upgrading my 320i - recommendations please!

[spp320i]

Hi all,

I've got a 1990 320i, body is in good enough condition, and I want more power! Nothing as nuts as some have attempted, and with a pretty tight budget, what does everyone recommend?

I think all the bushes etc could do with replacing, as it is a bit shaky on the motorway, and I may as well replace the wiring too, it's a bit birds nest and has a few niggles!! I figure if i'm going to take the engine out, I might as well do as much as possible!

So I've been thinking of getting a 325i lump, with a sport gearbox and diff. I've seen that people can stick a different head on and have a 327i, is this true, and what exactly is involved in this? This sounds like a good option to me, as it's not a major mechanical job, and should all slot in place nicely

So who can tell me how easy this might be and what parts I'd need? How much money am i looking at to carry this out? And what sort of power gains can i realistically expect?

Cheers all, I await the flood of crazy ideas!!

[Theo]

Problem with using the 320i as a base car is that they need alot of upgrading to get to 325i standard.

You will, to do a proper job at least, want to change the rear axle using a 325i diff, and disc brakes rather than the drum wrongness your 320i is likely to have. You will also want to change to the thicker 2.5 anti roll bars, and the bigger front struts.

Once this is done then it's a decent foundation for a 2.5/2.7/3.5 etc etc.

To cut a long story short - buy a 325i, either a rotten one with good mechanicals and put all the above on your car. Or buy a good one and sell your 320i.

Just my opinion of course, but financially at least - this is the most logical way to look at things.

[Jhonno]

Problem with using the 320i as a base car is that they need alot of upgrading to get to 325i standard.

You will, to do a proper job at least, want to change the ream axle using a 325i diff, and disc brakes rather than the drum wrongness your 320i is likely to have. You will also want to change to the thicker 2.5 anti roll bars, and the bigger front struts.

Once this is done then it's a decent foundation for a 2.5/2.7/3.5 etc etc.

To cut a long story short - buy a 325i, either a rotten one with good mechanicals and put all the above on your car. Or buy a good one and sell your 320i.

Just my opinion of course, but financially at least - this is the most logical way to look at things.

+1

[spp320i]

Sound advice Theo325, thanks.

Didn't quite realise so much would need upgrading - struts and axle! Damn

Next question then is where the hell do i get a rotten 325i

Not sure mine would be worth that much, it's pretty tatty and 185k on it. I'd love to beef it up a bit and bring it up to scratch as it should be!

Any more?!

[Theo]

rotten 325's can be found all over, there's a tech 1 sport for sale at the moment (on this forum somewhere) for 500 sheets - that's got everything you need, lsd and sport gearbox included.

[spp320i]

any idea where i might find this sport? i'll have a search, but for my purposes it's crucial the engine's in good nick. If it's a goodun then I'll go for it i think.

So what's involved with making this into a 327i? Just getting a different head? And which 325i is the best engine, early or late? I hear one has a higher compression ratio, does this make a difference?

Thanks.

[Theo]

Here's the link - sadly it seems you are too late though

http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... ic&t=66249

Fear not though, there are plenty of old dogs like this available - i bought 2 last year, just keep an eye out and be prepared to act quickly.

re the 2.7 - sadly it's much more than changing the head. You need a 2.7 crank from either a 525e/325e or a 324td (£Â£Ã‚£) so you will find yourself doing a comprehensive rebuild which cost way more than people seem to appreciate. You will also need the block tinkered with by a machine shop, and then you will find you need an adjustable cam pulley to get teh timing right bla bla bla....

2.7 are great, but they aren't cheap DIY. I went the route of the 3.5 M30 engine instead...

[Speedtouch]

Early 325i engine (with 256E block marking) is high compression, knocks out 171bhp. Later (89>) 256K block is low compression and only puts out around 160bhp in standard form.

[spp320i]

appreciate the advice Theo325, although that engine has 171k, bit high for my liking. I'll certainly be keeping my eyes open.

Gutted the 2.7 conversion is so involved, had hoped for a nice simple option, but didnt realise the crank had to be changed over.

I've seen a few threads where people have done the M30 3.5, but it's a pretty advanced task isn't it? Not sure I'm up to that!

What mods can be done to the 325 then to get it to perform to its best?

