Slain by fiat punto gt (me in standard 325i sport) - normal?

[Barx325i]

Here we go M'Boy!


"Congratulations Mrs Smegma, you've won a Leyland Princess"
"But I wanted the lawnmower"
"Sorry Love, that's first prize"

LOL ABSOLUTLY SPOT ON !! cheers andy will cherish the picture for along time to come new sig pic to lol hope all is well

I had the pleasure of driving an austin ambassador once - what a timeless tank that was then the bonnet flipped up & smashed the windscreen - scarier than the first unwanted sideways in the 325i

[oakey]

Tristan - You had a Scirocco too!? I had a 1980 GLi (The Karmann built Mark 1 - pretty little thing but what a rust heap) and a C plate GTX which was the 1800 8v K Jet engine.

Yup she's on Ebay at the moment. A 1988 final edition GTX. Up to about £500 this morning It's cost me nearly £800 to get it back on the road. But I did out of love and to save what is a very underrated car. Looks like it's going to a true enthusiast so I'm happy.

i love sciroccos too. especially the mark1. there was a really nice g60 powered one for sale on pistonheads a while ago. it was lurvely.

[tristan325]

^^^^^^I've seen that car in the flesh! It's fookin awesome!!!!!

[tim-ix]

Another ex Scirocco owner here. I had a Mk1 Storm in metallic brown (the only fair description) with beige leather interior. What a 70s spec! Also had a Mk2 GT but that wasn't nearly as pretty as the Mk1.

The E36 build quality was bad for the first 6 months or so, especially interiors. This initial impression was widely reported at the time and the image stuck. BMW shot themselves in the foot really, they should have built more pre-production prototypes and got the trim issues sorted out before launch.

Does anyone else think it's a little juvenile to get upset with those who don't agree that the E36 is better than the E30 when this is the E30 Zone? If I went on apples.com and told them they should all be orange fans instead they'd probably not agree with me and I wouldn't berate them for it. Just a thought.

[H35-IAN]

yep theyre not as bad as the old austins , rovers of the day lol atleast they were built right lol

glad we got some good humour here now! nice to see some good lads posting up and no one just getting all frigid! lol

in my eyes this life cannot be taken seriously in ways obviously u have to but in others you just dont lol

[Andyboy]

Well, my E36 was built in July 1991 making it one of the oldest. The driver's seat was still unworn (but grubby), the glovebox lid closing okay and yes, the top of the door trim on the driver's door was pulling off it's clips. But it's a 16 year old car and no, it's not rusty anywhere.

I did in fact buy DaveNoTouring's moollahed M Plate 316i. A 12 year old 110'000 mile car, trim like new which is why it's now in mine.
But as Dave will testify, an M plate 110'000 car with mint trim and no rust is very well built.

I remember those Scirocco Storms and the metallic brown. My GLi was a metallic red on a W plate. I was rebuilding a T plate Golf GLI Cabrio* and needed an engine so armed with an E28 520i and a 15ft Brian James trailer went from Oxford to Somerset to collect it. It drove so well I felt bad breaking it up (I used it for a few weeks) but it was pretty rotten. The Mark 1's were all built by Karmann but the uglier Mark 2 was built by VW. If only they'd done it the other way round!

Oh God, the Austin Ambastardor - what a pile of crap that was. How to take an oddball but very distinctive bit of styling and utterly ruin it. Same headlights as the Ital *cough*cough* and they were nearly all beige with orangy brown trim. Vile.

*Treseme Special Edition.

[M5pilot]

I never liked the early E36's myself because the of the rumoured bad build quality - which I have to admit I just read about and never experienced.

I also thought they were soulless under engineering pieces of shit until a couple of years ago. Then, the more I drove the more these cars surprised me. I tried very hard to hate them and pick out problems because I was and still am a die hard E30 fan. But......the more you drive them the more you realise that it is far from soul less and lacking in driveability. The build quality is better than an E30. The more powerful 6Cyl cars with standard sports suspension are fantastic drivers cars.

328i Sports are not an ugly creation in my opinion, it's no E30 sport but it's still a nice looking car with it's M3 styling and split rim alloys and very comfortable seats.

