Insurance payout - repairs nearly there! Opinions please

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Dr Firefly
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Fri May 04, 2007 10:48 pm

New update on stage of repairs at end of thread...

Right, this is the final thread I'm going to start about my insurance saga! Here's a table I've made of all the work I've done on the car, which is backed up by a book full of receipts. Going to show them both to the engineer to prove that the car was being gradually restored mechanically.

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Also cleaned up the car as best as I can this morning, polished, T-cutted, cleaned all the black trim, tyres, windows etc - see what people think. I think it looks like a car that's worth a lot more than £500, especially with that repair work in the tables above

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This is the damaged wheel - it's pushed forwards against the bodywork, with a buckled trailing arm behind it, and damaged mounting points onto the rear axle-carrying cross-member (obviously can't see that lot from this photo)

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So what do you reckon? Is it worth the £850 I need it to be valued at by the insurers so that they write it off and give me enough money to buy it back and spend £600 on the new suspension and bodywork repairs? And it doesn't have any chance of being a cat A or B write-off does it?
Last edited by Dr Firefly on Thu May 31, 2007 6:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Fri May 04, 2007 10:51 pm

I Guess it depends on what is bent. If its purely the suspension components and not any of the places that they touch the shell... I would guess that you'd be OK. If it has twisted the shell then I would walk away. Then again, I'm no expert.
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Dr Firefly
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Fri May 04, 2007 11:13 pm

Yeah I'm desperately hoping that the shell isn't twisted. The guy at the garage who I trust said his "gut feeling" was that it would be fine, and that normally things that are bent are visible, but not always. Reassuring words! The thing is it'll be so hard to walk away when I've put so much time, effort and money, and had so much fun out of this car. I don't have the money to get another one and get it back to this standard, so I've just basically got to fix all this, get it put back together and hope it drives in a straight line.... If not., then it's :violin: :violin: :cry: :cry: :cry: time, and begging for a 316i off one of you guys to swap all my bits over into...
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Dr Firefly
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Sat May 05, 2007 4:45 pm

Bump?
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ed325i
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Sat May 05, 2007 4:56 pm

I should think it has twisted the shell and not worth repairing. It only has to be alittle bit.
I would get another one.
Dr Firefly
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Sat May 05, 2007 5:22 pm

Would I be able to tell if the shell was twisted? Everything still lines up straignt and the doors open and shut fine. All looks fine underneath too, apart from the buckled trailing arm and the linkage where it joins onto the crossmember... Just not sure what to do. My feeling is to take the gamble and hope it's ok, but I'll look a real idiot if that doesn't work out.
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Sat May 05, 2007 5:41 pm

i understand the work gone in but imo, i would get the maximum for the car, buy it back off them for next to nothing, strip it and buy another one.

if done correctly youcould make a bit of cash
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Sat May 05, 2007 5:57 pm

ed325i wrote:I should think it has twisted the shell and not worth repairing. It only has to be alittle bit.
I would get another one.
what do you base this opinion on?

a good sign that all is well with the shell is if all the doors open and shut and line up as before the accident,i would expect the gap on the dogleg (lower part of arch near rear door) might be a little tighter if the wheel hit it with any amount of force but this would come back quite easily.

you tend to find the suspension mounting points on any body shell are a lot stronger than the components they carry.

good work with the clean up,i did the same to a nova of my girlfriends many years ago,was a cat c write off when we bought it and it got twatted again after about a year of running it.gave it the full works and the insurance paid out top dollar.

good luck :D
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Dr Firefly
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Sat May 05, 2007 6:24 pm

Cheers for the nice words Beardymat - noticed you mentioned your own bodyshop in your sig. I'm qualifying as a doctor in Sep 2008, and trying to build up some contacts for the full respray I'm wanting to treat my E30 to (assuming it gets through this) when I'm earning money. Long time in the future I know, but would be interested to know what kind of price you'd charge to a fellow zoner/poverty stricken junior doctor with 5years of student debt?
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ed325i
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Sat May 05, 2007 9:24 pm

