LPG

[cro320]

Will this tank fit?

Will what tank fit? Can't imagine a spare wheel well tank for a 7 series will fit an E30, but most cylinder tanks will go in an E30 boot, although it will probably occupy at least half of it.

well I had cylinder tank with 80L capacity, and trunk space was still very usable.

[oze30]

That's what I got at the mo, but it's a touring, so i still have useable space. BUT I would like a normal torroid tank. The biggest possible without too much grief.

[Brianmoooore]

It still won't be multipoint - which is unnecessary for a M20 in any case!
It will be a lambda controlled single point venturi system, similar to what I've run on my wife's touring for several years.
To fit and use this system you will needs some 6mm plastic covered tube, a lambda sensor, a 18mm X 1.5mm nut to weld to your exhaust, and the software and lead, which appear to be extra.
You do not need the emulator, so you can ask for a refund on this.
If you can source an AEB Leonardo or Millennium controller etc., I can supply you with a free copy of the software and a circuit diagram for the laptop interface lead.

[oze30]

its an m30 btw!

I found out that what I have is most probably an open loop system. Whats the difference between the 2? open and closed?

[Brianmoooore]

Whats the difference between the 2? open and closed?

Difference is the bits in the ebay kit - The addition of a lambda sensor, an ECU to process signals from the lambda sensor and other existing sensors on the car, and a stepper motor controlled valve, similar to an idle control valve, that replaces the manually adjustable valve in the gas vapour line.
Fine tunes the mixture continuously, and, importantly, can be set to light a fault indicator light if the mixture goes lean for any length of time.

[Brianmoooore]

The biggest possible without too much grief.

Which is 630mm X 220mm. Holds 50l full capacity = 40l max. (officially) of gas. This will require strips of 10mm plywood glued to the bottom of the touring boot floor panel.

[oze30]

So closed loop is better?

[Brianmoooore]

Definitely! Open loop can go out of tune for all sorts of reasons, and apart from anything else, the first you'll know of a weak mixture is when a piston melts.

[oze30]

oops!

Ok.. I'll look into getting this then. Cheers

[gareth]

i've just got the rear end sorted oooer!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... %26fvi%3D1

[oze30]

Do you want ther rest of the stuff?

[Brianmoooore]

i've just got the rear end sorted

Don't forget that no part of the filler or its pipe to the multivalve can be inside the car unless it is enclosed in an airtight enclosure and vented to the outside.
You may have a problem getting that two part filler nozzle certified.

[gareth]

oze30, i'll have a good look at whet i get and once i suss out what i need, i'll give you a shout.

brian, i was thinking of positioning the filler under the bumper so it's kinda hidden by the black painted part and the rear of the filler doesn't intrude into the inside of the car. i may look silly filling it up though!

what's the score with certifying different types of filler then? in all fairness, the price i got it for seems pretty good for the new tank alone as i've found they're quite uncommon in the right sort of size for a E30 wheel well. so f i need to get a different filler, that's not the end of the world.

there are a few more toroidal tanks on ebay at the moment that will fit a E30 if anyone else is looking for one...

[Brianmoooore]

there are a few more toroidal tanks on ebay at the moment that will fit a E30 if anyone else is looking for one...

There's a 630 X 220 amongst them for £85 but it now, which is ideal for an E30.

[gareth]

i think that chap has 2 of them iirc.

mine is located 75 miles from me but only 10 miles from my brothers work so i'll send him on a courier mission in exchange for beer tokens!

there's at least one used tank that will do and is only a few quid at present.

[oze30]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/lpg-system-AFC-KM ... dZViewItem

Would this work for the multipoint? (They list 6cyl for 375

Where's that tank? I got a 65 litre jobbie and the floor is almost level with the bottom of the lip. It's also an external 4 hole I think its called. Its got a growth on one side for the hoses etc. Would ideally love to fit a normal toroid tank.

[Brianmoooore]

The Polish equipment in the above link is new to me. Never heard of it in any LPG forum, so can't comment, other than it's suitable for use with BMWs, and Poland is one of the world's market leaders in LPG equipment, along with Italy and the Netherlands.
External 4 hole is OK if it fits, and tends to have a slightly greater gas capacity than the more normal type for its physical size.
You'll have to cut a hole in the wheel well, of course (away from the exhaust side!), and the valves are more vulnerable in a major accident.

[oze30]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sequential-Auto-G ... dZViewItem
Or this??

[Brianmoooore]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sequential-Auto-G ... dZViewItem
Or this??

Interesting!! Those are seriously low prices by UK standards. Good old, rip-off Britain!
The £68 Stako tank looks like it could be the correct one for E30s, but I would check up on the height first. Actually, looking at the multivalves listed, it appears that the tank is 225mm high, which isn't far different from the overall width of a 205/55 X 15 tyre.
BiGas and BRC stuff are both well known and respected makes, although I don't have any personal experience of either.
Anyone feel like diving in and giving it a go?

