M50 / M52 / S50 manifold group buy?

[Jhonno]

Having spoken to Ste im 'quite' annoyed with btb.. Feel bad for him after the effort, however quality alternatives are bein quickly researched which will hopefully yield the same results and quicker

[jmc330i]

Now Ive calmed down a bit - As Jhonno said, Im 'quite' annoyed with BTB and feel really bad for Ste after all the work he put into this, lets hope something can get sorted.

[Sooty]

After all the damned hard work you put into this Ste, and the bloody con-artist pulls this sort of stunt
This is an obvious attempt at a rip-off.

Go get the parts back and try your local man Ste.

SOOTY'S STILL IN WITH YOU.......& BO****KS TO BTB

[old_skool]

Having spoken to Ste im 'quite' annoyed with btb.. Feel bad for him after the effort, however quality alternatives are bein quickly researched which will hopefully yield the same results and quicker

I'm with Jhonno.

Glad your not sunning yourself on that beach though Ste

SOOTY'S STILL IN WITH YOU.......& BO****KS TO BTB

Yep, I agree with Sooty.

Tell BTB to kiss my cherries too

[ste]

Thanks chaps.

I do think BTB have made a genuine mistake by the way. He honestly underestimated the work involved and told me he just can not do them for that price.

I'm as disapointed as you all though. Remember I'm still without a proper manifold to fit to my car too.

Anyway - I'll update as soon as I can and hopefully next time it will be good news. In the meantime can you all let me know how you personally want to proceed. If you're still in - great. But if not let me know and i'll sort out refunds. Just to clear up, BTB have not been passed any deposits. I've paid them for development work, and Ian paid for work on his car too. They also have our donor manifolds, but they don't have anyone's deposit.

[MR_SAZ]

BTB does this day in and day out...i find it hard to believe they misunderstood what was required....

What i am concerned about is the fact that they now have the R & D done and paid for and they are could possibly use it for their advantage...ie retail production.

I dont think it FAIR that BTB retain the intellectual property rights to this, they have not held up their end of the deal and have shattered all of my hopes of getting this manifold! What a WASTE of time and to find out NOW that its going to be alot of work is just crap!

I dont think i`ll be buying BTB ever again...honouring a deal is something they havent done here...

i`m really pissed off!

To Ste and Ian, thanks guys, i guess you could only know how much we wanted these items..

Nevertheless the show must go on.... i say go to the competitor and see what u can do...

otherwise i`m going to buy something local here

sash

[Jhonno]

I understand he might of underestimated the amount of work involved, however why was nothing said sooner and also, im pretty sure its not gonna be 30hrs of extra work per manifold to mod the pipe.. Remember they build the BTB manifolds sold through the 'Zone shop' for circa £680 from scratch..

Again not blaming Ste or anyone involved on here but its disappointing how this has been handled by them esp considering Ste has paid the developmental costs already

[Jhonno]

What i am concerned about is the fact that they now have the R & D done and paid for and they are could possibly use it for their advantage...ie retail production

Interesting point imo.. Was discussing this with a mate last nite

[buster]

Sorry to hear this guys,that really sucks.I think BTB are taking the piss.They obviously know fine well how much work is involved and are bumping the price.How much are you guys paying for a manifold ? Mine cost £400 to be modified, the guy that did it said it would have been easier to make it from scratch than modify the old one.He isn't an exhaust manufacturer and it took him a week to do,he doesn't have a lift or a fancy work shop.So why would btb be struggling i dont know.

[MR_SAZ]

I just read over my thread above...just to clarify, By no means was i having a go at our fellow E30 zone members... i have nothing but praise for everyone here. I was more venting at BTB lack of professionalism and transparency.

As mentioned above...i agree, i thought BTB had a jig that did all the work and it was only the intial seting up that was going to cost money.

I dont want to sound like a saw loser...but i was really excited about this..

And Ste and Ian if i`m feeling this way im sure u guys must be 100000x worse, having put ur own time and money into this... not to mention the time away from your beloved E30s..

well i guess thats all the BTB bashing i`ll be doing. i`ll be focusing on getting a solution to my exhaust header problem so guys lets all vent and get back to it!

I LOVE E30ZONE

[jmc330i]

Just to clear up, BTB have not been passed any deposits.

Thats a shame. AFAIK, if BTB have quoted to make X amount of manifolds at a set price and taken a deposit on that basis, then they would have to honour that price for those manifolds. After that, they can do what they like with the price.

Would like to hear some details on the alternative manifolds before I make a decision, but I will probably still be in

[Beemer Redeemer]

Hmm... that is a damn shame.

But then these things are sent to test us.

Massive continued thanks to Ste and Ian aswell for the time and effort (not to mention money) that's been put in so far just to help out us fellow zoners, but to be honest, almost complete strangers.
This is what i love about a forum comunity.

Anyway, i am stil in at the moment but as James has said, i would like to hear some info on the alternative route / competitor before making a firm decision about that additional 500-600 or whatever it will be.