As you say the car is worth £500 max needs the body respraying @ £1000/£1500 plus all the rear suspension replacing. you can get a very nice e30 for £1500.
Dr Firefly
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Sat May 05, 2007 9:56 pm

Trying to wind me up? :D The car is not worth £500 max, at least not to me. I've now got a very reliable car that I know inside out, and has never let me down on a single journey yet. That's worth much more than £500 to me. The body does not need respraying, I was just thinking about doing it at some point to get it back looking mint.

I'm aware that I can get a very nice E30 for £1500. But I can have a lot more fun getting this one up to a similar condition to the best ones on this forum. The question I was asking in this thread was whether people thought, on looking at the photos and mechanical work I've done or had done on this car, that the insurers would value it over the critical £850 for a decent write-off amount to allow me to repair it and get it back on the road at no cost to myself. The other option is getting it back on the road at considerable cost to myself. Either way, it's getting back on the road dammit!!
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Sat May 05, 2007 10:11 pm

Firefly2005 wrote:Cheers for the nice words Beardymat - noticed you mentioned your own bodyshop in your sig. I'm qualifying as a doctor in Sep 2008, and trying to build up some contacts for the full respray I'm wanting to treat my E30 to (assuming it gets through this) when I'm earning money. Long time in the future I know, but would be interested to know what kind of price you'd charge to a fellow zoner/poverty stricken junior doctor with 5years of student debt?
would need to know more about what needs doing to give an accurate quote but you should budget @ £1000 minimum for a proper strip down and full paint.i dont mask up parts unless there is no other option, hate to see paint on rubbers and grilles etc when it takes seconds to remove them.the price does come down to what prep is involved.one thing to remember is not to paint the car for the sake of it, sometimes less is more :wink:
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ed325i
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Sat May 05, 2007 10:15 pm

You are going to have to wait to see what they offer you. but how much is it worth to you is different to the maket/insure value.
Dr Firefly
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Sat May 05, 2007 10:27 pm

Well if you could pm me the number of your shop or your mobile or something, so it can go in my future list of useful contacts, that would be great.

Cheers, Ian
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driftbmw
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Sun May 06, 2007 4:54 pm

best thing is take it to bmw dealers, have a repair quote, ask them to make it juicy.

i had a 316i lux touring on 93 lreg

mint had 53000 miles when i brought it, i lady doctor owner. paid £1480

so one pulled into the side of it, got a quote from a repair place for £600, not good enough

went to bmw dealers they quoted £5800.

in the end i got paid out £2750 from norwich union.

first offer was £1250

check classic car magazines for similiar spec vehicles

send them to the insurace
Dr Firefly
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Sun May 06, 2007 5:08 pm

The insurance company I'm dealing with is Norwich Union, so any more info you've got as to how you went about getting the higher offer etc would be much appreciated. Also, how old was the car when the accident happened? Was this ten years ago, or fairly recent?

Cheers, Ian
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Dr Firefly
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Sun May 06, 2007 5:09 pm

ed325i wrote:You are going to have to wait to see what they offer you. but how much is it worth to you is different to the maket/insure value.
Well aware of that, I'm hoping that I can break at least £850, though £1500 would be very nice :D
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Sun May 06, 2007 5:19 pm

driftbmw wrote:best thing is take it to bmw dealers, have a repair quote, ask them to make it juicy.

i had a 316i lux touring on 93 lreg

mint had 53000 miles when i brought it, i lady doctor owner. paid £1480

so one pulled into the side of it, got a quote from a repair place for £600, not good enough

went to bmw dealers they quoted £5800.

in the end i got paid out £2750 from norwich union.

first offer was £1250

check classic car magazines for similiar spec vehicles

send them to the insurace
thats a good price. book price for average condition and mileage h plate 320 touring is only £400 8O
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Sun May 06, 2007 5:27 pm

