M50 Developments - considering an M50? Read this.

[randomdave325]

hello people. it's been a while. hope you are all ok. in my time away i have finally got round to fitting a m50 lump. i sold my hartge lump to fund the project but so far all is going well. the problem it having is with the exhaust manifold clearing the steering column. i've got e34 cast manifolds and there is no way they are gonna fit. so wondered what everyone else on here is using? gonna have a look at an e36 manifold and see if they are any different and hope that fits (along with the gear linkage!). i'm using e36 alloy engine mounts e34 rubber mounts and e30 gearbox mounts and it all sits in there nicely. just a bit loud with no manifold. or useless with no steering! pictures would be helpful but any help would be appreciated. cheers

[6potWil6pot]

Mine has a custom manifold knocked up!

[randomdave325]

. nice one m8. that was on it! isn't that an later e36 manifold? i'm sure they use tubular manifolds. looks a bit factory like it has been modificated on one branch but that could be due to cracking? fits sweet tho. better than mine. i bet it sounds sweet with an exhaust

[Andy325i]

Hi mate, I'm doing my M52 next week all being well, someone suggested that I cut an inch or so out of the manifold to make it fit, think this will work as I have the later steel maifold as opposed to the M50 cast one. Only time will tell.

what brake servo/ inlet manifold are you using?


kind regards


Andy

[6potWil6pot]

Yeah a 2 and 4 manifold split makes the exhaust note "very" fruity!

[randomdave325]

i'm using the 325 manifold (bigger than the 328) andi used a mk2 golf servo which fitted spot on. i had to use a spacer (10mm of 8mm bar ) in the master cylinder as the rod in the servo wasn't long enough but fitted perfectly and feels spot on. and looks like its factory obviously with no manifold you can't tell how it's like on the road but should be fine.i'm of the opinion, i built it . i'll press the pedal harder if needed. i've since learnt that a renault 19 16v servo fits without the spacer but won't know for sure till thursday when i get to go play with it again.

[randomdave325]

Yeah a 2 and 4 manifold split makes the exhaust note "very" fruity!

ahh i see what you mean now. that is sneaky. i like that. that looks like that could be the plan. i dont mind cutting and welding pipes but i have to draw the line at re-casting. whats everyone else using?

[randomdave325]

nice one . my cars at my parents in their garage atm. it's never had it so good. i'm workin 24hr till thursday mornin now so won't get to look at it till then so no hurry. got no internet access at home so will have a look then.
thanks for that will. much appreciated. has anyone else done the conversion? pics would be nice. might stop me thinking about it way too much over the next few days anyway

[Brianmoooore]

I've used the same engine and gearbox mountings as you, so my engine should be in the same place.
For the exhaust manifolds, I used a standard cast E36 rear manifold and a cast E36 front manifold with the section between where the three primaries meet and the flange removed and welded together.
Then, by chopping up the front pipes of an E36 system and a 325 E30 system and welding the bits together, I connected to the standard 325 E30 system just in front of the gearbox exhaust mount.
While picking up a car from a yard dealing in write-offs a while ago, I had a look at a late 5 series, with probably a M52, and that had a tubular manifold, which would probably be a better bet.

[randomdave325]

10 out of 10 for modificating there brian. ihad to read it a few times to picture it but see what you mean.i think tubular is the way to go as easier to weld and bend than cast but fair shout. i like it.
nikis 96 323 has a tubular manifold. i'll have to find one. i'll check out the m3 evo i found the other day as that is bound to have one (if it'll fit and is not to bent) tho it didn't have a 6 spd box i found out after spending ages straightening the linkage
that was my plan to overcome the gearing. gonna have to change the diff now. 3.25 to 1 is the one i have in my head is that right?
even more expense! you can't pay for smiles i s'pose

[Brianmoooore]

I just fitted a 3.07 diff from a E28 525e I found in my favourite scrapyard. Cost me about Ԛ£5. Need to swap the output shafts and rear cover with the E30 items.
Same yard also came up with a seven series straight six air filter box as well, which I've fitted in about three weeks ago.

