thought!!

Mark

[josh-hocking]

get the police involved!!

[wokke]

Just a point on the phone calls... a few transatlantic hpone calls can soon amount to £100... thus defeating the object of the initial complaint.

Smooth, can I recommend you do contact his local police station and report his details.

sorry that I can't believe this. At least from Germany it is much cheaper to call the US than for example Spain. I have a sister living in CA and whenever I call her it's a minimum of one hour but I merely see it on my phone bill (I think it's Euro 0,016 per minute). What about Internet telephony ???