What brakes

[northloop]

for my track car.

First things first I am not one for buying £1500 AP racing brakes just for the hell of it.

As most of you know my car will be used 100% at the Nurburgring. The ring is not a hard braking circuit and the distance between hard braking points mean they do not cook as easily as they do on UK circuits.

With this in mind I will start out with standard calipers, steel brake lines and race fluid.

I am however looking for advice on discs and pads. My assumption is that in a car weighing around 1000kg's I will need something like DS2500 (or equivilant) pads but what discs?

What do you run, what life do you get from them on track and what are their characteristics?

My only stipulation is that when I go for the brakes they have to be there, fade is not an option.

Cheers

Gary

[schuey]

I run DS3000's and they are fantastic,I have also ran DS3000 up front with green stuff out back which also worked fine.
The above set up is fine from cold too,as I was using it as a daily driver,although my 325i will be mostly track, I will no doubt use the same set up. Totally fade free as a bonus
Standard rear discs(quality ones) and ATE power discs up front as they are cheap as chips from ECP and good kit too.

[Davenotouring]

ATE Power Discs have been recommended in the past by many people.

The boss at Circuit Supplies recommends using OE discs with Ferodo DS2500s, so I'd be happy using the ATEs (not that they are OE!)

Ferodo DS2500s I personally love, but many on N'loop don't agree (normally those with heavier cars)....if you do get fade, try the DS3000s.

Always decent fluid, castrol SRF is great.

I'm sure UB has looked at the Master Cyl, it appears to be a weak point on E30s.

A mate had Wilwoods on his 3.5 Touring and used that at the 'Ring and they were impressive. Cheaper than APs too.

[keri-WMS]

For what it's worth (asuming you'll be staying 260mm OEM-ish):

- EBC Greens are nasty
- EBC Reds are actually better from cold as they are more progressive, and of course work really well once hot. They are also kind to the discs, and last ok.

We know a friendy 4.0L-ish TVR race car running 280mm discs on Reds and they are plenty enough for the job round Brands etc. Never needed to try "full race" yellows!

As for discs - 99% of them are the same, only get grooved discs if you need to reduce/stop a nasty brake squeal.

[northloop]

Dave.

UB and I have already discussed Wilwoods, if we cant get a good set up any other way that is where we will go.

Thanks for the ATE comments

EBC greens will not be going anywhere near my car ......... I am non too keen on reds either..........Yellows appear to be better and are currently working well in my other track car.

DS2500's have been good to me in the past, DS3000's were overkill. The BMW being slightly heavier might warrant them though.

[JimmyC]

Mintex??

[northloop]

I had good results with Mintex on my other car. What type are suitable for the beemer and any experiences?

[Davenotouring]

DS2500's have been good to me in the past, DS3000's were overkill. The BMW being slightly heavier might warrant them though.

Agreed.

[Jhonno]

1155's i think work well on e30's

[gareth]

i could cook M1144's on standard size EBC disks in about 5 mins on the road when mine was a standard 325i touring. that said, me driving hard on the road does involve a LOT of braking. track use would be a lot smoother.

[jimcameron]

Subject interests me, too. I've got yellowstuff on vented disks... was fine... but will be going bigger brakes as the 335 will be getting UK work too.

I'll be interested to see how you get on! How much are the Wilwoods?

[northloop]

You can get Wilwood 4-pots including vented discs and pads (albeit fast road) for £400 including VAT. I would imagine you would be able to upgrade on the pads at a cost.

Jim your car seemed to be going really well with what you have at the moment . Did you get any fade at all? Were you doing any back to back laps? Any issues overall?

[JimmyC]

I had good results with Mintex on my other car. What type are suitable for the beemer and any experiences?

1155 front, 1144 rear

Looking at Mintex disks aswell but they are KA CHING

Been approached about trying EBC disks and Pads, will prob give it a go on a testday

[northloop]

It is looking like I will be able to get quite a nice discount from EBC in the non too distant future Jimmy

[cecotto_singh]

You can get Wilwood 4-pots including vented discs and pads (albeit fast road) for £400 including VAT. I would imagine you would be able to upgrade on the pads at a cost.