[Andy325i]

i'm using the 325 manifold (bigger than the 328) andi used a mk2 golf servo which fitted spot on. i had to use a spacer (10mm of 8mm bar ) in the master cylinder as the rod in the servo wasn't long enough but fitted perfectly and feels spot on. and looks like its factory obviously with no manifold you can't tell how it's like on the road but should be fine.i'm of the opinion, i built it . i'll press the pedal harder if needed. i've since learnt that a renault 19 16v servo fits without the spacer but won't know for sure till thursday when i get to go play with it again.

I did hear the M52 Inlet was very restricted but better shaped for an E30 apprently.

Are you planning on trying the R19 16V Master cylinder dude? Looks a lot cheaper than the Porsche 944 one on the Euro website

[6potWil6pot]

Theres probably no one whos tried both but id bank on the Porsche one being stronger than the Renault one.

The brakes on mine do feel good, one of the better parts of the car infact!

[randomdave325]

Are you planning on trying the R19 16V Master cylinder dude? Looks a lot cheaper than the Porsche 944 one on the Euro website
_________________

hello again. looked into the renault 19 servo idea and unless the 16v is different you still have to use a spacer. checking a 16v on thursday but until then stick with the golf idea. renault, porsche,vw. makes no difference. they're all made by ate anyway. as is the genuine bmw one. so should be no probs with quality whichever manufacturers name is on it. 328's use a 320 head and manifold as do the 323's to restrict them. who wants that when you're moddin? get a 325 head and manifold on it. u know it makes sence. got next week off now to allow for my manifold developments so she should be sorted by friday. i'll let you know exactly whats involved when it's finished. my current hack is for sale then. an e34 535 manual if anyone wants it. the ultimate drift machine. lol

[Andy325i]

328's use a 320 head and manifold as do the 323's to restrict them. who wants that when you're moddin? get a 325 head and manifold on it. u know it makes sence.

hi mate, am I reading this right? lol!!!!!

Are the M52 inlet manifold ports longer than the M50 ones?

Isn't this what BMW did on the Eta M20 to help with more torque and less bhp?

I guess a M50 320 head would have smaller ports than the M50 2.5?


What power do you think I could see with a 2.5 head, inlet manifold and induction kit?

I think the M52 2.8 is 193BHP/207lb of torque

I wonder if the S50 or S52 inlet manifolds could be made to fit

What airfilter setup/induction kit etc are you guys using?


I think we should have our own 24 valve forum in the Zone forums lol

What flywheel/cluch setup are you using?

I think I will go with the M52 Dual Mass to start with and see how that goes

Andy

[Jhonno]

the heads arent 320 afaik - just the inlets.. some nice gains to be had with a 2.5 inlet/chip

[Chaos]

Hi mate, I'm doing my M52 next week all being well

whats the weight difference between m20 and m50 and m52 ?

[Jhonno]

m20 - 117kg

m50 - 138kg

m52 - 118kg

[Chaos]

m20 - 117kg

m50 - 138kg

m52 - 118kg

as i thought.
when its my turn i def want an M52 bottom end.

[Jhonno]

good luck finding one lol

im having enough trouble finding a complete lump.. everytime i do it disappears!!

[Chaos]

ive been having weird hybrid ideas

m52 bottom end with an S50 head.

dunno if or how it wud all mate up mind u.


nice engine in theory tho

[Jhonno]

328 lump with m3 cams would be v similar and i know that goes

[Chaos]

ive been having weird hybrid ideas but wondered bout the weights for ages - well worth doing to keep standard ish weight over front end

m52 bottom end with an S50 head.

dunno if or how it wud all mate up mind u.


nice engine in theory tho

[Andy325i]

328 lump with m3 cams would be v similar and i know that goes

Have heard this is a good mod. I'm guessing S50 cams for this? Single vanos?

[ian332isport]

328 lump with m3 cams would be v similar and i know that goes

Have heard this is a good mod. I'm guessing S50 cams for this? Single vanos?