Firefly2005 wrote:The insurance company I'm dealing with is Norwich Union, so any more info you've got as to how you went about getting the higher offer
Simple - turn down the first one! They always try it on.
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Brianmoooore
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Sun May 06, 2007 5:29 pm

There wont be any shell damage to this car. Just shove on a complete rear beam and suspension from a breaker.
Dr Firefly
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Sun May 06, 2007 8:06 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:There wont be any shell damage to this car. Just shove on a complete rear beam and suspension from a breaker.
That's the current plan - it's going to have discs on too, so I get an upgrade :D Good to hear you say that it's unlikely to have shell damage, made me feel a bit more optimistic about it all.

How do you refuse an insurance offer? Is it a case of you send a letter explaining why the car is worth more, with details of work done on it, and print-outs of similar cars up for sale from autotrader etc? Or do you need to get a professional valuer or something like that to have a look at it and argue your case?

I've found the insurance people easy to deal with so far - a quick phonecall upgraded me from a corsa to a brand new top of the range Saab (it's huge, I can't park it anywhere) as my courtesy car, but I don't think an increased offer will be that easy...
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Brianmoooore
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Sun May 06, 2007 9:16 pm

It's just a game that insurance companies play.
They offer you a ridiculously low amount - you reject it, and give equally ludicrous reasons why they should pay out enough for a brand new car.
They give an improved offer, saying why that's as far as they can go - you reject that, reducing your demands a bit, and so on, gradually meeting in the middle somewhere.
Don't expect them to be particularly co-operative. Another part of the game is to wear you down in the hope you give up.
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driftbmw
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Tue May 08, 2007 2:57 am

my crash happend in arpril 2006 settlement happened in end of august, had a courtsy car for 4 months, brand new out the dealers a 320d sport, cost £14000 for 4 months, and i wrote that off the day before they collected, speak to a company called accident exchange, they give like for like, i had 1994 touring gave me 2006 sport, wahey
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driftbmw
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Tue May 08, 2007 2:59 am

send in similar speced vehicles, also you can keep the courtsy car for a week after the cheque arrives
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Tue May 08, 2007 9:49 am

Scaaaaabs are just Vectras with posh knickers on.

The main dealer quote is the way to go. Especially as you're gearing this up as a resto job.

Hope you get what you want for it, don't let emotion cloud your judgement. As harsh as Ed325i sounded, he probably sounds a lot like what the insurers will sound like. Expect the worse, be pleasantly surprised when it isn't.
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Tue May 08, 2007 10:33 am

Good luck with this and don't give up - insurance companies are usually incredibly tight when it comes to paying out on older cars that aren't classics on an agreed valuation..

I smashed up my first e30 a good 3 years ago now (the one in my avatar) which was a 'mint' 325i 2dr with full leather etc., less than average miles and hardly a blemish on it - after a lot of refusing offers they agreed to pay out £550. I'd paid £1650 for it about 5 months previously, which at the time seemed like a bargain.

All the best, but don't get your hopes up too high..

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Wed May 09, 2007 5:38 pm

They're not writing it off!!!! Going to offer me "cash in lieu of repairs," - in the words of the engineer, "the cost of new parts would be prohibitive, but if you use second-hand parts, given the car's condition, she's (he said she!) well worth getting back on the road, and this is the best way of doing it" So I'm going to get a cheque for £600 (what my garage quoted him), and then pay £500 (what my garage quoted me) to my garage to get all the repairs sorted. So overall, if this goes through, I'll have had a top of the range Saab for a week, an upgrade to discs, all absolutely free. Just need to get a new BBS 15" wheel for £30ish if anyone's got a good one spare, and get a little bit of respraying sorted. So, all round is hopefully another happy ending and another E30 staying on the road. Made me realise how much I treasure it.

