** Cut Ski hatch, and test fitted 4 x 15" subs!!!! **

[aceraf]

Been busy today...

removed back seats, and cut out the ski hatch....i just used a straight faced screwdriver, and a hammer, and sort of chisseled away at the joints, came out pretty easily...

i then test fitted my 4 15inch subs i've had lying about from my old install...

good news is they all fit in....
only bad point is, I wanted them all facing forwards, but looks like i'm going to have to play about with the orientation to squeeze them all in...

shouldn't have any problem getting the bass into the cabin with these monsters....only problem is, these subs cracked my old cars tailgate...and that was a hatchback, so i'm worried about damage....

going to dynamat the boot before i put them in for real!

they also lowered the car by about 10-20mm , so it's another thing to consider when i lower the car!

anyway... here's some pics...




without subs

with subs (pics aren't great as i took the one without the subs from a higher position giving the impression that the gap is less...but there was a noticable difference in the gap by eye)


The first way i tested was 2 facing backwards, and 2 facing upwards...fits, but need to remove tool box from boot lid...then tried 2 facing forwards, and 2 facing backwards....better...but would be firing straight into the boot about 1 inch away!

the last pic of the subs shows what it'd look like with 2 subs facing forwards!....suppose it'd be quite easy to make a covering board, and make it stealth.

[pictonroad]

lordy lord...

Wouldn't it be better with just two, that's a lot of air moving in different directions in a very very small space...

[aceraf]

I'm still contemplating that....

I've had the subs sitting in my front room since christmas, and the misses is getting a bit peed off with me....!!!

I'm gona dynamat the whole boot, and also the cabin inside the car, below the rear seats to minimise vibration, but yes.... 60inches of air displacement does shake your fillings out!!!

This install sounded absolutely awesome in my last car, but that was a hatch, and i had no backseats, and the subs were right behind the front seats....in this they're going to either be firing up at the boot-lid, or backwards, towards the lights.

Going to be interesting getting this to work well...

need to find an amp first...sold the one i had last christmas, along with most of the install....
need 1400W rms to power the subs properly... or 700rms if i only use 2! and the problem i have is i have a budget of £140 tops (don't really have any spare cash, and will be digging into other funds )

[yes i am crazy, and do like my music loud...very loud ]

[Brenner5]

thats some crazy stuff you doing there...

you should check out a websute called www.talkaudio.co.uk, it really good for sound/installs etc

i had one Digital Designs 9515 15" sub in my boot a while back in a 3cu box, gave a really good thump... but 4 subs is next level..

where are the amps going to sit??

[chu346]

i'd make a different box, like this:

so having the rear of the box wedged against the rear of the seat and cut out the rear of the box where the ski hatch is. This should make the box just a holder for the subs and the boot will be the box now all the bass will go into the cabin. I did this on an e46 saloon and the sound was awesome, I used four cheap 12" jbls and it was so deep and clear with less vibration than normal setups.

As for the number plate area rattling etc, an idea I haven't tried yet would be to fit mdf around the sides of the boot.

[aceraf]

thats some crazy stuff you doing there...

you should check out a websute called www.talkaudio.co.uk, it really good for sound/installs etc

i had one Digital Designs 9515 15" sub in my boot a while back in a 3cu box, gave a really good thump... but 4 subs is next level..

where are the amps going to sit??

There's plenty of room on either side of the sub closest to the back of the car...so going to mount them on the sides.

Will only need 2 for this install....one powering the subs, and then other for the speakers....

I am planning a 9000Watt RMS Audiobahn install very soon which will need 4 amps to power 4 subs which are 2250Watts rms each...4 red top batteries...2 alternators....lots of powercaps and 2-3 amps for the speakers...

need to find a suitable car for that project, and sort out a deal with the shop that'll be supplying the equipment....gota go to spain to get all the stuff, and will be saving about £4K!

That's all for another day though...will have to make do with this lot for now

[aceraf]

i'd make a different box, like this:

so having the rear of the box wedged against the rear of the seat and cut out the rear of the box where the ski hatch is. This should make the box just a holder for the subs and the boot will be the box now all the bass will go into the cabin. I did this on an e46 saloon and the sound was awesome, I used four cheap 12" jbls and it was so deep and clear with less vibration than normal setups.

As for the number plate area rattling etc, an idea I haven't tried yet would be to fit mdf around the sides of the boot.

getting that box made professionally would cost around £300/400 min...
just want to get them out of the house for now...

also the problem with that is what do i do if i want to remove 2 of them?
this way i can still have 2 in, that's the reason i put them in seperate boxes in the first place.

