280mm disc conversion.... Update 20/06/07

[Niggy]

I used Pug 406 3.0V6, call me for more info on mounting bracket.

[jmc330i]

Not good news about this one Im afraid, it doesnt look like this can be done so easily

The 280mm disc and E30 caliper will fit inside the 15" BBS wheel easily. The problem is mounting the caliper, as it only needs moving out 10mm to fit the larger disc.
Because the mounting holes on the strut and caliper are not offset from each other, 10mm isnt enough to allow the mounting bolts to pass each other.....


Ive havent been able to go see the guy who would be making the brackets yet, but I explained to him on the phone and he understood the problem.
He said using larger discs again would help the problem as the caliper would need mounting futher out, but then the question of what discs etc pops up. And by using larger discs (if any can be found that fit), it might not be such a budget conversion and a little pointless when you consider the 750 caliper conversion.

So, unless anyone has any bright ideas, I dont think this is going to happen

[Andy335Touring]

thats a shame, i'm sure i read ages ago that Dave Walker did this mod some how to his old E30 in an old copy of PPC ?

How big a disc do you think you'd need to clear the mounting holes but be small enough to fit under 15's, 290-300mm ?

[Jon_Bmw]

Thinking out loud a bit here:

You have a 280mm disc. How wide is it. 20mm? 22, 30?

On our 200sx we have 4 pot calipers that fit under 15" wheels and the disc size is 280mm x 21mm although it would accept a 28 or 30 mm wide disc. Orginally it had the same type of caliper design that the e30 had, the single piston on a slider but it accepts the 4 pot caliper off the s14 200sx using the same mounting holes.

I was wondering that if you got an adapter to go from the e30 hub to the 200sx caliper whether it would fit under a BBS wheel.

A long shot but you never know

Currently don't have the offsets to hand, but it does require a 3mm spacer.

[Demlotcrew]

Jmc all is not lost yet,

You can do what you are planning quite easy, but im not sure how to explain how you would need to design the calliper bracket to move it out slightly.

Andrew

[BadDave]

These could be made to fit e30 ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/brembo-305mm-disc ... dZViewItem

This is similar to the kit I made and fitted to my touring.
Calipers were from an E38 728i.
Discs wereChrysler Voyager.
Whole lot cost a LOT less than the £500 of the winning bid tho

Pics here http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... =brake+kit

[jokipea]

jmc330i,
Instead of trying to fit caliper in line with the existing holes, would it be possible to rotate the caliper upwards, in relation to centre of disc, till the holes are clear of each other? The back-plate would have to be cut to move caliper but if the caliper was at 10/11 oclock instead of 9/10 oclock, would you be able to make a bracket to fit caliper in this position?

[ste]

My thoughts exactly. Remove the backing plate and rotate the caliper.

[jmc330i]

thats a shame, i'm sure i read ages ago that Dave Walker did this mod some how to his old E30 in an old copy of PPC ?

Any idea of how long ago or which issue? Ive got a load of PPC mags but they probably dont go back far enough.

How big a disc do you think you'd need to clear the mounting holes but be small enough to fit under 15's, 290-300mm ?

After a bit of playing around and measuring, I reckon 290mm would be the absolute smallest, 295mm would be ok and still have caliper to rim clearance. 300mm would make mounting the caliper easier, but the top edge of the caliper (and possibly a little of the carrier) would need machining flat to clear the rim.
The problem would be finding a suitable disc.

Thinking out loud a bit here:

You have a 280mm disc. How wide is it. 20mm? 22, 30?

280x22mm - same thinkness as the E30 disc.

jmc330i,
Instead of trying to fit caliper in line with the existing holes, would it be possible to rotate the caliper upwards, in relation to centre of disc, till the holes are clear of each other? The back-plate would have to be cut to move caliper but if the caliper was at 10/11 oclock instead of 9/10 oclock, would you be able to make a bracket to fit caliper in this position?

Now that I did think of, but I cant get the backplate off without removing the hub and I dont want to start cutting it cause Ive got the strut on loan.
Anyone see any problems with rotating the caliper??

[Niggy]

No problems with rotating caliper !, i moved my brembos up a bit if i new how to put pic's on here i would show you .
Heard alot of things like it wont work propaly or it will flex and rub, well used it for the first time last weekend at Brands and it worked a treat
Only problem i found with Pug 406 3.0V6 Brembo 305mm disk is they are very flat not mutch offset witch put's caliper closer too the back of the spoke's, so i had too fit 20mm spacer's. The only wheels that will fit are Compomotive Mo 5's and CXR if you want too stay with 15"

[HairyScreech]

dose anything from a vauxhall come close? iirc they are all 4x100 pcd. might be able to use somthing from one of the gsi's

[Niggy]

dose anything from a vauxhall come close?

Pcd not that important Pug disk 105x4 pcd, just redrill 100x4 pcd.
Its the center ID thats important, and alot of Pug's are spot on

[keri-WMS]

You lot are getting very "warm" to the new disc I've been prototyping E30 kits with on the quiet!!! So I better own up now.