Still have to get the official letters through yet - tempted whether to go for more money or not, as obviously I'm using second-hand parts, so I'd like to have a bit of reserve cash to get any potential failures (wheel bearings, CV joints etc) in those sorted. Part of me just wants to get it all over and get the car back on the road and not ask for too much.

Cheers for the advice from everyone, Ian
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Sun May 27, 2007 11:01 am

Right, a bit of an update. Generally it's not been smooth sailing! Been helping out at the garage to keep all the costs down, means they only need one person on the job so labour costs'll hopefully be halved. Old rear sub-frame and trailing arms came down fine, and then I saw the 'new' subframe, trailing arms and hubs that had been sourced to put back on the car. Looked like it had been used as a boat anchor for years.

So there was no question that the replacement subframe and trailing arms set-up was going to be a bit of work, a bit of a shame as I'd been hoping it would all just swap over easily. Had a look at the brake pipes on the car, and decided I might aswell get those renewed while everything was off. And the propshaft coupling too - and then I changed the bushes in the gearshift linkage aswell. So hopefully the car will drive a bit better when it's back on the road. Anyway, the new brake lines look good - done a really good job on it.

Got new discs, pads, shoes, spring kit, handbrake cables, just need to see if the calipers are seized, but that's going to have to wait till the brake system's bled up I suppose. Changed all the brake hoses and lines on the trailing arms too.

So things have definitely gone over £500! :( Especially as the wheel bearings need doing - basically the only decent parts were the trailing arms and the rear subframe. Even the backing plates have rusted to hell and the slotes where the handbrake shoe retaining clips should slot into have rusted away into 1cm holes. So that means new backing plates... grrr...

But on a positive note, I'm learning a hell of a lot about mechanics! I could now change rear subframe bushes, make brakepipes, understand how the whole rear suspension works... all good knowledge - no substitute for experience is there? Given me the confidence to probably do any similar jobs myself in future, I never realised how simple it all was.

What else.. oh I replaced the blue temp sender, though about 25 ml of water must have come out of the cooling system when I changed it - does that mean I'll have to bleed up the cooling system before running the engine? Wanting Brianmooore to tell me no if possible! Changed the rocker cover gasket and those four black rubber seals that go underneath it, as one of those was leaking. Got the shock of my life when I turned the key on the engine though, thought I'd left a spanner or something in there, but realised it was due to the lack of an exhaust - sounded like a spitfire or something :mad:

And I changed the T-piece in the windscreen washer system, you were right Brian it sorted the problem straight away. I now have a beautiful spraying pattern over the whole windscreen now.

So basically, it's getting to be a bigger and bigger job, and costing lots, but I am going to get rear discs, new brakelines, new wheel bearings, new rear subframe bushes, etc etc, and I have had time in a garage to do little niggling things that have been bothering me. Will end up paying out a couple of hundred of my own money, but I think the car will be a better car for it. All stuff that I know is done now, probably won't increase it's value to anyone else but will increase it's value to me. Will try and get some pics up tomorrow of how things are looking.

One more thing... Munky if you're looking at this, I ended up getting very angry when I was trying to take the hideous Breyton rear valance off, and ended up ripping it to pieces with a big set of grips to get it off. I'll get a photo of it for you, but it's definitely not worth £15 now! You can fit most of it in a Morrisons shopping bag :D But the car looks so much better with the kit off - more well-balanced, with nicer lines.

Any moral (or financial winkeye ) support welcome. Is all this hassle worth it for a 320i that's heading towards gradual mintness? Need a bit of the E30zone love and support :group:
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Brianmoooore
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Sun May 27, 2007 3:03 pm

Only mistake you've made is in the sourcing of the rear beam/suspension. There's plenty out there that would only need new mounting bushes before being bolted straight on. I've never seen a dud trailing arm bush, wheelbearing, or even a backplate that's beyond saving.
Brake lines should be done as a matter of course if the subframe's off.
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Sun May 27, 2007 4:58 pm