Jim your car seemed to be going really well with what you have at the moment . Did you get any fade at all? Were you doing any back to back laps? Any issues overall?

where can u get the wilwoods from? are they straight fit for e30 m3? any one got these on there car? thanks

[DaveD]

try these people

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Matt-Lewis-Rac ... QpZ2QQtZkm

[ChrisAppleby]

I am currently trying to fit a set of Wilwood four pot front calipers and large discs onto my 1986 E30 320 (running a 2.5 engine + 325iS suspension etc) that I bought from Matt Lewis. I have been having a few problems - and contacted Wilwood - they emailed me back and flatly refused to help ! I was just wanting some advice on the torque setting for the retaining bolts. Does anyone have any experience of fitting a Wilwood kit to a 4 stud E30 ?

It also appears that a longer flexi/braided hose is required than the standard item and the dust shields need to be removed.

This was going to be my final fix for my soggy brake pedal and heartstopping lack of brake performance on the track but it's proving to be a nightmare !

Thanks in advance
Chris D411E30

[Simon13]

Gary just got back from the the last trip from the ring.

I've been using mintex M1155's no fade problems at all for me after 4 trips there now. The only bad thing is they are very hard on the discs but seem to have a long shelf life. I did 20 laps this weekend with black diamond drilled and grooved dics. Both disks and pads were under 500 miles old before i went on track. I kept the rear pads standard though.

I also used ATE superblue dot 4 fluid. My only grumble was there was a bit too much travel in the pedal but this may of been a master cylinder or slight bleeding issue. I had braided lines on also.

I will have a look and see how they are for wear.

But my car was a full weight 325i touring with all carpet and trims fitted. I expect with your better track knowledge and lighter car you will get greater speeds than i did round the fast sections like fox's hole so maybe 130mph plus?! thats the fastest bit of the circut for me and i coast up the hill! i was too scared to go over 125 down there

[northloop]

Fuchsrohre is flat all the way through for me

Thanks for the comments though, much appreciated.

[Simon13]

Well my balls get a little bigger each trip!

[Davenotouring]

Well my balls get a little bigger each trip!

Too true Simon. Top marks this trip, I was impressed!

[Karan]

ds2500s wil be perfect and just use SRF fluid and stock ate discs

[Davenotouring]

I concur!

[stoneyV6]

I run DS3000's and they are fantastic,I have also ran DS3000 up front with green stuff out back which also worked fine.
The above set up is fine from cold too,as I was using it as a daily driver,although my 325i will be mostly track, I will no doubt use the same set up. Totally fade free as a bonus
Standard rear discs(quality ones) and ATE power discs up front as they are cheap as chips from ECP and good kit too.

going to try a similar setup myself DS3000 front DS2500 rear and ATE power discs (as you say cheap as chips) on the front will see how they go at oulton.

last time i used DS3000 i thought they were pretty good on our car no fade.

[Simon13]

Gary thinking about it you will be going a hell of alot quicker than me so you might want a slighty bigger setup.

What rim size will you be running?

[alwaysideways]

Hi all.
This is a very interseting thread!

I am wondering why some arent happy with the EBC greens...
Are they fast wearing ??

[gareth]

they cook quickly and don't have all that much bite. nowhere near as good as an EBC red in my experience.

[keri-WMS]

Greens feel "soft" compared to the Ceramic Reds (have yet to test this in a press!) and also don't appear much better than Reds when stone cold.

Greens do warm up more quickly, but they kind of "spike" (often locking the warmer wheel early, at random) where as the reds are more progressively better as they warm up - making them much more predictable.

Add to that that the reds bite harder when warm, and also keep working to much higher temperatures, I don't see the point of greens beyond (a) people ask for them and (b) they are about 20% cheaper than reds!

This is all my personal opinion based on testing on a few of our own cars.

[alwaysideways]

Bugger.
The song dung to me is of a softer compound giving a shorter stoppping distance at a reduced pad life, which is fine by me.
I have metal pads in the car at the mo, tho i need brakes on demand, preferably not when they are ready... Twice i have saved someones life on the road due to good brakes and suspension.
Ill be building a 'big brake' setup using off the shelf parts, so the surface area and swept rotor area will increase while the weight remains the same, but it is reassuring to know the pads wont let you down..