A 328i is quicker than most 2.7's especially when modified.

As far as which car is more fun, the E36 is far more fun closer to it's limits which are higher than the limits of an E30. The suspension on the E36 is in a different league which leads to far better handling and balance.

The other thing I don't understand is why people are slagging off another BMW? The E36 is a brilliant car. Over on e36coupe.com people do not slag off E30's Most of them actualy appreciate them and some of them even own an E30.
Fine, the E36 may not be the best car in the world but then the E30 isn't either. Every model has it's good points and bad points.

Alot of people on e36coupe know about this thread but won't post on here defending their E36's. You know why? Well, I'll leave that to you to work out.

[Andyboy]

Couldn't have put it better myself Sal. The whole argument from the anti- E36 bores reminds me of the Judean People's Front bit in Life Of Brian.

[oakey]

no-one has really atteacked e36s on this thread. just given theyre opinion on the cars. it seems to me you e36 lovers have got a bit over defensive!
lol

[Jhonno]

they have imo, they've called them crap badly built etc

[oakey]

no-ones said there badly built?

[Ziggy]

Splitters.

[DanThe]

The E36 electric window motor and regulator is an unadulterated piece of shit with no place on a Vauxhall, really cheap and nasty and they never got any better. I've had plenty of aggro with them.

Its so shite they couldnt even be bothered to fix it in properly!
I bet your a dab hand at drilling the rivets out Andy

Even the one in my sig is fooked

If you want to talk about rust ive recently replaced an accident damaged bootlid and bumper on a Rover 75 V6 heap, its on a 56 plate and the rear arch seams have already started to go

[OllieB]

There has been a lot of sense talked on this thread. Can I just say I am a BMW fan first and foremost, and love E30's to bits, but a lot of people on here are so f***ing blinkered about them that they start to sound like religious fanatics who have endured a severe brainwashing session at the hands of some hook handed maniac. I suspect there is also an element of sheep attitude here too, with the submissive following the trend that E30's should be resurrected as they are "The best car in the world. Ever." They simply aren't because they have chronic rot issues, are slow by todays standards, and don't have the tech to cut it anymore. Having said that, they are a LOT of fun, cheapish to buy and run, and I think every car enthusiast should have one (or at least have a good go in one) at some point. I do however think it is a bit sad when you devote your life to a car that stopped being produced 14yrs ago and say you will never drive anything else. That is just a bit gay.

[OllieB]

Also if you want to talk about rust then look at mercedes from the last ten years. There are thirty year old merc tanks with barely a hint of rot in them still cruising about, but I have seen ML's that needed replacement boots, bonnets and wings within TWO YEARS of manufacture. Now that is terrible.....

[jimson]

I used to have a punto, good for a 1400, but run out of puff about 120, my standard 325 is faster in every situation and a lot more relaxed. The fiats tune up quite easily, but they wont be going after 200,000 miles.
I changed my plugs and run it only on 97-99 octane, and it makes a real diference on the gas analysor (engine more efficient) do this with a decent panel filter in your airbox for a good few miles before you take more drastic measures for performance.

[OllieB]

Three of my mates were fiat master techs for about 20 odd years between them. Those tiny little turbo engines are so good because they are so basic. You can take a standard one running 0.4 bar of boost, bang a bleed valve onto it and wang it right up to 1.5 bar and rag it around. Soon, the headgasket will go, so you replace it, which takes approx 27secs. Then you rag round some more until the gasket goes again. Repeat until turbo fails, replace turbo and continue. It also helps that the uno's weigh about as much as a damp sock too, they are seriously good fun, bang for buck. Would consider buying another rusty sh*t one to thrash for a month or so, guaranteed it would be a lot more fun than your equivalent rusty E30 packing some weezy M40 power........

[jimson]

O yeah, IMO, ive driven lots of e30 and e36 cars, ive driven an e36 and thought it was total crap, then you get in another e36, and its totaly different, ive worked on early ones that are mint, there was an R reg one in today with a really rotten boot lid, This also seems to be the case with e30 and the Z3 cars. if you drive a car and thimk its crap, try another one,

sometimes its the ropey looking ones that drive the best though.
also,if its been thrashed from day one, they might not last as long, but the differences in power can be surprising.