I think you will find this is with reference to US spec M3 cams. I'm not sure if Euro spec M3 cams would work.

Ian.

[Chaos]

wud the s50 head mate up to the m52 block ?

[ian332isport]

wud the s50 head mate up to the m52 block ?

I just checked the ETK, and the head gaskets are totally different, so it looks like it won't work

Ian.

[Andy325i]

This was on flea bay a while back:

The main difference between the 325 and 328 inlet is the plastic manifold and the size
of the ports in it. This manifold is 10mm greater (width) in port size over the
standard 328. the 325 has 55x25mm port's and the 328 has 45x25mm port size.


Ian, what rubber engine mounts are you using?

[ian332isport]

Ian, what rubber engine mounts are you using?

Andy,

I'm using E28 M5 rubber mounts (same as 635 I believe).

Ian.

[Chaos]

wud the s50 head mate up to the m52 block ?

I just checked the ETK, and the head gaskets are totally different, so it looks like it won't work

Ian.

what about m52 bottom end to s52 head ?

i need a copy of the ETK i think

[ian332isport]

what about m52 bottom end to s52 head ?

S52 is an American thing, and is basically the same as the M52 with lumpy cams and more capacity. We never got them over here - which is nice

Both of the Euro spec (UK spec) M3 engines (3L and 3.2 Evo), are S50 (S50B30 & S50B32). Neither of these heads will fit on the M50 or M52 bottom ends.

Ian.

[Chaos]

what about m52 bottom end to s52 head ?

S52 is an American thing, and is basically the same as the M52 with lumpy cams and more capacity. We never got them over here - which is nice

Both of the Euro spec (UK spec) M3 engines (3L and 3.2 Evo), are S50 (S50B30 & S50B32). Neither of these heads will fit on the M50 or M52 bottom ends.

Ian.

oh well, back to the drawing board then i guess.

cheers for ur help ian

[Andy325i]

will order them today cheers mate, are they stright on or did you use a spacer under one? The zionsville cd suggest this but not heard of anyone else doing it.

Just checked the prices on the ECP website, does this sound right for the prices

These are for a 1987 E28 M5

L/H: 337110070 14.50 pounds
R/H: 337110500 38.47 Pounds

Is the l/h a lot smaller than the right hand?


Kind regards

Andy

[randomdave325]

jusy checked the renault servo idea and it was all porkie pies. would fit but it all stems back to putting a spacer in. tho whist i was sat in a pile of servos earlier i found a porsche 944 one that looks well up for the job. Ԛ£30 bargain. the shaft to the pedal linkage looks a bit longer but i'm confident it can be taken up with adjustment. i found a 328 earlier if anyone wants the engine i can enquire about price etc. you will need an e34 sump and oil pump but i guess you knew that already. start manifold tommorow. should be fun. can't wait tho. after thats done only got a few wires left over which not sure if i need and mount ecu. p/s reservoir etc. i've taken pics of it all so can get them on when it's done. ref m3 head. will not fit unfortunatly. already thought of that as was loving the throttle body idea. but looks nice as it is and i couldn't afford to run it (thats what i keep telling my self anyway)

[ian332isport]

will order them today cheers mate, are they stright on or did you use a spacer under one? The zionsville cd suggest this but not heard of anyone else doing it.

Just checked the prices on the ECP website, does this sound right for the prices

These are for a 1987 E28 M5

L/H: 337110070 14.50 pounds
R/H: 337110500 38.47 Pounds

Is the l/h a lot smaller than the right hand?


Kind regards

Andy

Hi Andy,

Mine went straight on - no spacers. You need to grind off the little locating tab to allow them to sit correctly. Oh, and they go in the outer set of holes on the crossmember (standard E30 mounts use the inner set).

I would say you have the wrong part numbers there. I used these:

11 81 1 128 932 - Left - approx Ԛ£18
11 81 2 225 201 - Right - approx Ԛ£28

You can see what they look like in this picture:



Ian.