[aceraf]

thats some crazy stuff you doing there...

you should check out a websute called www.talkaudio.co.uk, it really good for sound/installs etc

i had one Digital Designs 9515 15" sub in my boot a while back in a 3cu box, gave a really good thump... but 4 subs is next level..

where are the amps going to sit??

whats with your sig pic, and the subs seamingly sitting on the rear seats?

[chu346]

i'd make a different box, like this:

so having the rear of the box wedged against the rear of the seat and cut out the rear of the box where the ski hatch is. This should make the box just a holder for the subs and the boot will be the box now all the bass will go into the cabin. I did this on an e46 saloon and the sound was awesome, I used four cheap 12" jbls and it was so deep and clear with less vibration than normal setups.

As for the number plate area rattling etc, an idea I haven't tried yet would be to fit mdf around the sides of the boot.

getting that box made professionally would cost around £300/400 min...
just want to get them out of the house for now...

also the problem with that is what do i do if i want to remove 2 of them?
this way i can still have 2 in, that's the reason i put them in seperate boxes in the first place.

I made my box for less than 20quid all in.

What do you want to take two out for?

You could always replace one of the panels if needed

[aceraf]

I've gone off home made jobs...never sound the same...or anywhere near....the enclosure is a big part of the subs, and while i understand what you're saying....its more time, and more money spent, without any guarantee it's going to sound the same, let alone better!!!

1inch MDF would cost more thatn 20 quid....so i'm afraid to ask what sort of box you made...

[miniblob]

Liking the idea for that box Chu!!!!!

Aceraf - i normally find homemade boxes can be a lot better, but you gotta put the effort in!!

[chu346]

Well i've been doing car stereos for 8 years now and have always bought my mdf from B&Q 3/4 inch and never had any problems. The box will need internal bracing and when made you would be able to jump up and down on it mate, I know i've tried to show my mate and i'm 15stone.

Liking the idea for that box Chu!!!!!

Aceraf - i normally find homemade boxes can be a lot better, but you gotta put the effort in!!

Thank you!

I shall be doing this myself in a month or two and shall let you know the results.

Another box that I designed was a isobaric(sp) ported box where you have one (or in this case two) speakers on the front of the box with a big port in the middle the put two other speakers on top of the speakers already in the box, so you will see the rear of two speakers and the rear of the other speakers will be inside the box. This is something I tried in my first e30 five years ago. The sound is unbelivably clean due to one speaker pushing and another pulling which stops all the wobble wobble you get when pushing the speakers hard. You need to tune the box low though to compensate. Must also add that I didn't have an arm rest in this can because it was a 316i so the box was facing the rear of the boot, number plate side.

[aceraf]

I don't doubt that it can be good...after all the people who make custom sub-boxes are only human....but if i did a custom box, it would have to be perfect, and to be honest, with work, and college, I get little time off to work on my car....i'll be lucky if i can wash it everyweek let alone work on the audio

I was actually going to make the box like you've suggested in my previous car....but never got round to it....i had all the drawing, and calculations for different cubic capacities to tune the sound and all sorts....still have them lying about some where

If you go ahead with the build, be sure to take plenty of pics to illustrate any partitions in the box design.

I may not even be putting the ICE in after all...got a call from someone today who wants to buy the subs...if he offers the right amount, then i'll sell, and spend that money on my car....and will start saving for the 9000W rms install.....yes nine thousand!!!

[kam325itouring]

make the box your self if you put the effort in you will get the result you want. dude make the box smaller and wadd it out!! you will get the same result.

oh yeah buy a tourer, you dont get these problems with space!!!

[oze30]

I thought you cut the ski hatch out and then put the subs coming through the hatch!

[aceraf]

The installs all but stoppped at this point....

still need to decide if it's worth buying the amp i have in mind,

and also need to get the alarm fitted before anything else happens....

I don't have either the time or money (main one being the time) to work on making a custom box at the moment, which is why i wanted to put the subs in as they are.

The subs will be facing the hatch (2 of them anyway).

[aceraf]

slightly off topic, but does anyone know what amp the original alternator produces on a 316i M40?

I'm considering investing in a Split charge relay, and would like to match it to the ampage produced....

also, has anybody got a 2 battery setup, and if so, what battery/alternator/split charge relay did you use?

When i had this setup in my old car it was producing 1200W rms at 1ohm, and i had 2 new batteries in that car...

