bmw concept

Discuss Non-E30 BMW's in here - No selling!

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SDM
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 12:54 pm

Royalratch wrote:Can't see the point of this model.

Mercedes pissed a lot of people off with it's insane and confusing model line-up.

How is this different to a 5-Series? All BMW's are sporty so you don't really have the problem of the 4 door cars being dull.

This way lies dilution of the brand.

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3
5
6
7
Where does this fit in? A 4 door 6? Why not get a an M5 then?
i'm guessing, and i know its a long shot, that BMW actually have done some research into this model and there is a gap in the market that this will fill. The 4 door GT type of thing, for those people who dont want to mix it with the lowly 520d or whatever it is they do in the current range.

although, im sure BMW will take on board your opinion rather than what their millions have shown and scrap the whole thing.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 12:56 pm

78dude wrote:Sorry, but I like this one better....

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Amen to that :cool:
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 1:17 pm

nickso wrote:
munky30 wrote:
Dammit, where were you last year?!

I had a mazda xedos 6 and always said from the side it looked (very remotely) like the quattroporte and people just looked at me funny :o:

Maybe they were just looking at me funny because I owned a xedos 6....


:?
its only the shape of the back door that looks the same to me really :)
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The back door's different, its the roofline and 'hips' over the back wheels that are similar.

No really they are....
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 1:30 pm

whiteM3 wrote:
Royalratch wrote:Can't see the point of this model.

Mercedes pissed a lot of people off with it's insane and confusing model line-up.

How is this different to a 5-Series? All BMW's are sporty so you don't really have the problem of the 4 door cars being dull.

This way lies dilution of the brand.

1
3
5
6
7
Where does this fit in? A 4 door 6? Why not get a an M5 then?
i'm guessing, and i know its a long shot, that BMW actually have done some research into this model and there is a gap in the market that this will fill. The 4 door GT type of thing, for those people who dont want to mix it with the lowly 520d or whatever it is they do in the current range.

although, im sure BMW will take on board your opinion rather than what their millions have shown and scrap the whole thing.
So I ask you what is the 6 for? And you must mean the same research that sold zillions of 8-Series' and Z8's. The lead times for research and development are very long. Consumer trends can swing wildly during these periods and can and HAVE left many companies with their pants down. The Cayenne could have sunk Posrche if the SUV bubble burst a bit sooner. They lucked out and raked in big.

This new BMW seems to be motivated less by a gaping whole in the market and more with keeping up with Merc etc. My point is that BMW owners needs appear to be different than Mercs.
What's your opinion? 'That BMW must have done sumfink right or else dey wouldn't have made it like, innit?'

Nobody was saying BMW should listen to me smart-arse, just that I can question their decision. Have you seen the people that run these marketing focus groups? The kind of people they ask? Have you?
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 2:03 pm

Royalratch wrote:
whiteM3 wrote:
Royalratch wrote:Can't see the point of this model.

Mercedes pissed a lot of people off with it's insane and confusing model line-up.

How is this different to a 5-Series? All BMW's are sporty so you don't really have the problem of the 4 door cars being dull.

This way lies dilution of the brand.

1
3
5
6
7
Where does this fit in? A 4 door 6? Why not get a an M5 then?
i'm guessing, and i know its a long shot, that BMW actually have done some research into this model and there is a gap in the market that this will fill. The 4 door GT type of thing, for those people who dont want to mix it with the lowly 520d or whatever it is they do in the current range.

although, im sure BMW will take on board your opinion rather than what their millions have shown and scrap the whole thing.
So I ask you what is the 6 for? And you must mean the same research that sold zillions of 8-Series' and Z8's. The lead times for research and development are very long. Consumer trends can swing wildly during these periods and can and HAVE left many companies with their pants down. The Cayenne could have sunk Posrche if the SUV bubble burst a bit sooner. They lucked out and raked in big.

This new BMW seems to be motivated less by a gaping whole in the market and more with keeping up with Merc etc. My point is that BMW owners needs appear to be different than Mercs.
What's your opinion? 'That BMW must have done sumfink right or else dey wouldn't have made it like, innit?'

Nobody was saying BMW should listen to me smart-arse, just that I can question their decision. Have you seen the people that run these marketing focus groups? The kind of people they ask? Have you?
lol, were your fingers hurting after typing that?

the 6 is for people that only want two doors...