Brianmoooore wrote:Only mistake you've made is in the sourcing of the rear beam/suspension. There's plenty out there that would only need new mounting bushes before being bolted straight on. I've never seen a dud trailing arm bush, wheelbearing, or even a backplate that's beyond saving.
Brake lines should be done as a matter of course if the subframe's off.
Cold comfort I'm afraid Brian - pretty well aware that it wasn't the best rear beam set-up now, but I just made the mistake of trusting the garage - I mean I took one look at it and thought "Oh shit" but it was all we had to work with and we're on a time budget. Been well and truly fleeced when I look at the prices the rear set-up costs if I'm sourcing it from on here. But I wasn't sure about how I'd be able to get it all to Nottingham etc, as obviously I had no transport etc.... well at least it's all coming together now hopefully.

There was one question for you Brian - will the fact that I lost that 25ml or so of coolant when changing the blue temp sender mean it needs bleeding up, or will it work itself out?
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Sun May 27, 2007 5:06 pm

Firefly2005 wrote:I could now change rear subframe bushes,
fancy doin mine :mad:
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Sun May 27, 2007 8:49 pm

Firefly2005 wrote:There was one question for you Brian - will the fact that I lost that 25ml or so of coolant when changing the blue temp sender mean it needs bleeding up, or will it work itself out?
As long as it was coolant coming out and not air going in then it should just need a top up.
Do the usual of checking for heat from the heater within a couple of minutes of starting the engine and carefully watching the temp gauge.
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Thu May 31, 2007 6:01 pm

Almost done I hope! Seems to drive fine, but just noticed a slight knocking noise in the rear, it feels like something clunking every half a revolution - could it be the CV joint? It's strange - I couldn't replicate it when the rear was jacked up and I was turning the rear right hand wheel (the one that was hit) by hand.

The other (possibly major) problem is that while the car feels normal and drives fine, the wheel that was hit is now approximately 1.5cm closer to the front of the wheel arch than the other side. The steering also seems most comfortable about 5degrees to the left, but I'm hoping that's just the tracking knocked out a bit by the crash.

The car's being checked on Monday for the wheel alignment, so I'm just desperately hoping that the rear wheels are pointing the right way? I repeat, the car drives fine, so I'm assuming if the chassis is twisted enough to show the wheels pointing the wrong way on the alignment, that the only problem will be that the car is more likely to eat up it's tyres more quickly? Breaks straight and drives straight, feels safe round corners etc.

Thoughts? Is it looking like I'll be left with the option of jigging or scrapping the car?
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Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:36 am

What was the outcome of this? It sounds like you would have been better off holding out for a decent rear subframe rather than fitting a rusty one, which could still be causing the alignment issue!

Cool numberplate by the way - F'ECK!!! :P
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Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:53 am

Car's driving beautifully. The grinding noise was coming from the one component I hadn't replaced after the accident - the CV joint. Changed that and the noise went. The wheel actually looked like it was sat forwards because of a dodgy job someone's done in the past on the rear wheel arches - it was the wheel arch in slightly the wrong place! Done 2000 miles with no noticeable wear on the tyres, so no problems there. And the front wheel alignment had been knocked out horrendously in the crash. It drove so much better after that was adjusted, and the steering wheel stopped pointing to the left too...

So all in all, it's gone well. Having a break from the car a little at the moment, and concentrating on my studies. Only new thing on the horizon is a brand new ICV I've splashed out on, and then I'm leaving the next projects till next year when I start earning. But long term, she's having uprated suspension, brakes, and a turbod 2.8 dropped in. Plus an IS front splitter, and SE sideskirts. Then it'll just be the day to day maintenance.

But she's having a rest in the garage at the moment. Keeping out of the rain, and only insured for 5000 miles this year, rather than the 20000 it did last year. Don't need to commute this year, I'm within walking distance.

And the numberplate was the deciding factor that made me decide to buy the car for £200 on Ebay. Love it.
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