The Most Powerfull 4 pot (2.5 Follow up)

[SwirlyE30]

Well after seeing the 'Most Powerfull 2.5' thread i felt a bit left out, so thought id do a similar thing for the 4 pot guys.

Ive got a standard 1.8 at the moment but hope to have another 8 valves soon And it would be nice to know whats do'able, affordable,and worth it in terms of engine mods to M10, M40 and M42 motors.


I also thought, seeing as people bore their 2.5's out to 2.7 and do similar conversions, is it possible to do a similar thing on the IS,and try to achieve say a 2 liter 16v motor, or will that just not work on that engine?


Ive heard some figures going up to 170bhp (had to edit that, i acidently put 1780bhp .....if only ) for the is ,so it would be nice to see what people have done to theirs and what can be done



(Cue Demlot......)

[astondg]

Well if 4 pot includes the S14, especially in 2.5L race form, I think you have most of the 6 pots covered.

Aston

[Turbo-Brown]

Didn't BMW get 1400bhp out of the 4pot motors in turbocharged F1 qualifying trim?

[CaesarBob]

Think the most tuneable 4 pot has got to be the M10. There was an E30 racer featured in TBMW a couple of years ago that was running a 1.8 M10 with about 200bhp. Probably not much use on the road tho. You've also got the 2002 Turbo which gave 170bhp in standard trim ... and loads of lag.

Not heard much about the M40, but i think ported heads are available to give a bit of extra power. Can't remember exact numbers tho.

Then the M42, which can be quite expensive to mod. Hartge used to offer a 160bhp conversion which was badged an H21 i think. Capacity was upped to 2.1l and cost a small fortune for a 24bhp increase. There are cams and throttle bodies available but never heard power figures for these. Then your into the realms of turbos and superchargers.

[M5pilot]

The 160bhp Hartge conversion is still available. It costs Ԛ£2040 + VAT and is still a 1.8

I think they do extensive head work, cams, remapping etc etc.

The 2.1 conversion from what I know was only available for the E36 cars and made around 190bhp. There was also a 2.3 version for the E36 which made over 200 bhp.

The cheapest way for a 4 pot lover to have 200+ bhp 4 pot heaven is an S14 engine. The 2.3's are capable of making 240bhp without going mad.

No amount of 2.7 trickery will come near them unless turbocharging comes into it.

[Rosc0PColtrane]

take a look at and have a chat with www.fritzbitz.co.uk Think thats the right link.

Very useful people, not used them myself but known people who have.

Based in Wellington, somerset

[Geeman]

The 2.0 litre S14 makes 190bhp in standard trim. Stick a chip (or a re-map) and some cams in that and you'll have a few more horses under there.

[Pal318is]

I know of one place that does specific upgrades for the is....one of them being to bore out the 1.8 to a 2ltr 16v jobbie, but it's well expensive well over 3000squids....They do other upgrades, but for the life of me I can't remember the name of the website

Will have another look....I've spoken to the guy from Fritz Bitz and I can definately say that he know's his s*it about the 318is

[SwirlyE30]

Woo, seems like the IS can be pricey to mod then! Im quite suprised actually, that Hartge charge so much,for what seems like only a smallish batch more bhp.Im sure its a lot better, but all that for 24 bhp.



What sort of stuff can be done within normal budgets? Do the common things like TBs help open them up a little bit?

[Adam318i]

Yea, i'd like to know whats possible from them aswell.

Its a 1.8i M40

I've got a Scorpoin S/S half system on it at the mo,

so say stock figures are a true 115, what would i be looking at with a BBTB and chip, and extra flow of the exhuast.

120-125 bhp?

Adam

[hoshy]

I think the m40 is quite low compression so a head skim would be an option I think.

That's pure speculation but I'm sure somebody here could put me/us right.

does anybody have any general info on head skiming. cost, concerns, improvments an all.

ashley -- biggin' it up for the 4 pot massiv

[Geeman]

Swirly... on my track car, which is a 318iS, I've got a BBTB, K&N induction, Viper chip and a stainless exhaust with a box taken out.

She screams now, but I have no idea what bhp figures it's got.

[M5pilot]

Fritz Bitz.......arent these the guys that say their 6 branch manifolds add 10bhp onto a 325i without any other mods? Ive heard some very nasty things about the way they build heads aswell.

[Dom]

www.tdi-plc.com

With the bbtb, decat and panel filter I'd imagine I'm running 150bhp, give or take 5 ish?

My engine has 170k on it though else I'd be considering tuning it further.

[SwirlyE30]

Geeman.Yeh thats a similar setup to what i want to try and do. Im hopefully gonna get a full stainless exhuast, Viper2/Zone Chip, BBTB,Nice induction kit,not just a cheap chav air filter.

And an LSD if i can get one.


Would you say all of that plus an LSD would make a driftable motor ? I recon it shouldnt be too bad to try and get about 160bhp from the is,but it would be pretty sweet if i could get somthing like that.

Thing is, i wanted an IS because of the insurance and petrol (im only 17, 18 in september) but i checked and a sport is only 500 quid more expensive a year insurance wise than an is (im not even going to tell you the actual price!! But i dont mind paying it lol)


But if i can get some reasonably good figures from the IS then id be very happy staying 4 pot!!