I can supply Pug based 34.2mm "high" (E30 OEM is 35mm high/offset) 302mm x 26mm discs with the E30 4x100mm pcd added for £55.11+vat / pair - READY TO FIT. I can even do them grooved, beats a certain 25mm thick needs-machining Audi disc methinks....

So there it is, you know my dirty secret before it became a WMS brake kit!!!

[Martinaston]

Now you tell us

[keri-WMS]

Now you tell us

Yeah well....I learned to keep my gob shut the hard way!!!

I once suggested to someone who was in the middle of fitting a Toyota V6 to a Mk1 MR2 (common-ish swap) that the Lexus V8 must fit the transverse Mk2 Turbo box as both the V8 and V6 are used in the same Supra inline gearboxes in drag racing - and what did he think?

Needless to say he publicly announced that he was abandoning his V6 project to try a V8 and is now WELL known as "the man" for being the world's first person to try and build a Lexus-V8 Mk1 MR2!

I'm not bitter (well I am, but actually he's a perfectly ok bloke so it's all good).... and I can still go one better on him anyway (details are classified) but you see my point.

I also wanted to give test-pilot-Gareth his chance to risk his life again for the cause, his first WMS kit has gone to a new home in readiness for "stage 2"...

[Martinaston]

I'm just wondering how far people have got with there own conversions and may be past the point of no return when they could have just bought yours.

Fancy knocking up some carrier bracket for the 288mm audi discs ?

[keri-WMS]

I'm just wondering how far people have got with there own conversions and may be past the point of no return when they could have just bought yours.

Fancy knocking up some carrier bracket for the 288mm audi discs ?

I can see your point, but imagine if I said:

"Now listen good E30 people, stop being creative and messing about with brakes - I shall sell you everything you need!"

I suspect I'd get told where to go in no uncertain terms!!!!!! Plus there are no brackets done yet, or any testing, so it's not really a full solution. I've wasted hundreds and hundreds on dead-end prototypes and buying what turn out to be useless "potential" discs for the E30 as well, my name would be mud if I had let other people join in on the scale I do by keeping everyone informed of my progress.

As for the 288mm discs, there's no real advantage over 280mm G60 to be honest...

[Martinaston]

There is when you've already bought them

[Niggy]

Bought a Hreg C2.7 Tourer bout year ago so i could rob its engine for race car.
It has large brake's on it, must be 280/288ish useing standard caliper. Now the disks have got a bit hot and need replaceing, but every body ive spoke too dont know what they are off. The mounting bracket's are too well made too be one off's must be a propa kit of old
Open too offer's £ can be seen in Chingford or Braintree

[jmc330i]

Bought a Hreg C2.7 Tourer bout year ago so i could rob its engine for race car.
It has large brake's on it, must be 280/288ish useing standard caliper. Now the disks have got a bit hot and need replaceing, but every body ive spoke too dont know what they are off. The mounting bracket's are too well made too be one off's must be a propa kit of old

Wouldnt be the 296mm Alpina kit? Used Merc calipers (that look very much like the E30 ones but possibly a bit bigger) and a proper carrier, not a spacer. Discs are still available apparently, but bloody expensive. And they need a 16" wheel.

[gareth]

send the details to keri as afaik he has an alternative to the genuine alpina disks, it that's what they are...

[keri-WMS]

Bought a Hreg C2.7 Tourer bout year ago so i could rob its engine for race car.
It has large brake's on it, must be 280/288ish useing standard caliper. Now the disks have got a bit hot and need replaceing, but every body ive spoke too dont know what they are off. The mounting bracket's are too well made too be one off's must be a propa kit of old
Open too offer's £ can be seen in Chingford or Braintree

Yup, chuck me some photos....

If they are indeed 296mm Alpina (Merc sliding calipers on Alpina-made custom carriers as far as I know) I can supply repro discs, or of course you can just sell the calipers here or ebay, they are worth a lot to the genuine 'pina crowd (as are old discs if skimmed / ok).

[Andy335Touring]

You lot are getting very "warm" to the new disc I've been prototyping E30 kits with on the quiet!!! So I better own up now.

I can supply Pug based 34.2mm "high" (E30 OEM is 35mm high/offset) 302mm x 26mm discs with the E30 4x100mm pcd added for £55.11+vat / pair - READY TO FIT. I can even do them grooved, beats a certain 25mm thick needs-machining Audi disc methinks....

So there it is, you know my dirty secret before it became a WMS brake kit!!!

16" wheels ??

[Niggy]

Put a tape across them last night 285mm X 20mm ish so sadly not Alpina disk's and the calipers are just 325.
I would show photo's if i new how
Im seeing Ant in a few day's, ill probaly leave the kit with him so he could get say Red dot too copy it and make a few £Â£Ã‚£

[jmc330i]

I would show photo's if i new how

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ic&t=24039

[Niggy]

Thanks mate ill have a read

[keri-WMS]

You lot are getting very "warm" to the new disc I've been prototyping E30 kits with on the quiet!!! So I better own up now.

I can supply Pug based 34.2mm "high" (E30 OEM is 35mm high/offset) 302mm x 26mm discs with the E30 4x100mm pcd added for £55.11+vat / pair - READY TO FIT. I can even do them grooved, beats a certain 25mm thick needs-machining Audi disc methinks....