320iSE - thanks for the info, just what i was after. Now i just need to find an early 325i that's rotten!

hmmmm......

[ed325i]

Gutted the 2.7 conversion is so involved, had hoped for a nice simple option, but didnt realise the crank had to be changed over.

Just build a 2.8

[toby]

Start with a budget and go from there...

How much do you want to spend?

[ed325i]

You could fit the 2.5 inlet and TB for a start.
Then a chip.

[spp320i]

Ed325i - what's involved with building a 2.8? Am open to suggestions! I hear there's not much point installing a 2.5 inlet and TB, would rather go the whole hog and drop in a 2.5 engine! Had enough of my 2.0

Toby - good question! I don't want to spend too much, but want to know what my options would be for relatively cheap upgrades - couldn't spend more than a grand (if I can get away without telling the mrs)!

Any more suggestions/advice?

[spp320i]

Another thought, can a newer 328i engine be dropped in? Anyone know how easy this plugs in?!

Anyone else with any suggestions??!!

[dom-1984-320i]

I think am going to keep mine a 2.0L at this rate there wont be many left!!!!

[spp320i]

Good point - 320's will probably be rare once I decide what I'm going to do! As Tim Allen says - MORE POWER!!

[dom-1984-320i]

i was thinkin of dropping a 3.5 in mine over the winter but have changed my mind, am gonna keep it as is then just change the whole car for an e30 with more power at a later date.

[pnd]

cheapest is just to buy a 325 a reasonable one can be had for a grand if you are carefulwhat you buy and not too picky about unimportant shit like number of dooors/trim level all the engine swap options are costly and or full of pitfalls.

[spp320i]

the 3.5 option does sound tempting, but I understand you have to beef up the 320i a lot to get it to handle the power, and a bit of "engineering" to get the engine in place right.

pnd - I don't mind about number of doors and trim level, but not sure I could get good bodywork and relatively low mileage for a grand. I'd like to drop something in mine, would be less costly to put in a 2.5 and the necessary extras wouldn't it?

Cheers

[dom-1984-320i]

the 3.5 option does sound tempting, but I understand you have to beef up the 320i a lot to get it to handle the power, and a bit of "engineering" to get the engine in place right.

Thats why am not gonna mess with mine, leave all that till i get my next e30.

[spp320i]

Thats why am not gonna mess with mine, leave all that till i get my next e30.

Very good point, but if I can find a rust bucket with good mechanicals, could swap all the necessary parts onto mine I think.

Just not that easy to find at the moment! Anyone know any decent scrap yards round SE London?? Think i need to start searching.

Still interested to hear more opinions.... How about this 328 option? What else could be dropped in there?

[ed325i]

Ed325i - what's involved with building a 2.8?

Have alook here >> http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... highlight=

[spp320i]

Thanks ed, looks like it may be a bit complex to me, don't really want to get stuck into full engine rebuild, at least not without a complete walk through guide! I have concerns about changing crank and possible skimming too.

Can a newer 328i engine be dropped in? Anyone? How about putting in a 3.0 from something? the 3.5 needs quite a lot of work to fit it in right??

There must be so many options, I just want to find the easiest one!!!!

[ed325i]

The 3.5 is easyer then the 328 engine swap.
The 328 engine does fit and so does the 3.0 m3 engine it depends how much you want to spend.

[spp320i]

cheers ed, so the 3.5 is the easiest swap? I need to figure out what is going to cause me the least trouble, then start looking at costs. There's no point me finding a cheap option if it's too difficult for me to do! Not sure if my knuckles can take it!

Wonder if anyone's already done a 327 and has it sitting on a pallet for me? That should be a straight switch for my 2.0 right? Is it that tricky to drop in a newer 2.8?

Thanks for all the advice, I knew this was the ONLY place to start my research!

[ed325i]

Here >> http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... hlight=m52

[spp320i]

that involves VANOS, is that right? Not sure I should get into that! How's an M50 2.5 for a fit? Looks like the M52 may be a bit complex?

Any thoughts?

[ed325i]

Here >> http://www.e30zone.net/modules.php?name ... hlight=m50

[spp320i]

looks like that's a no go for me too! I don't want to do any welding, haven't got access to any of the necessary equipment for that, and I'm not even going to try fabricating parts!