8 series was released at the same time as an oil crisis and cost, what, £80k?? not exactly gonna sell a lot were they?

same goes for the z8, its not going to be as 'popular' as a 3 series cos of the price tag and what it will be competing with for that price bracket.

my opinion is not 'That BMW must have done sumfink right or else dey wouldn't have made it like, innit?'

because i do not speak or type like that, but i guess you knew that really you just got upset.

Mercedes are BMWs biggest rival, thats right a rival, that means they compete with them. If merc have a certain car in a certain range then BMW have to match it, and so it goes the other way around.

I can question you too.

way to go me.

I have not seen the people that run these marketing focus groups.
I have not seen the kind of people they ask.
I have not.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 2:20 pm

My fingers don't hurt - it's all in a days work for zoners like yourself who cannot seem to express an opinion or question another without an offensive tone or attitude of some sort.

Yes I am offensive and have an attitude but never to start with. Only to end with.

The car and it's positioning sucks. That's my opinion. Your opinion is unknown, preferring to quote basic marketing practice instead of telling us what you think.

BMW 4 door cars are not as lame and dull as Merc/Audi 4 door cars thus, the need for a special GT 4 door is not as needed as in the Audi/Merc line-up. Who would say that an M5 just doesn't do it for or the 6 reeeealy needs another 2 doors.

It's a big, bloated, vanity boat which Merc does very well and BMW should stay well away from.

Now, so we can progress this thread and not bicker - what do you think of the car?
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 2:27 pm

Royalratch wrote:My fingers don't hurt - it's all in a days work for zoners like yourself who cannot seem to express an opinion or question another without an offensive tone or attitude of some sort.

Yes I am offensive and have an attitude but never to start with. Only to end with.

Now, so we can progress this thread and not bicker - what do you think of the car?
LOL, brilliant, get the boot in then can we change the subject please?

Top marks ;-)

I like the car.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 2:35 pm

My boot was bigger and shinier tho.

I tend to look at cars not just as sole objects but also as man indication of where that brand is headed. I don't like where BMW is headed with that yacht.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 2:39 pm

Royalratch do you think BMW would make this car if they think there is not a market? I don't think so.

BMW are one of the best in the business and have been doing it for years.

Not trying to cause and argument here but seems you think your cleverer than BMW.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 2:43 pm

Royalratch wrote:My boot was bigger and shinier tho.

I tend to look at cars not just as sole objects but also as man indication of where that brand is headed. I don't like where BMW is headed with that yacht.
there you go with another "my dads bigger than your dad" type post.

i thought you were trying to progress this thread about the car, now you are going back to the direction/choices of BMW?

@Max, thats what i said earlier, don't worry he'll be too busy getting up on his high horse with me to get in an argument with you too. :D
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 3:46 pm

I'll take you both no sweat.

What I'm saying is, you don't have to commit to, love and believe in everything BMW do.

I don't. That does not mean I'm smarter than BMW.

We're talking about everyone's opinions on the car and the brand, not whether 'BMW are the best in the business' and can never get it wrong.

These decisions, ultimately, are made by people just like you and me, albeit a little sharper, with a bit more research under their belt and a little more in tune with BMW's target group.

But in the end, right at the top, some guys have to say, Hmmm, I don't know guys, what doe we think?...' Nothing is a sure thing and the decisions are voted on by the board.

Get it now?
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 3:55 pm

whiteM3 wrote:there you go with another "my dads bigger than your dad" type post.

i thought you were trying to progress this thread about the car, now you are going back to the direction/choices of BMW?
What on earth is this thread about if not the direction/decisions of BMW then you nutcase?!? :mad:

LOL!
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 3:57 pm

Royalratch wrote:Now, so we can progress this thread and not bicker - what do you think of the car?
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 4:01 pm

You're digging your own grave deeper pal.

I'm saying we should discuss the car and BMW's direction and asked you to do so.

So what does your quote of me do other than confirm that? Have you lost the plot? :roll:
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 4:01 pm

i am away in hong kong at the moment but maged to spot this ..i know but minis are made by BMW



http://www.wxpnews.com/W6R75K/070501-Ultimate-Stretch
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 4:06 pm

Royalratch wrote:You're digging your own grave deeper pal.

I'm saying we should discuss the car and BMW's direction and asked you to do so.