[datonyb]

i think were missing the point here


ford mondeos are the greatest cars ever!


tony grabs his coat and runs very fast >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[M5pilot]

There are so many factors which can make a car drive shit. Drive an E36 which needs bottom arm balljoints and a set of shockers and it will feel very vague and inspire zero confidence.
Even something as simple as a slack throttle can make a big difference to the way a car feels.

[evostormm]

[quote="tristan325"]
'' I have actually owned and driven both, so I guess I can honestly have an opinion on the subject. The E36 handles better than the E30 end of. The E30 in "MY OPINION" and that is a key point there, it's my opinion and NOT a fact, is more fun to drive. But I also like driving my Scirocco and god knows there ain't much love for them.''

Tristan, I don't reckon it's so much a lack of love for the Scirocco but a lack of parts. VW has never been interested in supporting these older models. I had a Mk 1 Storm (Schwarz) for about 12 years that did finally fall victim to rust. Designed by an Italian. Rust proofing measures apparently by an Italian too. An absolutely fantastic car to drive though. Even when the car was relatively young VW demanded crazy prices for body panels (£400 for a door skin, not even the whole door, in 1986!) and trim parts. In comparison the E30 (and other older models) has been much better supported by BMW making running one a viable proposition.

[Cotty]

The other thing I don't understand is why people are slagging off another BMW? The E36 is a brilliant car. Over on e36coupe.com people do not slag off E30's Most of them actualy appreciate them and some of them even own an E30.
Fine, the E36 may not be the best car in the world but then the E30 isn't either. Every model has it's good points and bad points.

Alot of people on e36coupe know about this thread but won't post on here defending their E36's. You know why? Well, I'll leave that to you to work out.

Im not keen on the E36, couldn't put my finger on why, same way as I prefer tomato ketchup to brown sauce. Prefer TVR T350 opposed to Tuscan, white bread opposed to brown. People like or dislike things on a whim. I would not put down an E36 and hope the opposite is true.

Perhaps this thread wold be better continued on the "Other BMW Chat" section or even on www.e36coupe.com as this an E30 forum. I would not go to an E36 forum to talk about E30's

[tristan325]

The whole argument from the anti- E36 bores reminds me of the Judean People's Front bit in Life Of Brian

F@~k off! we're the peoples front of Judea.

[Andyboy]

There are so many factors which can make a car drive shit. Drive an E36 which needs bottom arm balljoints and a set of shockers and it will feel very vague and inspire zero confidence.

That'll be 96% of them then! Every E36 I have ever had needed front lower balljoints - even the 34'000 miler I had last week needed them changing because the rubber sleeve fails. You never get a knock from the front but the steering goes all vague.
You should have driven that 316i I had with 34k. On the drive there it would be deflected by the smallest bump and the steering felt odd. On the way back, different car, really tight.

Yes, I'm used to drilling those b*****d rivets out - and By God they're tough. You need the batteries in the old cordless to be fully charged! The problem is normally that the adjustment on the rear arm has slipped but often if they've been used like this for a while a stress crack develops and need welding.

Ollie - good point about Mercs. They are the biggest load of shit on the road at the mo, I've seen so many rotten S-T-V plate E Classes and even a 51 plate CLK with rusty bits breaking out all over.
Dunno about the old ones though - I looked at 3-4 W107 SL's at the weekend and they all had rust issues - but they ARE an old car now so can be forgiven. It's a fact that vault manufacturers still use the W123 door as inspiration...........

[M5pilot]

Mine has brand new ball joints....

[Cotty]

Mine has brand new ball joints....