Appreciate all the advice ed, very grateful. I think I may just have to go down the route of getting a 2.5 to drop in with a sport gearbox and diff, plus upgrade suspension, roll bars and brakes. That's probably about all I can manage to be honest, and I don't want to take on a project I can't do, or that will take me years to finish!

How can I make sure I get the best out of a 2.5, BBTB and a chip?

Thanks again - e30zone is my bible!

Wish there was a simple option though

[ed325i]

How can I make sure I get the best out of a 2.5, BBTB and a chip?

Cam, 6 branch ....

[spp320i]

Cam, 6 branch ....

This is surely going to be the route I need to go down, very grateful for all your advice ed, you've clearly done one or two conversions yourself I take it?!

Excellent advice, and shouldn't be too costly to do I'd hope! Is the cam a difficult job? Mind you, while the engine's out, that's the best time to do the cam I suppose! Is it complicated?

[toby]

If you have £1000 to spend there are several choices and questions.

Sell your 320i and buy a 325i. This would be, by far, the easiest option.

Put a 325i engine in and upgrade your 320i's exhaust, suspension, brakes and engine electricals to 325i spec - but why bother when it's easier and cheaper to buy a complete 325i even if you do the work yourself?

Do you want the money you spend to be simply bolt on upgrades or to include engine maintenance/upgrades - e.g. a new high lift cam shaft or a 2.7 rebuild?

You could build a 327 by adding a crankshaft and boring out the 320i block with larger pistons and a it needs a new cam - but this is more like £3000 than £1000 and this is the ultimate rebuild. If you built it all yourself by replacing your engine with the complete bottom end of a 525e (lots of details of the conversion in this section) it would be a lot cheaper but it reqires a fair degree of skill, parts and equipment.

£1000 + sale of 320i = 325i and then add a performance chip and some nice suspension to that.

These are merely suggestions but having owned a 320i and a 325i I have to say unless your 320 is mint, sell it.

[spp320i]

Hi Toby, thanks for the advice

The question is what sort of money am i going to get a decent 325i for? And I'd like to put the sport gearbox and diff on to make the most of it.

The other side of it is that I don't know how much money my 320i would be worth, it's not mint, exterior in fairly good condition, interior and dash pretty tatty at the moment, and the odd electrical issue.

Do you want the money you spend to be simply bolt on upgrades or to include engine maintenance/upgrades

I don't know what I want but I don't have £3000!!! I want to make the most out of what little cash I could spend on this. Don't think I'm up to a rebuild, but interested in the idea of a bottom end of a 525e, what's involved and how much could this cost?

I appreciate your suggestions, very welcome indeed, just not sure which way to go at this stage! What would you suggest, just get a 325i?

[toby]

Yes, just buy a 325i

Conversions with a 525e are essentially a rebuild. The costs should be prohibitive to you. You could have costs spiral up when second hand bits needing replacement or attention. Research it by all means to give you an understanding but this kind of project on the cheap is generally suited to a very mechanically minded scrapyard friendly enthusiast. There is risk involved and there are plenty of failed projects on ebay to show that it is gamble if you aren't really clued up.

It's risky enoughy buying a car so I'd suggest you use your £1000 to search out a really good 325i. If you sold the 320 for, what, £350-400 ish and then had a budget for a 325i of £1400 you could find something ok with that. I'd look for an modified original type car. Add a performance chip and stuff later.

Upgrade your car by replacing it. If you want a faster drive then it's the best option you can afford. Explain it away to 'her indoors' under the guise of better fuel economy.

[spp320i]

Thanks again for the advice Toby, I thought this may be the best option, may still consider transplanting the necessary parts into mine, depends if i can sell it or not I guess!

Appreciate the advice on the 525e rebuild, I've read lots on this site about all the various conversions, and the last thing I need is for the costs to get out of control, and whilst I'm fairly mechanically minded, I wouldn't say very!! It makes sense not to take the gamble this time, although I did win about £100 on the Grand National!

I should be able to find a good quality 325i for about £13-1400, and hopefully in good condition too. Maybe upgrade gearbox and diff from a sport at a later date, along with the other mods I plan.

I like the fuel economy argument to the missus, I'm sure I can make her buy that!

Thanks again, now who wants to swap a 320i for a 325i?!!!!!