Cheers
James

[jaistanley]

I am truly gutted.

I have a possible alternative lead...

A chap here at work has a family member with a small, high-end fabrication company.

If I can get him a manifold to copy, he might be interested in doing the fabrication work for us, and is especially interested in the prospect of a 'bulk run' (the chaps from this GB) and possible future work with zoners.

At the moment it's just a lead and I am yet to contact him with the details.

What I'm after are a set of rough specs, ie materials and an explanation of the works carried out on Ians (and to Ste's if he has his finished??) manifold to get it to the state it is at now.

[adil325i]

updates? if any?

[M5pilot]

Not good news on this.

I am surprised that BTB have increased the price of the work when they quite clearly agreed to do something at a certain price.

Ste,

if you need to off load the S50 manifolds, the E36 328i guys might be a good place to start as T1000 is fitting one to his 328iS and it seems it may go on without much problem with only minor mods to the down pipes.

As long as you guys can get some sort of decent manifold on the conversions will still be excellent.

Personally, I would pay the extra monet BTB are asking for as the end product will be the best, Joe doesn't do anything in halves.

[jaistanley]

On principle, that un-professional little pr!ck isn't getting a penny of mine. Not only am I dissapointed in their behaviour on a personal level (I want my car now! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!) but I certainly would not accept the same from a supplier here at work.

I wouldn't normally express my oppinion so vehemontly as you could argue it's as un-professional; but I'm not at work now and this is a public forum..

I'm currently talking to another fabricator in Daventry who I am versing in all of the drawbacks and problems so far. He has expressed an interest, ESPECIALLY a volume of about 5+, and is willing to copy an existing manifold, or at our expense probably, come up with a sollution based on 'engine in car'.

He is a close friend of a work collegue and has done some SERIOUSLY nice kit in the past. I'm not gonna say any more till I have talked to a few people but Ste and Ian, I'll email you very soon with some ideas...

Like you I'm going to need to sort my own manifold so I'm trying to come up with a sollution that'll help everybody.

Jai

[Edited so as not to speculate on other peoples opinions]

[ste]

I've possibly already spoken to your 'other supplier in Daventry' Jai.

Pm me so we can make sure we're not doing all of this work twice.

[jmc330i]

Just wondering if there is any good news yet

[adil325i]

thats a better way of asking! im getting extremely close to scrapping the whole project altogether! getting a bit tired looking at it now.

but as they say, patience is a virtue...

[old_skool]

I don't mean to make things more complex for you Ste, Ian, but I need another set of manifolds done as well please.

[FlappySocks]

im getting extremely close to scrapping the whole project altogether! getting a bit tired looking at it now.

Maybe we can get some cheap M30 manifolds made up instead

What makes branch manifolds so expensive? R&D, Labour, materials?

Stuart

[MR_SAZ]

i`m always checking on this page for updates....let us know

[old_skool]

i`m always checking on this page for updates....let us know

I've spoken to Ste and to Ian over the past couple of days and they are doing their best. I know it's frustrating looking at this page on a daily basis and waiting for updates.

We're all in the same boat. Rest assured they are talking to people to sort it out.

[jaistanley]

Yea. I'm working on an avenue of investigation too but have been slack over the last week as I've been trying out living with her indoors...

A big thanks to Ste and Ian again.

Jai

[jmc330i]

I've been trying out living with her indoors...

Good luck

A big thanks to Ste and Ian again.

As always

[Martinaston]

This may be a bit off topic but it may help.
I've seen motorbike exhausts being made and to be honest looks pretty simple, all they did is get two sheets of steel and mark and cut out the shape of the pipe and then weld them together along the edge. They then seal one end and fit a plug at the other, then just pump in water at high pressure and watch the thing take shape as it balloons out. After that you just cut it into sections and rotate it to bring it out of the 2 dimensions so to speak and weld it back together.
If you have a look at the noisy little mopeds zipping about you'll see what i mean, they have all the little twists and turns that you couldn't get with a pipe bender. Its a neat trick because you can also vary the diameter of the pipe and still keep the tight bends.

How well this would work with a thicker guage plate i've no idea, you'd probably have to use a hydraulic ram to get the pressure required

So if BTB say they can't get the tight bend required (i may be wrong i havn't read the whole thread) you could try a motor bike specialist.

Anyway just a thought, best of luck.

[Jhonno]

Slightly random one, but does anyone know if the S50 manifolds can be safely heat wrapped (once we get them back of course - not a dig btw!! )

[oze30]

I think Mr saz has a point. The intelectual rights to this should still belong to ian/ste as it was there concept. If they produce something withn a certain time after having renegged on the deal, I'm fairly sure that they could be up the creek.

BUT, I think you need to say to them or needed to say to them that if you cannot continue with the production, then you will not have any rights to copy/make this manifold within x years.

(thats from what I remember from my meagre law knowledge)

Can find out where we stand legally as my landlords boyf is a lawyer.