I'm now going to be getting an amp that produces 1500W rms at 1ohm, and therefore i'm needing some back-up for the old e30's little electric heart!

[aceraf]

Need advise really...

about to start my install....(got my new amp through today ),

and wanted some advise on where/which grommet people use to take the power cable from the engine bay to the amp....

prompt replies would be appreciated as i'd like to get it installed asap....

i'll get some pics up once it's installed!! Still deciding if i'm going to use 2 15" subs or 4!

[aceraf]

Okay,

I got everything installed today.....
and i have installed all 4 15" subs in the boot.....

here's the full spec:-

4 x Infinity Component speakers (2 in front and 2 in back)
4 x tweeters (no real brand, but used them before, and they sound awesome!)
[All of the speakers go through Infinity crossovers]

4 x 15" Vibe BlackAir Subwoofers (350W rms each)
1 x Loudest.com Amplifier (1500w rms @ 1ohm & 900w rms @ 2ohm - so perfect for this install)
1 farad Power Cap
4 gauge wiring throughout.


the amp + cap went infront of the subs (closest to the rear seats side), and there's plenty of room around everything to work on!!!

Not really cranked it yet, as i need a 120A fuse, and could only find a 60A fuse lying about!

did a small test to see what it sounded like....and.....it's loud!!

I'll get some pics up asap.....although there's not much to see.....the box's fill the boot, so all you can see is 2 big boxes.....but i've taken some pics from the ski hatch, so i'll get them up asap...

I'm using a really crap head-unit, and that's playing the music via an FM transmitter, so i know the sound i'll get will be much improved once i get round to purchasing a few more additions....but for now it'll do!!

[aceraf]

here are the pics....didn't get to take many during the installation as the camera battery died....

Starting the wiring....4 gauge wire was a real pain to get into the e30!

Power cord went straight down the middle of the car...

View through the ski hatch....as you can see there was quite alot of space left between the subs and the the rear of the seats! plenty of space to mount the amp and power cap!

View through the ski hatch...a real mess, but i'll tidy it all up soon

the amp being used

amp again..

amp again...

This is where i mounted the remote wire for the amp to control the bass level.... i removed the light adjustment thingy-bob and placed the remote in the whole....only problem is that it's upside down at the moment!

The tweeters mounted upfront....didn't want to put them there, but was running out of time, so will stay there for now!

The rear tweeters mounted behind the seat belt thingy...and the speaker covers actually have speakers underneath...i wanted to use 6x9's, but don't want to butcher the rear shelf anymore than it already is!

Looking nice and tidy, and stock!

view from rear window...

view from rear window

The subs.....not a great view, but very functional....notice the tool kit had to be removed!

the gap between the subs facing the boot, and the boot itself....plenty of room for the excursion there!

room on the side of the subs...and more messy wiring....will tidy soon....all tools still accessible, and only 4 wires need to be disconnected to get to the spare!


Looking at it now, i should've cleaned the subs (been lying about for ages), and need to tidy the wiring up, but i'll get round to that soon....

I'll let you know how much rattle there is when i crank it....tested it today briefly, and sounded really really deep, but very little distorsion, and couldn't hear any rattle, although it's not tunning full pelt yet

Oh, and the gap between the rear wheels and arch is drastically reduced....but the front still has a massive gap

[ed325i]

1 x Loudest.com Amplifier (1500w rms @ 1ohm & 900w rms @ 2ohm - so perfect for this install)

Can you let me know what you think about the amp, I was thinking about getting one.

[aceraf]

still testing it out...and i don't recommend anything to anyone till i'm happy with it...

in theory it stacks up well, and for the money i could only find one amp on the net that compete with it, and that was from Germany, and was a 4 channel amp.

As i've said, i need to get a 120A fuse as recommended to get the full amount out of the amp! Also my head-unit is really crap at the moment, so could do with a better audio source aswell!!!

I'll let you know what i think once i've tested it properly!!!

[dazleeds]

yeh id be interested in the test result too

keep noticing these but wont risk buying one till i hear they can take a hammering

[aceraf]

i contacted the manufacturers many times before buying it....and it does look/feel quite sturdy....is quite heavy, but surprisingly small in comparison to my old Vibe VP4!

The thing that worried me was the fact it has no fuses built in, but the manufacturers re-assured me that i would'nt have any problems, and that a 120A fuse was recommended....

so in theory

12 Volts * 120Amp = 1440
14.4 Volts * 120Amp = 1728

so with the voltage normally being in between it should be capable of the 1500W rms at 1ohm that i require!