So what does your quote of me do other than confirm that? Have you lost the plot? :roll:
lol, another insult, ace.

it confirms that this you wanted us to 'progress' this thread by talking about the car not the direction of BMW

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 4:17 pm

They are ONE AND THE SAME!

Jesus...

Maybe I started a off a bit too up there for you and should so this in baby steps...

DO YOU LIKE THE COLOUR WHITEM3? COOL ISN'T IT?
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 4:19 pm

Royalratch wrote:They are ONE AND THE SAME!

Jesus...

Maybe I started a off a bit too up there for you and should so this in baby steps...

DO YOU LIKE THE COLOUR WHITEM3? COOL ISN'T IT?
lmao.....as much as a pain in the arse ratch is, that was funny.

now stop fucking around and fucking up threads.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 4:21 pm

I totally hold my hands up and admit I destroyed your thread.

I'll get some more pics of that things and get this going again.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 5:01 pm

They'd only have to look at the sales of quadroporte and the merc boat to see that there are people for whom the 6 series and the 5 series doesn't work for. Be it styling or people being fussy b@stards.

While it draws on other BM features, this prototype is a clear shift from other bmw marques, which have previoulsy drawn inspiration from their own archives (z3 z8 6 series etc). It seem s BMW feel there's enough or a market to warrant an attempt to attract sales they feel they have missed out on.

For over staurated markets, check SUV's 4x4's etc etc in the States. The variants in size from susulki xj200 (I think it was called that) throu x3, x5, Ford Exporer, Jeep Cherokee markets to vehicles that'll dwarf Wange Wovers. All these can be seen in the city!!!

It's an extravagant option but I reckon it has pitched itself nicely in the same extravagant market place as the quadroporte and cls.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 5:05 pm

But is that where BMW should be? Luxo-barge territory?

It's shirt-term gain versus long term brand erosion.

That territory isn't a sure bet to stay. Just like SUV's.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 5:13 pm

Royalratch wrote:But is that where BMW should be? Luxo-barge territory?

It's shirt-term gain versus long term brand erosion.

That territory isn't a sure bet to stay. Just like SUV's.
Any successful business needs the flexibility to respond to market demands.

Being stuffy and pompous about the stylings of outdates modes of transport in the vanity of 'brand identity preservation' is lunacy.

Look at where BMW were in the 40's 50's and 60's and it'll give you an idea as to how the brand moved in the subsequest 30 years or so. FFS the bubble car crap??

Oh and you realise the roundel symbolises the 4 rotor plane engine they used to manufacture. If stepping from 4 rotors to 4 wheels isn't a change of brand identity, I don't know what is. Instead it's a sign that they recognised where the market place was going and adapted to reflect it.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 5:21 pm

Royalratch wrote:But is that where BMW should be? Luxo-barge territory?

It's shirt-term gain versus long term brand erosion.

That territory isn't a sure bet to stay. Just like SUV's.
but all of this can be seen as your own personal opinion.

the type of wanker currently buying a bmw doesnt really give a toss about the brand. all they want is what they think is a cool car that gets one over the smythe-jones's next door. once merc or aston or whoever release the next thing to have, then they move on.

no matter if it yeilds any long term money BMW wont want to miss out on having a car that can compete with the very top end market.

at least they arent building vans yet.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 5:21 pm

They had to change - they were not allowed to continue with any aviation products after the war no?

There's responding to massive market trends (SUV's) then there's this niche 4-door sport barge thing.

Not sure what you mean about stuffy and pompous - the brand is THE jewel in BMW's crown. Preserving that by choosing carefully where they should and should not be is not lunacy - rushing in to make some quick dough on a 'trend' that may or may not be around in 3 years is. I was all for the flame surfacing thing, I could see they had to innovate there so I don't mind some innovation - this is not tho, it's a quick mirror of what Merc is doing.

They going to make a people carrier next?

This looks like another 8-series to me...
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 5:27 pm

nickso wrote:but all of this can be seen as your own personal opinion.
Why does everyone keep saying this?!

It was only ever my opinion! Do you really think I was trying to dissprive BMW's marketing might? Jeez...

At the very least it's to maintain healthy debate and look at what this car means from another angle. Maybe this is not the place for such discussion and we should stick to talking about what the lights look like...
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 5:29 pm

Royalratch wrote:They had to change - they were not allowed to continue with any aviation products after the war no?

There's responding to massive market trends (SUV's) then there's this niche 4-door sport barge thing.