So there it is, you know my dirty secret before it became a WMS brake kit!!!

16" wheels ??

Yup, there ARE some 15" wheels out there that can take 298.5/310mm / 4 pot kits, 15x7 Team Dynamics Race Pro for instance.... (not confirmed with WMS calipers)

http://www.teamdynamicsracing.com/pro-r ... race12.htm

Trouble is they look a little... "Halfords"!

[jmc330i]

Yup, there ARE some 15" wheels out there that can take 298.5/310mm / 4 pot kits, 15x7 Team Dynamics Race Pro for instance.... (not confirmed with WMS calipers)

15" Compomotives can usually take large disc setups as well.

The point of this thread is to keep the cost down by using the original caliper, a disc that will fit without too much hassle and to keep the standard 15" BBS wheels.

[keri-WMS]

15x7 Team Dynamics Race Pro for instance....

15" Compomotives can usually take large disc setups as well.

The point of this thread is to keep the cost down by using the original caliper, a disc that will fit without too much hassle and to keep the standard 15" BBS wheels.

Oops, fair point - I was talking about wheels but missed the specific BBS bit, sorry...

[jmc330i]

15x7 Team Dynamics Race Pro for instance....

15" Compomotives can usually take large disc setups as well.

The point of this thread is to keep the cost down by using the original caliper, a disc that will fit without too much hassle and to keep the standard 15" BBS wheels.

Oops, fair point - I was talking about wheels but missed the specific BBS bit, sorry...

No worries.
From my point of view, Id like to have better brakes on my touring, but as its my run around I dont want to spend big money on 4 pot kits or expensive wheels.


As youre a brake expert, have you got any views on using the 280mm disc with the standard caliper? Will the extra leverage of the bigger disc make it a worthwhile conversion?

[ed325i]

Why dont you do the RX-7 calipers with carrado disc conversion ?

[keri-WMS]

From my point of view, Id like to have better brakes on my touring, but as its my run around I dont want to spend big money on 4 pot kits or expensive wheels.

As youre a brake expert, have you got any views on using the 280mm disc with the standard caliper? Will the extra leverage of the bigger disc make it a worthwhile conversion?

Right then!

Bigger discs improve things in two main ways (assuming all other factor remain):

1 - More braking torque for a given line pressure due to the increased effective radius (more leverage!).

2 - Better cooling and resistance to fade through overheating pads* as the larger disc can absorb more energy before it gets hot as more disc = more mass = more THERMAL mass. Think boiling a pan with 3mm of water V 50mm of water!

* the second type of brake fade is when the pads get hot and boil the fluid ("soft pedal" fade), this can be reduced by running better grades of brake fluid.

Also once fluid has boiled ONCE it's f-ked. It can have a boiling point of say 300deg, boil it once and it will boil next time at 240deg for argument's sake. (not actual figures, don't have them to hand!)

[jmc330i]

Why dont you do the RX-7 calipers with carrado disc conversion ?

That involves buying calipers, the idea of using the standard E30 caliper is that it keeps the cost down.
Ive read on a couple of the US forums about the RX7 4pot conversion and it does seem a good choice. But, although they say it will fit under 15" wheels, Ive not seen any fitted under the 15" BBS, they all seem to be running aftermarket 15"s. When the question about the BBS wheel pops up, nobody answers.

Someone mentioned using Vauxhall stuff. I have heard of this from a couple people, but Im not sure of the 'hub' dimensions compared to the E30. Im fairly sure that the only Vx discs that will be of any interest to those who want to keep the 15" BBS will be 288mm from the Vectra, but they are only 5 stud and I think thicker than 22mm.

If using the E30 calipers with the VW disc works, then the upgrade could be done when someone needs to renew their brakes - just buy the modded VW discs, pads for the E30 and the bracket to mount the caliper. Nice and simple and shouldnt cost the earth.

[oldie323]

Just a wee thought,but im sure that i read sumwhere that m3's used e28 calipers,and they run 280mm discs!am gona have a look at the weekend,and let u all know how i get on!

[DaveD]

Why dont you do the RX-7 calipers with carrado disc conversion ?

That involves buying calipers, the idea of using the standard E30 caliper is that it keeps the cost down.
Ive read on a couple of the US forums about the RX7 4pot conversion and it does seem a good choice. But, although they say it will fit under 15" wheels, Ive not seen any fitted under the 15" BBS, they all seem to be running aftermarket 15"s. When the question about the BBS wheel pops up, nobody answers.

Someone mentioned using Vauxhall stuff. I have heard of this from a couple people, but Im not sure of the 'hub' dimensions compared to the E30. Im fairly sure that the only Vx discs that will be of any interest to those who want to keep the 15" BBS will be 288mm from the Vectra, but they are only 5 stud and I think thicker than 22mm.

If using the E30 calipers with the VW disc works, then the upgrade could be done when someone needs to renew their brakes - just buy the modded VW discs, pads for the E30 and the bracket to mount the caliper. Nice and simple and shouldnt cost the earth.

We (me and Beardymat) tried it and you can't..we would've if we could've