[gareth]

right, this is what i've got so far...

the tank. this fits very well. comes with some sturdy brackets to fix it to the boot floor.


the multivalve. has a neat level gauge connected to what seems to be a 0-90ohm pot for a remote level gauge.
the other electrical thing must be a electrially switched gas valve?



the 2 part filler. this seems pretty naff and i'll have to screw a bayonet fitting into it each time i fill up so this will probably not be used.


i also have the tank centre vent tube, 6mm pipe, 8mm filler pipe.

now for the front end bits...
as i have 220bhp, i need a big vaporiser. this looks good:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... &rd=1&rd=1


lambda control:
this looks neat and easy to set up.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lambda-Control-wi ... dZViewItem

this looks more complicated and on a basic lump like the M30, will it be worthwhile? also, emulator not needed?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Advanced-Lambda-C ... dZViewItem

then a mixer... can't find any at present (on ebay anyway). and some hoses, clips etc etc etc.

what else have i missed?

[gareth]

i've seen a few more methods of lambda control:
http://www.autogasparts.co.uk/index.asp ... ductid=173 seems cheap!

a simple vacuum conrolled system.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LPG-Autogas-Ecova ... dZViewItem

more advanced electronic one.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LPG-Autogas-Upgra ... dZViewItem

i'm getting confused now!!! vaporiser choice is fairly easy in my case as most won't handle 220bhp! there seems a lot more choice in lambda control systems. some simple, some complex, some with fuel level and mixture gauges (nice) and even 'sport' settings!

[oze30]

Brian,

Out of all the stuff on that listing, what would I need? Which is the better kit?

[Brianmoooore]

Your assumptions about the multivalve are correct. The knurled nut is usually a manual shut off for the inlet pipe, but on yours, by its position, it looks like it might be a manual outlet shut off, backing up the solenoid valve.
The basic filler you have been supplied with is the French type, with an adaptor to use in the UK. The use of adaptors is frowned upon by the LPGA, and could cause you problems if you want the system certified.
OMVL R90e is reckoned to be the best available!
As for the lambda control systems, the first one seems a bit basic and the second one over the top, especially as you don't need an emulator for a M30 ECU.
The AEB Leonardo or Millenium lambda feedback controllers are reckoned to be the best, but I'm not sure if they are still available new.

[oze30]

I got a leonardo, but no interface. So I cant do diddly re: setup

[Brianmoooore]

I got a leonardo, but no interface. So I cant do diddly re: setup

I can point you towards a design for the interface lead, and can copy off the software for you.

[gareth]

sounds like a lucky choice of vaporiser then! it seems well priced too so i may well go for that. there's spare capacity for later upgrades too!

are these the AEB controller bits you mentioned?
http://www.autogasparts.co.uk/index.asp ... T&catid=15
will this need setup on a laptop? as i do not have one and i'm worse than bad at all things computer related!!!!

have you heard any views on the simple vacuum controlled type?

[Brianmoooore]

A google search for "AEB Leonardo" throws up a couple of suppliers, but I don't know how old these pages are of course.
The Rover link (first on my search) leads to a link to some screenshots of the Leonardo laptop displays.

[gareth]

looks involved!

what does the system connect up to then? lambda probe, tps, level sender in tank(?)?

[Brianmoooore]

are these the AEB controller bits you mentioned?
http://www.autogasparts.co.uk/index.asp ... T&catid=15
will this need setup on a laptop? as i do not have one and i'm worse than bad at all things computer related!!!!

have you heard any views on the simple vacuum controlled type?

The Millennium system on the Jaymic site is the one, although a little pricey. The change over switch supplied with this can be fitted perfectly into a spare E30 switch position, and looks OE!
The system needs setting up with a computer, but a PC can be used as instead. The laptop I use cost me £15 off ebay. Doesn't have to be the latest laptop!
I can copy off the millennium software as well if you need it, and I assure you, that you can't be less computer literate than me!
The vacuum controlled controller doesn't have a very good reputation.

[SPADGE]

Gareth has it occured to you that by the time you have added all that weight to your car it will be no quicker than a 325

Cols car dropped about an inch on the rear when he chucked the tank in the boot

[oze30]

Gareth has it occured to you that by the time you have added all that weight to your car it will be no quicker than a 325

Cols car dropped about an inch on the rear when he chucked the tank in the boot

and thats empty!

Although, the tank is the bigger 65 ish litre jobbie and weighs about 40-50kg on its own!

[Brianmoooore]

looks involved!

what does the system connect up to then? lambda probe, tps, level sender in tank(?)?

All very simple once you've done one.
Leonardo/Millennium needs permanent and switched ignition lives, ignition pulses from the coil negative, connection from the TPS, and from a lambda sensor, a connection to the LPG tank level sensor, has two voltage free relay contacts to cut the power to the petrol injectors, and has a feed out to control the gas solenoid valves.

[Brianmoooore]

Gareth has it occured to you that by the time you have added all that weight to your car it will be no quicker than a 325

Cols car dropped about an inch on the rear when he chucked the tank in the boot

and thats empty!

Although, the tank is the bigger 65 ish litre jobbie and weighs about 40-50kg on its own!

But the LPG weighs less than petrol! A full petrol tank and a full LPG tank won't weigh a lot different from each other.

[SPADGE]

Gareth has it occured to you that by the time you have added all that weight to your car it will be no quicker than a 325

Cols car dropped about an inch on the rear when he chucked the tank in the boot

and thats empty!

Although, the tank is the bigger 65 ish litre jobbie and weighs about 40-50kg on its own!

Col if you fill it with Helium it may negate the weight of the tank

[Brianmoooore]

Brian,

Out of all the stuff on that listing, what would I need? Which is the better kit?

Which listing? There's ebay links everywhere!