e30's vs civics

[e30Alex]

hey everyone, sorry about the misleading thread. Basicly I work with this kid who absolutly cremes of his 1million trillion bhp civic turbo. He dosnt seem to understand when I inform him that civics are poo, front wheel drive and have no charicter whatsoever. Does anyone else have anoying experiences like this??Alex

[JohnnyThunders]

Yep the people i work with think my Bmws are old sheds. They dig Japcrap.

[320Touring]

japcrap has iots advantages..

a 10 yr old civic can be had for the same price as a decent 316i, insurance is low, build quality is reasonable and for FWD they handle ok..

Its a car, and does a job.

e30 is a way of life

[MONSPORT42]

This is confession time: I own a Civic as well as the Sport 2.7. The little Jap number is a great workhorse car quiet, smooth (it's an auto) and has never had anything go wrong. It poodles along on the motorway at above limit speeds and id thoroughly boring. A fast car it ain't.. I leave driving it to my wife, she can make it feel very unsafe at 30mph! Give me the Sport anyday, it's in a different league. Mind you I am biased - I've driven E30s since 1985 and an E21 before that.

[Rosc0PColtrane]

There was an interesting thread on here a while back comparing power to weight ratios of shitvic type r's and 325i's.

The type R, although alledgedly lightened is still quite a weighty car. To get an equivalent 325i to the smape power to weight ratio, a figure of 200bhp was concluded. Ok The type R can handle well, but a 325i can be made to vastly improve its handling characteristics with some simple mods.

You also have to wonder, in a head to head in this scenario, what benefit the greater level of torque of the BM would have?

If you took the civic type r (top of range) against e30 m3 evo (top of range), I'd be quietly confident of seeing the civic have it's arse handed to it.

As for older rice burning granny shopping trolleys from the land of the rising sun, they're ok. Not great. Ok. Nothing that's going to give you too much hassle in standard guise. But then any car can be made to go well with enough shekels thrown at it!

Thing is, one people have their heads up their arses about their cars, be they e30 owners or shitvic owners, it would be like trying to change Hitlers mind and convince him gassing millions of Jews was wrong.

Just leave the scrote to it. Everyone knows e30's are the best cars evAr!!!

[fuzzy]

here we go again with this but having raced my mates type r several times with 80 bhp less than my car there is surprisingly little in it(although mine does win). and id reckon an e30 m3 would have its arse handed to it against a type r. has your mates civic had an aftermarket turbo fitted as i didnt know any have been turbo'd ,if so i would imagine it will be quite a handy weapon.the type r doesnt handle well at high speed and is very twitchy and unstable in my and my mates opinion .

[m3ben05]

and id reckon an e30 m3 would have its arse handed to it against a type r

Not sure how you come to that conclusion, iv seen off every type R thats ever tried to race me. They are fairly decent cars though, its just a shame most of them are driven by chavs!

[Simon13]

i've seen a "normal" E30 with an S14 215bhp engine see off a type R in a straight line and through the corners, it was very close though

fuzzy your car is obviously not that fast!

I know of a certain J plate civic 1.6 v-tec that 911's and lotus elises cannot keep with, round a certain german circut. Even the old j plate civics have double wishbone suspension all round and can be made to handle very well indeed

[fuzzy]

="Simon13"fuzzy your car is obviously not that fast!

your right , my car isnt that fast.i think you need 350bhp+ at least to have a really fast car.a torquey n/a engine would be far better as it has low down grunt and will pull straight away whereas ive got turbo lag and the type r has to be at over 6000rpm to have anything . still quite capable though

[Simon13]

sod the torque it's all about bhp!

[E3OBM]

the best civics are the ee9 and ee8 crx, 90-91 vtecs, i have had more then enough of these and a few that i had have left the new type r. the only type r that used to do me is the integras and the civic ek9 type r, very rare cars, only a 1.6 type r, 185bhp but trust me they fly.

i know a few people with vtec turbos, and they are very fast, civic turbo in bham pushing around 350 bhp leaves the evos, scoobys pulsars etc for joke, take of its slow to move of as its to busy spinning but when it grips boy does that leave all the others for fun.

[Steve-E30]

Interesting as a civic type r had a play with me and i owned his asre on a open motorway
Had a go against my mates honda jordan civic which had a few modifications and beat him
Jordans are only a 1.6 but give them there due they are fast

[1993E30]

I used to work for Honda, up until 2 years ago. I would go as far to say I'd only ever have BMW's and Honda's. Honda make fantastic cars, and are fanatical about engineering and making things 'work' Civic's and indeed the S2000 may lack a little character - but that is down to personal opinion, but what ever the opinion, no one can deny the fact that they are a superb car with many qualities. My opinion is that Honda's are better left un-molested and standard the same as my E30!

'93 Lux Cab

[Rosc0PColtrane]

sod the torque it's all about bhp!

Thought that was the type r's down fall, low torque?

Thought the torque was what counted?

[fuzzy]

sod the torque it's all about bhp!

Thought that was the type r's down fall, low torque?

Thought the torque was what counted?

peoe say its the torque that accelerates you and the bhp gives you your top end?..i dont understand it though ,it means nothing to me .

[Rosc0PColtrane]

I don't fully understand it either. I understand the type are makes a lot of noise and is quick, get it near a hill and it dies off. It's like bhp gives it the ability to be quick and torque is the muscle to shift the lump of metal.