[aceraf]

small admission.....

i made a real amatuer mistake during the install....

seen as the previous owner had already installed wiring going to the rear of the car, i stupidly used this to connect to my crossovers, and didn't replace it with a better quality wire....

as a result, it went tits up today....and there was no sound at all!!!

I thought it was the head-unit initally, but after some troubleshooting (about 30 mins ) having disconnected all the speakers, i then connected them up 1 by 1, and found the right rear was causing the problem..

it turned out that the wire the previous owned had used was causing some sort of problem (probably due to a split somewhere along the line), and this was shorting out all of the speakers signal!

Having replaced that it's all working again now!! (phew!)

I think I'm going to take it all out, and put new wiring in when i get time!!!!

The wiring i've got for my amp and sub, and all the little splitters etc totalled £350!!!

I really should've known better than to trust the cheap wire that was already installed

[let that be a lesson to me!!]

[dark_sounds]

the loudest amps have been tested before... there shit... unfortunatly, they dont put the power they say they do... also have no protection iirc,, based on the proplus nemesis,, (dont quote me on that,, they were tested a while ago..)

your wiring route you have taken isnt the best... you could have just gone down the drivers side with the power cable,,, using the original channal for the rear battery conversion,, that way no need to tuck it under carpet and getting a bump... its also a shorter distance therefore you would get less voltage drop.. and higher current handling capabilities.. while your at it, tbh if your aiming for a proper install, then you should have uprated to 0awg for the hell of it,, marginall little bit more,, but much better reward,,, you should have assumed the use of a second battery,, especially as the first battery is standard.

you havnt used any sound deadening...??? major flaw there,, anyone who sat in my old IS, (gouki? cliffybabe?) can tell you how clear it was even at the high volumes, you will be looosing alot of sound energy transfered to kinitec energy via resonance in your panals.

having the sub so close to the rear is not doing you any good... your not allowing the subs to breath, especially with another box right behind it..

your wiring for the speaker terminals are in a inappropriate place,, should that boot rubber leak,,, and a few drops go on top and short out ,, youll be screwed...

the voltage will not be 12v,,, unless your using 55amps worth of current your voltage will be dropping,,, plus the fact of your 4 awg wiring,, and the distance its travelling.. voltage drop will kill your subs,, as it will send your amp into clipping and fry the amp.. (common with proplus nemisis... also came with no fuses or protection circuits..)

you say you have plenty of room for excursion,, its not just the excursion, as mentioned,, they need to breathe...

350£ on wiring on connectors?? lol... 16£ 4 awg wiring kit, some 12-16 awg speaker wire, and a few connectors,,,

you need to amp your components,, the components in the back are of no use,, there directly sharing the air with the subs, so will get a)fucked, b) sound shit. 1 pair of components, amped and aimed up front,, will be more then enough..

im willing to bet 1x15" with 700 watts rms, in a proper install will sound loader and better then that...

dont take this as me having a go and taking the piss,, use it as constructive critism,, its not about look at me iv got loads of subs,, i can get 2x10 subs and make you believe from hearing it that im running 4x12s in your set up.. i garentee my 2x12s i used to have wil have sounded clearer and louder then that...

if you really want a proper loud install, then id think about redoing it properly.. not only will this sound shit,, but its dangerous in terms of what your running and the precautions being taken... keep a fire extinguisher to hand..

seeing installs like this really make me want to get back into ICE... just to show what a bit of knowledge can really do.

but i suppose if your happy then your happy....

[aceraf]

hahaha...
if it weren't for the fact that i've had this very install in my previous car working with no problems for 3 years+ than you'd be right....

i don't know if you're trying to criticise or make a suggestion....but had you bothered to read the whole post, then you'd realise i'm using all this kit as i don't want to be spending more money on wiring/equipment as i'd rather spend it on the car....the only reason i put everything in was because they'd been lying about for so long....

I fully intend on upgrading to a second battery aswell as a updated alternator, or a 2nd alternator and switch relays etc....just not yet....

as for sound deadning.....this install is going to be coming out many times, so plenty of time to do so!

the rear speakers are set to only produce high notes so very little if any excursion will be needed...

oh and i'm not cranking this thing up yet....it's no where near finshed so it would be stupid to do so!

