M30 touring suspension choices

[gareth]

ok people, i finally have a bit of cash for a decent suspension kit. what else is eveyone using on 335i's?

i like the idea of the touring 60/40 H&R cup kit but it sits very high at the rear from the pics i've seen. the KW kit seems good value and has a level drop (will be a bit nose down with the M30)

despite the car currently looking mean at about 70/40 on suspected 4 pot touring springs , i'm getting bored of driving onto blocks to get a jack underneath and crashing along on the bump stops. if 40/40 keeps me clear of the bump stops then i'm happy.

in an ideal world, i personally prefer my suspension a lot harder than most and this need is eccentuated by the heavier M30.


can anyone make any recommendations?

[Andy335Touring]

Coil over conversion so you can play with the spring rates/ride hieght ?

I've got a bit of a mix and match on mine, Spax adjustable dampers F+R with Spax M3 front springs and Spax saloon/touring rear springs, i want to swap the front for some BMW M3 air-con springs like Alpina used on the B6. The Spax M3 front springs are a tad low for my liking.

You know how suspension choice threads go, every one has there favourite brand.

[oze30]

How do the M3 springs handle the extra weight?

I'm running used -35mm H&R touring springs, but the ass is abit too high, even with an LPG toroid tank in the floor. Front is just right, not too low, not too high, but wouldnt mind lowering the rear and changing the shockers.

[ric325i]

i have 40mm drop all round on cheap jamex stuff and they are good!

nice and stiff could be a little stiffer but its a cheap good option

[gareth]

i agree with the nose down, arse up effect of the h&r stuff. it's not too bad on the saloon but the touring looks odd.

i was bidding on some used LEDA coiovers on ebay but they went for over £500 which is a bit steep and beyond my budget.

i think i'll give the KW stuff a go actually... Sal reckons they're good and are only £325

[Andy335Touring]

How do the M3 springs handle the extra weight?

S14 + air con compressor/rad/ect = M30 weight or so the theory goes ?

My Spax M3 springs handle the weight fine, they are just a bit too low for me(and the sump !).

Another thing about ride heights accross the range is the M3 rides the lowest as standard, sort of.....

boggo E30 -> 325 Sport/318is -> M3

Just don't put M3 springs on the back of a touring unless you like them sat on their arse.

[Andy335Touring]

oh yeah just so you know how high/low mine is.....

(the back looks a tad lower in real life)

[Simon13]

this is hardly high on cupkit springs




these are not cupkit shocks though. I just can't get it any lower it scrapes everywhere too, but i can put up with that

[Simon13]

M30 would no doubt bring the front down even more!

it is running 205/50/15 tyres which drops it even more though, it's ok on standard sized tyres for scraping if you slow. It's my centre box which is taking a nice hammering

[gareth]

isn't your cupkit a saloon one though?

[Simon13]

doesn't make a difference. I'll post up what saloon springs are really like on touring when i get back from the ring. With this setup the car handles in a very neutral manner and i can't see it being a problem round the ring tbh, as i have pushed it hard enough on the road to get a good idea

When i had this combo on my sport it sat this low also. Get touring specific if your going to be towing!

The way i see it is the extra weight over the back on a touring is like carrying a passenger in the boot all the time so how can it be a problem?!

[DRIFTBOY]

The way i see it is the extra weight over the back on a touring is like carrying a passenger in the boot all the time so how can it be a problem?!

Which is why, in my opinion, swapping an M20 for an M30 barely makes a noticeable difference to the front. That's like having a very, very small person sitting on the bonnet!

I have a 60/40 drop on my 2 door 335 and it sits nice and level.

Martin.

[gareth]

simon, it must be sitting near 60/60 judging by the pics. don't get me wrong, if it handles well (inc over bumps and when loaded) and looks that good, then i'd be 100% happy. keep me posted on the progress round the ring?!!!!


martin, i agree that the M30 doesn't add that much but with my (suspected) 4 pot springs i felt it! mainly as the springs are too soft and it's now sitting nearer 70/40!!!


if i could get near 60/60 with stiff suspension so it's always clear of it's bumpstops then that's perfect. the reason for going 40/40 is to maintain suspension travel that doesn't bottom out but i'd still rather lower and stiffer.
i was happy with my MK2 RS2000 and that had 320lb/in springs and inverted group 4 bilstein coilovers. the standard springs are 140lb/in it also had 30mm chassis leg to floor clearance!

i was talking to sal earlier about this and he reckons the inverted billies are the way to go and i agree. if i combined them with a coilover conversion (properly done) then i might be in business. the ground control kits look good... http://www.ground-control-store.com/pro ... php/II=121

[DRIFTBOY]

martin, i agree that the M30 doesn't add that much but with my (suspected) 4 pot springs i felt it! mainly as the springs are too soft and it's now sitting nearer 70/40!!!


http://www.ground-control-store.com/pro ... php/II=121

Aaah, I forgot you had four-pot springs. That would make a bit of a difference then!

After trying two other makes of spring I do thoroughly recommend H&R.

Coil overs would be nice though, some nice looking gear on that website!

Martin.