Did you get anything in writing from them? ie: Yes, we can produce x amount for Y quid?

just a thought. I hate seeing people screwed over by companies!

[ste]

Slightly random one, but does anyone know if the S50 manifolds can be safely heat wrapped (once we get them back of course - not a dig btw!! )

Yes they can dude - Ian's are wrapped.

Will be pushing for an update this week people. If I only get dead ends and Jai's contact doesn't work out we may be stuck using BTB and swallowing the price and/or people sorting themselves out again. Hopefully we won't end up there but I don't think threatening BTB with shonky legal proceedings will help our cause at all.

[old_skool]

Slightly random one, but does anyone know if the S50 manifolds can be safely heat wrapped (once we get them back of course - not a dig btw!! )

Yes they can dude - Ian's are wrapped.

Will be pushing for an update this week people. If I only get dead ends and Jai's contact doesn't work out we may be stuck using BTB and swallowing the price and/or people sorting themselves out again. Hopefully we won't end up there but I don't think threatening BTB with shonky legal proceedings will help our cause at all.

I agree, the fact that it hasn't worked out how it should have is irrelevant. What is important is moving on and getting us all manifolds.

I have three questions:

What price are BTB proposing exactly? More importantly, Ste, Ian, do you think they are value for money in any case:?:

If we were, or some of us were to say yes. Then what would BTB's lead time be.

[jmc330i]

I agree, the fact that it hasn't worked out how it should have is irrelevant. What is important is moving on and getting us all manifolds.

Good call mate.

TBH, I dont think I can afford or justify the price increase for the BTB, but I would like to hear what the final damage would be before making my decision on the BTB.

Hopefully Ste or Jai's contacts can come up with something

[old_skool]

Any news yet?

[ste]

Sorry Dameon, been very busy here, will find out for you this weekend if they are in, or failing that Monday morning.

Cheers-
Ste

[adil325i]

awaiting prices! may have to consider this...

[ste]

Update

Thanks everyone for your patience so far.

I have decided to finalise the group buy. When I started it I worked for myself and could afford the time to take days off here and there to talk to suppliers and chase up and down the country planning and organising everything. I now work full time in London, usually for 12 hours a day and with a wife and little boy that also need my time I no longer have the time to chase around companies like I need to.

I'm happy for someone else to take over the group buy. I can hand over all of the donor manifolds and we can settle the deposits and payments etc. I know Jai has spoken to other suppliers off his own back -maybe he'll want to take it on? If anyone is interested, PM me, mail me on steATm50e30.co.uk or ring me on 07968 444 017.

My enquiries with other supplies didn't get us anywhere really. Costs are at least what BTB want, plus scoping and costings have got to the point where they all want to see a car and manifold etc to do their own R&D. We're looking at booking in, waiting like we did with BTB and then finding out the prices may well rise evern further once they realise the scope of the work.

I've just got off the phone to Joe at BTB. He needs to know what work we want him to do. He's aware that we're not happy with the price now, but can't reduce any further. (In fact the X pipe has actually gone up since I last spoke to him...) He's giving us the best group buy price he can. It's now unfortunately at the stage where we pay these amounts or I collect our donor manifolds and pass them onto whoever thinks they can take the group buy further.

With this in mind I personally won't be able to offer an M50/M52 manifold. Bear in mind this means I do not have a finished manifold either.

These are the final group buy prices for products if we use BTB:


Modify S50 manifold - £980
X pipe - £305.50
Exhaust system - £950

Could everyone now please contact me to let me know how you want to proceed. If you phone me please try and ring out of office hours and not too late a night!

This is the current order status:

I don't have access to my home email here - I'll fill in the deposit information correctly later on.

1) Adil [PAID £400] - I have your manifold

2) Jhonno [DEPOSIT PAID] - I have your manifold

3) E30_tracker [+ full system][DEPOSIT PAID] - I have 1/2 your manifold, I supplied 1/2 your manifold.

4) jmc330i [PAID £495]- I supplied your manifold

5) Simon Murphy (simys) [PAID IN FULL]

6) Ian332isport [ALREADY PAID BTB] - I supplied 1/2 your manifold

7) jaistanley [PAID £400] - I have your manifold

8 ) old_skool_2002 [+ full system] [DEPOSIT PAID] - I have your manifold

9 ) old_skool_2002 [+ full system] [No Deposit Paid] - No manifold supplied

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I say the M50/M52 manifold will not be produced by BTB. Sooty / Jimbob I'm very sorry about this. Let me know how you want to settle things. I had deposits off you both, but I provided your manifolds which cost me more than the deposits.

1) Sooty [DEPOSIT PAID] - I supplied your manifold
2) Jimbob [DEPOSIT PAID] - I supplied your manifold

Sorry again everyone - I've tried my best I'm afraid but can't take it any further than finishing what i've started with BTB. If you're in let me know and I'll arrange payment, if you're out let me know and Ill settle up with you.

Cheers-
Ste