e30's vs civics

[Rosc0PColtrane]

but in essence you are varying the torque applied as such

Not really, you're ending the punches finishing point, from the front of the target to the back of it.

[Simon13]

oh i give up!

[Rosc0PColtrane]

hahaha!!!

Have you noticed on Top Gear, torque confuses them too?

They refer to it as 'torques' and shrug their shoulders. No-one really understands it!!!

[reggid]

its so simple though

[maxfield]

I was seriously expecting more from it 240 hp 6 gears and 1250kg

My old boss had one , Over rated revving piece of shite , He couldnt lose my maestro turbo and I was pushing him

Do you seriously believe that the S2000 which has one of the best engines made in a long time is an over revving piece of shite?

Comedy comment

It is definatly a great engine!

[munky30]

If both cars were trying to pull the wall down, the one with more torque would find it easier.

[JohnnyThunders]

I can torque a ps2 pad until it snaps. Owned.

[munky30]

yes but I can throw one at a wall so hard it smashes. pwn3d.

[Steve-E30]

Steve e30 is a hero, imagine putting your hands up to having owned a maestro turbo !

Very tunable car and a wolf in sheeps clothing
The hondas are good engines dont get me wrong but the arse was revved out of the s2000 to get it to perform and wasnt that impressive if a old mg maestrao turbo could push it up the road
He didnt keep it long after that btw

[northloop]

Steve e30 is a hero, imagine putting your hands up to having owned a maestro turbo !

Very tunable car and a wolf in sheeps clothing
The hondas are good engines dont get me wrong but the arse was revved out of the s2000 to get it to perform and wasnt that impressive if a old mg maestrao turbo could push it up the road
He didnt keep it long after that btw

From memory a Meastro turbo got to 60 in under 7 seconds and was a pretty quick bit of kit. A good one would hassle alot on the road ....... however the likelyhood would always be that it would torque steer you into a field or some such thing.

The S2000 is great bit of kit in the right hands

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Those Messtro turbos out pulled an equivalent aged 911 to 60 mph. Although the messtro would leave half the car in it's wake!

[jetto]

Just to add a bit of what I've learnt doing both an automotive engineering degree and a motorsport engineering masters degree to clear up what torque and power are.

A power curve is an indicator of engine performance. Engine power at high engine speeds correlates with a vehicles potential for maximum speed.

Engine torque correlates to the vehicles driveability.

Power and torque are only useful when quoted with the engine speed that the figures occur at.

The 2 are related by the equation Torque (in Nm) = Power (in watts) / 2 x Pi x N where N is the number of revolutions of the crankshaft per second.

2 x Pi x N = the angular velocity of the engines rotation

I could go into how power is worked out from relations between fuel conversion efficiencies, heating values of fuel and fuel air ratios etc but I'll be here all night!

And turbo charging is a minefield of stuff I don't want to go into either, but I just wanted to give you the governing equation that relates torque and power

Cheers,
Oli

[jonb]

My experience in the cars......me and demlot had our cars on the rollers a while ago, his S14 did 200bhp and 160lbs. My alpina 2.7 did 190bhp and 192lbs. Whilst on a dual carriage way at legal speeds! we dropped into the same gear and went for it. Now you would think the 2.7 would have the grunt to pull on it having an extra 32lbs alot further down the rev range. Nope Chibsters pulled away from me and the extra bhp showed.

Simian

I have another experience of this.

Remember coombe day. Mine and oz"s car had the same 225bhp on the dyno.

My turd had much more torque though(282ft/lb"s). We couldnt have a play on the track, but we did have a race on the way to the coombe.

My car was about 10 car lengths in front by the time we were at 100mph. Now before oz gets in a pisser let me state that his car is fucking rapid. Probably one of the fastest e30"s ive been in.

Thats my comparison to yours i guess.

The point is that my car makes 225bhp quicker than oz"s because of the higher torque.

[oguz327]

My experience in the cars......me and demlot had our cars on the rollers a while ago, his S14 did 200bhp and 160lbs. My alpina 2.7 did 190bhp and 192lbs. Whilst on a dual carriage way at legal speeds! we dropped into the same gear and went for it. Now you would think the 2.7 would have the grunt to pull on it having an extra 32lbs alot further down the rev range. Nope Chibsters pulled away from me and the extra bhp showed.

Simian

I have another experience of this.

Remember coombe day. Mine and oz"s car had the same 225bhp on the dyno.

My turd had much more torque though(282ft/lb"s). We couldnt have a play on the track, but we did have a race on the way to the coombe.

My car was about 10 car lengths in front by the time we were at 100mph. Now before oz gets in a pisser let me state that his car is ******* rapid. Probably one of the fastest e30"s ive been in.

Thats my comparison to yours i guess.

The point is that my car makes 225bhp quicker than oz"s because of the higher torque.

Jon you penis, what a load of bull

10 car car lenghths and then you woke up

[jonb]

Ok oz. How far in front then?

[oguz327]

Only a touch, you kept cheating, getting your car on boost then booting it.
Of coarse you are going to pull away, mines NA init brov

Didnt see you catching me on track either, i was only 2 cars in front.

Change your sig pic now please, misleading info

[Theo]

Rapist of Spark Plugs has a nice ring to it eh Jon?