[kam-325i]

BHP is a product of TORQUE.

[fuzzy]

BHP is a product of TORQUE.

so is there an equation? 'x' amount bhp = 1 lbf torque as a rough guide?

[Jon_Bmw]

Oh dear the BHP v Torque debate. If someone offered you a car that could do 9k rpm rather than 6k and have the same torque figures, go with the 9k rpm one

[kam-325i]

BHP is a product of TORQUE.

so is there an equation? 'x' amount bhp = 1 lbf torque as a rough guide?

Yeah.....

Its along the lines of Torque / 5252.......

If you look on a dyno print out, where Bhp and Torque are on the same scale, The Torque and Bhp lines will always cross at 5252Rpm.

Found it

Horsepower = torque x rpm / 5252

[fuzzy]

i have a dyno run graph with bhp but no torque line.although the graph isnt handy im sure it was 282 bhp at 5130rpm .can my torque be worked out with this equation?
282= 'x' x 5130 divide by 5252?

[kam-325i]

from that info, you would have 288.7Lbft @ 5130rpm

282 divide by Rpm times 5252

[fuzzy]

from that info, you would have 288.7Lbft @ 5130rpm

282 divide by Rpm times 5252

quality mate. i shall add that to my sig

[northloop]

where is davetouring when you need him. He seems to pedal a civic reasonably well

[oakey]

torque is to twisting, what load is to pulling.
^useful "saying"^

[Rosc0PColtrane]

So why is the civic type r described as low on torque?

Specification - Honda Civic 2.0 i-VTEC Type R 3door
Transmission - 6 Speed Manual Gearbox
Drive - Front Wheel Drive
Engine Capacity - 1998 cc
Cylinders - 4
Power - 200/7400 bhp/rpm
Torque 145/5900 lb/ft
Emissions Class - EU3
Maximum Speed -146 mph
0 - 62 mph - 6.6 seconds


Escort Cossie

Engine
Type: YBT
Capacity: 1993cc
Bore/stroke: 90.82mm x 76.95mm
Compression ratio: 8:1
Max power: 227 bhp @ 6250 rpm
Max torque: 220 lbf.ft @ 3500 rpm
Cylinders: four, in-line
Cylinder head: alloy

Is that a lot of difference? I know it's a turbo but....


Mondeo ST220: Specifications
Engine: Duratec 3.0 V6, quad-cam, 24-valve
Max power: 220 bhp at 6000 rpm
Max torque: 275 Nm (203 lb ft) at 4750 rpm
Max speed: 150 mph
0-60 mph acceleration: 7 seconds

Suppose the clio is close, less bhp but more torque?

Clio Renaultsport 182 Cup 3dr

Series: Clio

Engine Type: 2.0

Manufacturer / Model: Renault Clio

Release Date: 2005

On The Road Car Price: 13900 GBP

Body Style: Hatchback

Genre: Sports Car

Driven Wheels: Front (FWD)

Transmission type: 5 Speed Manual Gearbox

Engine Size (cc): 1998 cc

Cylinders: 4

Power (bhp/rpm): 182@6500 bhp/rpm

Power (bhp): 182 bhp

Torque: 148@5250 lb/ft

Maximum Speed (mph): 139 mph

Acceleration (0 - 62 mph): 6.9 seconds

[maxfield]

I bet dave in his civic will kill most modified 2.7s on the zone round a track

[nzracer]

Hondas rock, I had a 2.2 vtec Prelude in NZ that was so quick.

Im not to keen on the type R that you guys are on about, it was built in the uk iirc and the uk Hondas dont seem as good as the Jap ones.

Put a turbo on even a 1.6 vtec and you will have one very very fast car esp on the track!

like for like I do think the type R driven right will eat 325i's on the open(closed of corse ) road, but as I say thats driven right as we all know its the driver that makes the most of the car

[Rosc0PColtrane]

Yeah true! Although we're not talking about track, we're talking about torque and bhp!!!

[Frenchy]

Typer aRse are fookin ugly end of! and the rest of the japanese things that run around are full of cheap horrible plastic.

Never had a jap never will!!!

[Jon_Bmw]

Typer aRse are fookin ugly end of! and the rest of the japanese things that run around are full of cheap horrible plastic.

Never had a jap never will!!!

Try one then come back. Jap cars are easy to tune, cheap, don't rust, can handle very well. So easy to write stuff off without trying it but annoyingly difficult once you've had a go.

[nzracer]

Yeah true! Although we're not talking about track, we're talking about torque and bhp!!!

not really as the title says E30's vs civics I was taking that as all aspects, correct me if im wrong?

But on the torque and bhp front, rotarys have f@#k all torque but rev loads and are rapid... food for thought maybe

[maxfield]

Rotarys where's rotarys come into this

[kam-325i]

Simple way to demo the Torque Vs Bhp Question.

325i and the civic. both standing start, But revs of either engine not to go above 1500rpm, ie pull away with engine at 1500rpm......No dumping the clutch at 4000 rpm......

[nzracer]

Rotarys where's rotarys come into this

slightly off topic, but as blatantarrogance was talking about torque and bhp I thought id share this info



blatantarrogance wrote:
Yeah true! Although we're not talking about track, we're talking about torque and bhp!!!