[dark_sounds]

hahaha...
if it weren't for the fact that i've had this very install in my previous car working with no problems for 3 years+ than you'd be right....

i don't know if you're trying to criticise or make a suggestion....but had you bothered to read the whole post, then you'd realise i'm using all this kit as i don't want to be spending more money on wiring/equipment as i'd rather spend it on the car....the only reason i put everything in was because they'd been lying about for so long....

I fully intend on upgrading to a second battery aswell as a updated alternator, or a 2nd alternator and switch relays etc....just not yet....

as for sound deadning.....this install is going to be coming out many times, so plenty of time to do so!

the rear speakers are set to only produce high notes so very little if any excursion will be needed...

oh and i'm not cranking this thing up yet....it's no where near finshed so it would be stupid to do so!

all im simply saying is, theres just no need for 4x15s,,, installed in such a shoddy manner,, realistically, get rid of 3 of them, and just use the one, with a good power source, good amp, and well designed box,,, a well designed box makes a heck of a difference..

the fact you ran the loudest amp for 3 years just prooves it doesnt put out more then 1000-1200 watts RMS. should you have put this out,, you would have most likely blown a fuse, or caused serious voltage drop...

iirc, the loudest amps were made about 2 years ago,, might be wrong though... the proplus nemisis were being made for ages...

also you could have spent a bit more time planning and just doing it once,, sell of the stuff you dont need and do a proper job, first time round, without all the ball ache.. ill spend AGES planning a system, just as people spend AGES planning a engine build.. if you dont spend the time planning,, you end up with all kinds of crap.

and so you want to spend money on the car?? but adding all that wieght in the back will do your rear suspension set up no good!, subframe, topmounts, springs, shocks, will all suffer!

and you dont need a uprated alturnator,, your only running a possible 1500 watts,, a second battery and the big 3 will do... (big 3: uprating the cabling between battery and alturnator, battery to chassis, and alturnator to chassis,, 0 awg,,, and you may as well use 0 awg from the front to rear and channal it down the side like i said, nice and secluded,, fits in the clips and shortest distance)

you also dont seem to know much about frequencies and directionalities... if you want high frequencies from the rear,, then you really should want to aim them a bit more.. low frequences dont need aiming,,, higher frequencies do.. heck, midbass frequencies dont really need aiming either,, midrange and tweets do. also without amped components,, all youll be getting is loads of low bass, a bit of high freq, but nothing in the middle...a rumble and a screetch, but no midbass punch..

as i said,, im not having a all out go,, just saying what you should have done,, and my justification.

ebay your crap, and redo it properly,, youll be happier

[aceraf]

Once again, read the post....

the amp is new, and hence the reason i've put all 4 subs in, to test if their claim of power is true or not...

prior to that i had a vp4 running them!

I'm really not interested in having an argument with you about this...

as has been said so many times on various issues....

i like it, so that's that!

If i wanted to spend money, and buy all new kit to suit the e30, then yes i would've probably done most things you've suggested....i regretted not going to 0gauge wire in the first place....

but the fact is all i'm doint is getting a mass of audio out of my house...and into the car....

This is no show car....and i dont' intend on taking it to show...

i don't drive round blasting bass....

and yes it is a bit of an overkill, but i probably wont ever push these fully till it's all done properly....!!

no offence, but you really need to read posts before you go posting messages...

clearly you know what you're talking about when it comes to audio....

but the e30 is not a car i'd build an competition ice install in (apart from the touring for obvious reasons)

as a summary for you...

this install was about using what i've got, and more so checking to see what the amp performs like....i very much doubt the figures they claim, but i know what it performed like with the VP4, and i can use that as a comparison!

I hope that's okay with you sir!!!

[dark_sounds]

lol, fair enough.

saloons arnt bad for doing audio in,, again there is methods to get round it can be better in some ways if you seal away from the boot, (less cabin space..)

get an oscilliscope to the amp,, see what the sginals like so that you can set the gains up properly without risking screwing up everything and also maximises the amps capabilities with respect to the power set up you have.

your right,, i should have read it,, but i just saw title... pictures,, 1 amps and some 4awg and thought WTF!?

iv offered my advice before,, ill offer again, when you come round to doing it properly, let me know. 1 good 12" will be more then enough bass if you dont cane it,, and you can get 12s which handle 1k easily, and within your budget custom box,, and what not and youll be laughing,, but all in good time im sure.

[aceraf]

Fair play, there are alot of people on here looking for advise/suggestions....

When i come round to installing it properly i'll drop you a bell!!

for now it'll have to do!!