I would not expect anything less

[jamesh1977]

ive owned 2 e36 bmws both had f***ed door trims not going to slate them completely as there not the worst cars on the road and lets face it there still bmws .... my mate rik has got an l reg 318ise and ive driven it on a few ocassions and lets be honest it does drive nice its got the usall trim problem on the front doors and ive just put springs / shocks and bushes on it all round and being honest it fells tight ( had it sideways round a roundabout at 65mph ) but lets be honest will i give up my e30 325i to buy one








dont think so not in this life time
not saying i wouldnt own anouther one but i just wouldnt part with my e30 to get it as at the end of the day i like my old school e30 where as rik likes his e36 .. everyone to there own

[munky30]

e36's are chav.

e30's are the best cars ever made.

Where's the argument? With solid facts like the two I just stated (Google told me so), I dont see why there's such a debate.

[e36boy]

e36's are chav.

e30's are the best cars ever made.

Where's the argument? With solid facts like the two I just stated (Google told me so), I dont see why there's such a debate.

There are plenty of chav e30's about to my friend......For example i drove home from my girlfriends council estate earlier this evening in my e30 325i sport with my window down with NWA on full blast from the stereo and i was wearing my hoodie up.....Oh and i had my seat reclined and one arm on the steering wheel

Doesnt get much more council than that

[Gouki]

e36's are chav.

e30's are the best cars ever made.

Where's the argument? With solid facts like the two I just stated (Google told me so), I dont see why there's such a debate.

There are plenty of chav e30's about to my friend......For example i drove home from my girlfriends council estate earlier this evening in my e30 325i sport with my window down with NWA on full blast from the stereo and i was wearing my hoodie up.....Oh and i had my seat reclined and one arm on the steering wheel

Doesnt get much more council than that

now thats pimping for shizzle, nizzle!

[munky30]

I was very close to buying one a while back. But one day at a zebra crossing, 3 cars waited for me to cross... ALL e36's. One with a mahoooosive alloy wing on it, and nothing else, one with lexarse lights and nothing else. and one in bile yellow with a badboy bonnet....

I bought a mazda xedos 6 instead...

I'm just stirring tbh, I'm a firm believer that, with time, technology advances and so am sure e36's are better than e30's in many, if not all ways. But personally I love the design and history of the e30 and always have. I do however freely admit that clouds my judgement.

[e36boy]

e36's are chav.

e30's are the best cars ever made.

Where's the argument? With solid facts like the two I just stated (Google told me so), I dont see why there's such a debate.

There are plenty of chav e30's about to my friend......For example i drove home from my girlfriends council estate earlier this evening in my e30 325i sport with my window down with NWA on full blast from the stereo and i was wearing my hoodie up.....Oh and i had my seat reclined and one arm on the steering wheel

Doesnt get much more council than that

now thats pimping for shizzle, nizzle!

WORD !!!!!!

There was even a big fire going on complete with fire engines and police and loads of pikey kids hanging around to complete the moody back drop.

[munky30]

Someone earlier mentioned that the 30 went through the same phase that it seems e36's are going through now. IE they are opwned by normal everyday 'joes' and chavs after a good cheap car with a bit of cred... but like the e30, one day they will be appreciated and looked after/modified in a way that befits their heritage...

Dont get me wrong... I just love all bmw's except the latest (fat) ones... but even they are growing on me.

I'm just adding fuel to the fire that is this topic.

[e36boy]

Someone earlier mentioned that the 30 went through the same phase that it seems e36's are going through now. IE they are opwned by normal everyday 'joes' and chavs after a good cheap car with a bit of cred... but like the e30, one day they will be appreciated and looked after/modified in a way that befits their heritage...

Dont get me wrong... I just love all bmw's except the latest (fat) ones... but even they are growing on me.

I'm just adding fuel to the fire that is this topic.

Yes mate, The e46 is slowly starting to creep into the hands of the chavs aswell now and it wont be long until we see some absolute turds of them knocking about aswell.

[munky30]

yup, seems its just the natural cycle of car ownership/modifying.

Once they reach sub 3k prices they become available to the style unconscious masses and its inevitable that most of these numptys will trash them with nasty styling... but eventually it will settle.

I've seen some nasty e46's in my brief foray into the 'showcar' scene with my last car. Its an absolute travesty what some people think makes a car looks good and put me off that scene for life. The 'enthusiasts' are much more to my liking, as much as I hate the term OEM+ it is definitely the way to go when styling cars.