[fuzzy]

Only a touch, you kept cheating, getting your car on boost then booting it.
Of coarse you are going to pull away, mines NA init brov

thats not cheating.thats using what youve got to its best

[oguz327]

I was following Jon at the time, if it would have been a drag race i recon it would have been even's.

[maxfield]

Rapist of Spark Plugs has a nice ring to it eh Jon?

[jonb]

No way bruv.

You came off that roundabout. On the cam, right up my arse, i then booted it from about 2.5k rpm. My car was pulling when i changed gear, 10 car lengths sounds worse than it is though.

Ive not said your car is slow oz.

Whens the next pod meet?

[Jon_Bmw]

Why does my car weigh so much

I need a 4000rpm launch to stop it bogging down, but f**k does it go then. Only done that once, I can't be paying out £500 to change the clutch every 10,000miles

Torque means you don't have to change gear all the time, rather than pissing about at 50mph trying to select second, a torquey car can just let rip in third.

[oguz327]

No way bruv.

You came off that roundabout. On the cam, right up my arse, i then booted it from about 2.5k rpm. My car was pulling when i changed gear, 10 car lengths sounds worse than it is though.

Ive not said your car is slow oz.

Whens the next pod meet?

I remember that differently Jon, you were pulling away but not 10 car lengths!

By the time we do a pod meet you will probably have modded yours anyway or sorted out the issues you had so we will never know for sure

Bottom line Jon, mine is a more powerful car atm, end of

[jonb]

A?

Ive fixed the 21, its fine now, but still has slight oil leak. Dont get cocky or i will get da 850 out.

[kam-325i]

And i still cant tell who's got the biggest willy...............

[jonb]

pm sent....

[Simon13]

pm sent....

to confirm pecker sizes?

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Just to add a bit of what I've learnt doing both an automotive engineering degree and a motorsport engineering masters degree to clear up what torque and power are.

A power curve is an indicator of engine performance. Engine power at high engine speeds correlates with a vehicles potential for maximum speed.

Engine torque correlates to the vehicles driveability.

Power and torque are only useful when quoted with the engine speed that the figures occur at.

The 2 are related by the equation Torque (in Nm) = Power (in watts) / 2 x Pi x N where N is the number of revolutions of the crankshaft per second.

2 x Pi x N = the angular velocity of the engines rotation

I could go into how power is worked out from relations between fuel conversion efficiencies, heating values of fuel and fuel air ratios etc but I'll be here all night!

And turbo charging is a minefield of stuff I don't want to go into either, but I just wanted to give you the governing equation that relates torque and power

Cheers,
Oli

Great, so now we have an equation on how to express torque, but stil no explanation as to what it is!!!

[BreadBin]

Ladies express breast milk don't they??

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Ladies express breast milk don't they??

boobies?

[BreadBin]

Boobies FTW
IMO

[reggid]

Just to add a bit of what I've learnt doing both an automotive engineering degree and a motorsport engineering masters degree to clear up what torque and power are.

A power curve is an indicator of engine performance. Engine power at high engine speeds correlates with a vehicles potential for maximum speed.

Engine torque correlates to the vehicles driveability.

Power and torque are only useful when quoted with the engine speed that the figures occur at.

The 2 are related by the equation Torque (in Nm) = Power (in watts) / 2 x Pi x N where N is the number of revolutions of the crankshaft per second.

2 x Pi x N = the angular velocity of the engines rotation

I could go into how power is worked out from relations between fuel conversion efficiencies, heating values of fuel and fuel air ratios etc but I'll be here all night!

And turbo charging is a minefield of stuff I don't want to go into either, but I just wanted to give you the governing equation that relates torque and power

Cheers,
Oli

Great, so now we have an equation on how to express torque, but stil no explanation as to what it is!!!

in as simple terms as possible torque is the twisting force on the crankshaft and the power is the speed which that twisting force acts.

So it makes sense that its good to have alot of twisting force on the crankshaft but you want it to be still twisting hard at high speed (so you can accelerate when travelling at high speeds) which is why power is important.

Consider the following two scenarios
1)You can have alot of twist with a slow revving engine
2)or not much twisting force but at very high engine speeds

and these two scenarios do the same job by the time the power and torque is delivered to the wheels via gearbox and diff.

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Aaahhh so torque is a representation of the ability to twis the crank under an adverse load??

And why civic type r's fall flat on hills!!!

[reggid]

Aaahhh so torque is a representation of the ability to twis the crank under an adverse load??

And why civic type r's fall flat on hills!!!

It gets more difficult becasue the torque at the crank gets multiplied by the diff and gear box which is why torque is a very misleading figure to the non technically inclined.
Everyone will agree that if traction is not an issue the car will accelerate faster in 1st gear than in 2nd gear but why is this the case when the engine makes the same crank power and crank torque irrespective of the gear being used. The reason is torque multiplication from gearing.
This multiplication allows low torque high revving cars to perform well because they can use extra gear multiplication and can be in a gear that puts them in the meaty part of the power curve.

A civic doesn't go up hills that well because its torque at low speed is poor but if you have revs and are in the right gear it should go equally as well as a car of the same power and weight.

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Cool, cheers!!!