Dom, just looked at that site mate! They seem to do quite a lot for the IS. Although the 2 liter conversion is 4.5 fitted and tuned!!! Surely theres gota be a cheaper way lol

[Geeman]

For considerably less than Ԛ£4500 (more like Ԛ£450) I know a guy that can source a complete 2.3 S14 engine, box and loom from Italy. Met him at the local BMWCC meet last month...

Was very interesting.

[SwirlyE30]

Mmmmm S14 engine would be sweet. Although i dont know if i could get insured on that

[6potWil6pot]

Insurance is the main killer, id just wait around if i was 18 again. Just chill a few years until your 21 unless you can find some really cheap insurance somewhere.
I feel ripped off paying such huge prices for insurance it nowhere near reflects what ive gotten out of it

[SwirlyE30]

Yeh thats the hting mate, insurance for young drivers is such a killer.
Im prepared to pay out a bit if i get an IS as i want to start my own policy anyway,but when they want more than the cars worth it does make you wonder

But i see it like this, i dont drink (well not much lol),dont smoke, dont go out much,so the 50 odd quid a week people pay to go to a few bars and on fags,ill happily pay on my motor for the insurance.

[6potWil6pot]

Yeah i was in the same position as you were when i was ur age
Now that im older (still only 22!) im downsizing cause ive been there and done it

[Demlotcrew]

The 160bhp Hartge conversion is still available. It costs Ԛ£2040 + VAT and is still a 1.8

I think they do extensive head work, cams, remapping etc etc.

Its not BTW.

[SwirlyE30]

Just looked on their site and saw

Engine H3-1.8 160hp Conversion
Application : 318is M42
Installation cost : Ԛ£784.80
Parts cost : Ԛ£1,255.49




Thats not too bad i guess

[Adam318i]

um, yes, so that equals Ԛ£2,040

[hoshy]

Just looked on their site and saw

Engine H3-1.8 160hp Conversion
Application : 318is M42
Installation cost : Ԛ£784.80
Parts cost : Ԛ£1,255.49




Thats not too bad i guess

bugger that. stick with the supercharger idea mate. cheaper, cooler and more powerful. insurance wise it's also unlikely to be much different.

I reckon you can do the supercharger as discussed on the other thread for under a grand. The grand you save from the hartage upgrade would easily offset the insurance cost. Plus you have the option to upgrade the supercharger system later on for even more power. bigger blower, different type of blower... intercoolers.

Just a novie estimation but I think you could superchage one to 200bhp if you really thought about it. And being a supercharger you've got none of that nasty turbo lag.

/rant off .. I'm just too excited about my own project

[Turbo-Brown]

How powerful is the 1.8 in the first place?

[hoshy]

iirc 115 for the 1796

I was basing my extreme 200bhp estimate on on the fact that the nissan s14 engine gets it with a turbo.

[Zayyan]

I'm sure someone mentioned on the old forum that the M40 can be bored out to 2.05 litres for very little money, I'll have to go look

EDIT: Anyone know the address?

[astondg]

The 2.0 litre S14 makes 190bhp in standard trim. Stick a chip (or a re-map) and some cams in that and you'll have a few more horses under there.

What car was the 2.0L S14 in?

Aston

[Geeman]

The Italian / Portugese 320iS - 190bhp as standard. I had one. Brilliant!

[hoshy]

I'm sure someone mentioned on the old forum that the M40 can be bored out to 2.05 litres for very little money, I'll have to go look

EDIT: Anyone know the address?

now that sounds cool

[Zayyan]

It sure does....still don't have the link to the old forum to have a look though

Would've thought it'd be a sticky in E30 Chat or something

[Simon13]

The M40 is pants, always has been. Throw it in the bin. I had 318i M40 when i was 18, for 18months and realised this early on, and left it standard. I just waited until i could get a 318is.

The only ones worth bothering with are M42 or M10, both are chain driven for a start, and don't tap like a bitch either.

M10 is cheaper to do, speak to Si316 who has build a 2 litre beast.

If you have read Demlotcrew's posts u will know about how much difficulty he is going through trying to find the right people to get the ponies from his M42.

Not trying to be rude, just saying it how i see it.

2 grand insurance on an iS is stupid, wait till u have 1 NCB's Sam!

[c76jon]

hi all

heres avideo of a m3 a dolate car
s14 obviously but 2.8 and supposed to be approx 420hp and naturally aspirated

listen to it
it gives me the pot noodle horn!!!
credit to m3rags for video!!

john

http://www.rennfotos.de/videos/dolate-b ... eutgen.mpg

[Pal318is]

www.tdi-plc.com

With the bbtb, decat and panel filter I'd imagine I'm running 150bhp, give or take 5 ish?

My engine has 170k on it though else I'd be considering tuning it further.

This is the place I was on about earlier guys....Cheers Dom

Thought you would have been able to get more than 170bhp for nearly Ԛ£4000

[Zayyan]

Ah maybe it was M10 2-litre conversion I was talking about

Not entirely sure though, and can't find anything on the old forum about is as it deletes older threads

Gotta agree the M40's a bit pants, due to the tappets driving me mad at the moment