Not sure what you mean about stuffy and pompous - the brand is THE jewel in BMW's crown. Preserving that by choosing carefully where they should and should not be is not lunacy - rushing in to make some quick dough on a 'trend' that may or may not be around in 3 years is. I was all for the flame surfacing thing, I could see they had to innovate there so I don't mind some innovation - this is not tho, it's a quick mirror of what Merc is doing.

They going to make a people carrier next?

This looks like another 8-series to me...
8 series? There we go!! An already established market for heavy gt cruisers. Mazda switched the rx7 for the 4 door rx8. So this 4door variant shows it's place.

I thought that Germany was prevented from any military endeavors but could bmw not have continued in a civil capcity?

The fact that Messerschmidt (sp) and Fokker didn't continue, reinforces my point about being able to change direction.

Again, there is no link from the bubble car to the 2002 so again, an example of change in direction.

By pompus and stuffy, I was refering to attitudes towards change, sorry if I inferred anything else.

Markets continuously evolve and change, BMW have in excess of 60 years of proven innovation, in the case of the 3 series, to it's own detriment. The 3 series outsells the Mundano and is the choice repmobile. That's brand errosion. Not innovative designs that challenge perceived conceptions about what a car should be.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 5:36 pm

You think a 4-door sport barge is innovation?

I view it like I view the Cayenne - they'll make a killing but the loyalists think it sucks.

The 3-Series is a victim of it's own success but does not damage the brand as it's surrounded by the all the other cars in the range.

What does the Mundano have to lift it?
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 6:33 pm

Didn't the Cayenne win some trans Europe-siberian desert race a la Paris Dakar?

Ugly as sin but a performance vehicle none-the-less and a feat of engineering.

It's the pompus 911 owner that frown on it, but it's still an achievement, Porsche deemed it necessary and so it exists. If the purists got their way, the 911 would still be an air-cooled harbringer of pendulum death!!

The 4 door is innovative in the sense it is not concentric. It's not in a market place all of it's own but it's not conscribing to regularly accepted car categories. It is also a very good looking car with nice proportions.

The 3 series does damage the brand as it is devoid of all exclusivity, this does tarnish the range. Much like all English football supporters are viewed as hooligans in Europes eyes.

Even the m3 has 'council' status IMO. So it doesn't give the 3 series it's get out of jail card the Mundano also lacks.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 7:27 pm

pmsl!

bless.

i prefer pink actually.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 7:40 pm

blatantarrogance wrote:If the purists got their way, the 911 would still be an air-cooled harbringer of pendulum death!!
LOL!! I drove a 70's big vinyl whale tale one - it was a serious handful.
The 3-series is not setting the world on fire but it's not council. If we lift ourselves out of the mire of 17 year old BMW's we'll find that the current 3's are still 'up there' in terms of badge snobbishness.
The Cayenne is horrid and not that amazing a feat - why?

In the end it comes down to why you buy into which brands - this car suggests a change in tack that I don't like from Munich.
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 8:07 pm

Royalratch wrote:I totally hold my hands up and admit I destroyed your thread.

I'll get some more pics of that things and get this going again.
Have you ever had a sexual relationship with a Woman, Raschid? I mean a real one, not a virtual specimen on your sperm spattered PC or the one on the end of your arm with five sisters. :wan:
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 8:13 pm

Andyboy wrote:
Royalratch wrote:I totally hold my hands up and admit I destroyed your thread.

I'll get some more pics of that things and get this going again.
Have you ever had a sexual relationship with a Woman, Raschid? I mean a real one, not a virtual specimen on your sperm spattered PC or the one on the end of your arm with five sisters. :wan:
Mods?

If that's not a strike I don't know what is...
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Post Tue May 01, 2007 8:20 pm

Aaaah what's the matter Poppit, has Mummy's little Soldier had a tantrum? :D

You sound like one of the sad kids at school whining to teacher. Grow up FFS.
Sad, very very sad. (but funny) :twisted: winkeye

Let's see some pics of the 911 then!! What model was she? Turbo, 2.7S K Jet, 3.0SC?
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Post Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:43 am

What happened next? Did this get blocked? Fight Fight Fight!
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Post Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:30 am

n1tr0_9 wrote:What happened next? Did this get blocked? Fight Fight Fight!
Blimey, thats a blast from the past. Ratch is his original and best incarnation. Happy days! :D