[gareth]

how firm are the H&R springs compared with the others?

i saw something lovely on my springs the other day, the evidence of coil binding ON EVERY COIL!!!

[DRIFTBOY]

I found H&R to be a lot less 'crashy' than other springs, a very nice drive but feels good in the corners too. I'm happy to take you for a spin when we meet up again, perhaps the next Westerham meet ?

Martin.

[gareth]

sounds like a plan. i may be sorted by then though. the longer i have this spare cash, the more my wife spends on clothes! it's a race to spend it first!!!

[DRIFTBOY]

What is it with clothes ?

You can only wear one set at a time with one pair of shoes!

Tuning up cars is waaaaay more important!

Martin.

[gareth]

i know!!! that said, she's spending a bit on her monster 998 mini too!!!

it's getting a badass matt black paintjob

[DRIFTBOY]

That is

I bet you regularly nick it and take it for a blast round some twisties!

I would!

Edit : If it's possible to 'blast' with 998cc that is!

Martin.

[evodan]

I fitted H&R 35 mm springs and cup kit shocks to my M30 (p2.5) and found that the front springs sagged after 8k miles road use so changed them over for M3 aircon front springs.
Front now sits slighty higher than the rear but now have some suspension travel at least and no issues with humps/ground clearance, also handles well.
Overall would say H&R good quality for the cash but IMO front springs not suitable for M30.
If I was to replace the set up I would go for inverted billies and keep the M3 aircon springs

[DRIFTBOY]

Hmmm, interesting.

I've only done not even half that milage on mine so far, I'll keep an eye on them!

Martin.

[gareth]

martin, i do regularly steal the thing! never before or since has a rip-snorting 37bhp been so much fun!!!!

evodan, that's very interesting, thanks. this is the same basic setup that sal suggested after pondering with ideas a bit! what did the springs cost? were they new? what are you using on the rear?

don't suppose you have any pics of the car do you?

[gareth]

this is a reason to use 2.25" coilover spring though. any rate / length you want and only £30 a pair!!!

[evodan]

Got the M3 springs from a zoner secondhand mate cant remember the cost but very reasonable
rears are still the H&R 35mm 325 touring
This is the only pic I have since I changed the fronts mate not very good I know but might give you an idea, wheels are 16" and ride is ma new 1200 bandit

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6819/dsc00106lt3.jpg

[gareth]

anthracite 16" 'pinas too, like mine!!!!

from the pic, it doesn't look that high at the front...?


i just got a email back from ground control in the states, they can calculate custom spring rates for my specific axle weights and target ride height. the kit is $399 + $180 shipping that's £293. not bad though it'll obviously need import duty etc...

i'm tempted to make up something myself

[gareth]

i've extracted some info from ground control in the states...

they reckon the front spring rates should be about 350lb/in front and 500lb/in rear.

now to see how that compares with standard and 'other' makes...

[DRIFTBOY]

they reckon the front spring rates should be about 350lb/in front and 500lb/in rear.

now to see how that compares with standard and 'other' makes...

Is that right ? - Stiffer rear springs on a front heavy car ?

Sounds odd to me, or am I thinking about it the wrong way or something ? I am a bit so logic might be slightly buckled!

Martin.

[gareth]

there's a higher leverage ratio at the spring on the rear.

[DRIFTBOY]

Oh, I see! That makes sense, I think!

I suppose because of where it's positioned in the trailing arm. ?

Martin.

[gareth]

yup! probably near a 2:1 lever ratio on the spring.

[DRIFTBOY]

It's great how a can of Fosters and 2 litres of Strongbow can give clarity to certain things!

Any luck with your diff plan yet ?

Your car should be nicely sorted when it's back on the road!
Especially if the new brakes are success too!

Martin.

[gareth]

strongbow? nice!!!!! hehe! i was been thinking about as clearly as Vladimir Putin last night, then i was drinking a lot of his favorite drink!

the diff plan is underway! i have a 3.25 LSD unit and CW&P coming from mr jonb. i'll pull that apart and probably rebuild and fiddle with the ramp angles then i need to throw it in a new casing. i've also got a complete rear subframe coming that i can repaint and refit with my poly subframe mounts, poly diff push, OEM offset trailing arm bushes, new brake pipes and i can use the parts to develop the rear kit on. then slap on a fresh uprated M3 LDS and i'm away

don't know of any cheap meadium casing diffs locally do you? obviously ratio and condition aren't too important.

[DRIFTBOY]

Sounds good!

I've got my original open diff still. Would a 1989 325 have a medium case ? How do I tell ?
It was absolutely knackered, sounded like a jet plane taking off when you drove!

If it's any use to you, you are welcome to it.

Martin.

[gareth]

ooh, handy, it might well be useful actually! as far as i know it'll be the right one.

are you about this afternoon? my wife is driving from gravesend to hastings later with my LPG kit and rear subframe in the car, maybe she could call in yours too?!!!

that'll teach her for going to a mates in london overnight and thinking i don't want compensation for looking after the kids on a day like today! that's 2 parts pickups so far!!!!

if you're about, pm me your number? i've lost yours