Stroker Kits

[E30sixpot]

My engine is now showing signs of wear, so I'm toying with afew ideas to put abit of life back into it.
What I would like to know is are these conversions a worthwhile and financially viable option.
Is there any noticable difference (on the road) between 2.7's and 2.8's?.
As I have also seen 3.0L stroker kits available in the US, and thats with a +1mm re-bore and over sized pistons. However, that uses a completly different crank not the eta / diesel item. Claimed power for the 3.0L kit is approx 240bhp at a cost of $2495.
Could the M20 block be bored out even more than 1mm to improve power further?
The idea behind doing this conversion opposed to an engine swap is trying to maintain a "standard-ish" looking engine bay, whilst improving power.

Any advice or info is much apprieciated

[Jimbob]

I'm in the process of doing a 2.7 which hopefully will be done in a month.
I'm not sure on the difference in 2.7 and 2.8, however E30Adam and his 2.8 will soon have me and my 2.7 to play with

My current calculations (well they're Adam's but they're for me!) are around the Ԛ£1k mark for a proper job, minus the labour charges you may incur.

However that includes acquiring the 325 and 525 engines.

[E30sixpot]

What I found appealing was the figures quoted for the 3.0 and the currant exchange rates to buy from the US.

How do any of these stroker kits perform on the road in real terms, instead of numbers being printed of a dyno?. Is there a significant difference between 2.5's and stroked M20.

This is a quote from the US website:-
Turn the 2.5 liter 325i (m20)motor into a 3.0 liter for performance similar an E36 M3. The additional torque allows the engine to pull strongly below 3000 rpm. Kit includes crank shaft, light weight forged Pistons, piston rings, high strength wrist pins, and main bearings. You use your factory "i" rods, head, and fuel injection.

This is a quote from an e-mail:-
You may get 250 but I would guess 240 is more likely. More can be had with a programable fuel injection.

Too good to be true?

[E30sixpot]

Q007 has just had his engine built to 2.7 spec from bexleys at a cost of Ԛ£1660 + cost of 2nd hand engine.

3.0 kits are great aswell but ive never seen them produce 240bhp unless loads of money has been spent tuning them.

A good high compression 2.7 is the way to go and it will produce good results without the need to go down mad tuning. You should see 200bhp.

I assume Bexleys provide the eta crank and I supply either my knackered, or another M20 engine?. How long does it normally take to do?

[Sjoerd320i]

Have a look here

https://secure5.nexternal.com/shared/St ... tegoryID=3

[MONSPORT42]

The standard 2.7 conversion is basically all about increasing torque. Mine's a Bexley engine originally built from my 2.3 and I've been running it and developing it for about 5 years.
(The technical article on the zone about the difference between torque and bhp is quite interesting).
You automatically increase bhp by the extra CCs.
The torque is available much earlier and for longer. The difference between 0-30 acceleration is awesome but because the engine is pushing a 'longer arm' the revs can be slower to rise. So to get the best out of it you need to improve the top end breathing in and out with induction, ignition, exhaust and engine management improvements to match the torque. Then you can then feel the power difference throughout the range. A sportier cam will improve the top end power but usually at the expense of losing it in the 'every day range'.
Motorway cruising is more relaxed. With my gearing I cruise at just below 90mph at 3000rpm, just below the cam coming on song. The real power comes in 3700 up to 6200rpm.
Hope this helps a bit.

[MONSPORT42]

The standard 2.7 conversion is basically all about increasing torque. Mine's a Bexley engine originally built from my 2.3 and I've been running it and developing it for about 5 years.
(The technical article on the zone about the difference between torque and bhp is quite interesting).
You automatically increase bhp by the extra CCs.
The torque is available much earlier and for longer. The difference between 0-30 acceleration is awesome but because the engine is pushing a 'longer arm' the revs can be slower to rise. So to get the best out of it you need to improve the top end breathing in and out with induction, ignition, exhaust and engine management improvements to match the torque. Then you can then feel the power difference throughout the range. A sportier cam will improve the top end power but usually at the expense of losing it in the 'every day range'.
Motorway cruising is more relaxed. With my gearing I cruise at just below 90mph at 3000rpm, just below the cam coming on song. The real power comes in 3700 up to 6200rpm.
Hope this helps a bit.

[MONSPORT42]

The standard 2.7 conversion is basically all about increasing torque. Mine's a Bexley engine originally built from my 2.3 and I've been running it and developing it for about 5 years.
(The technical article on the zone about the difference between torque and bhp is quite interesting).
You automatically increase bhp by the extra CCs.
The torque is available much earlier and for longer. The difference between 0-30 acceleration is awesome but because the engine is pushing a 'longer arm' the revs can be slower to rise. So to get the best out of it you need to improve the top end breathing in and out with induction, ignition, exhaust and engine management improvements to match the torque. Then you can then feel the power difference throughout the range. A sportier cam will improve the top end power but usually at the expense of losing it in the 'every day range'.
Motorway cruising is more relaxed. With my gearing I cruise at just below 90mph at 3000rpm, just below the cam coming on song. The real power comes in 3700 up to 6200rpm.
Hope this helps a bit.

[MONSPORT42]

Sorry for the duplication... my machine was telling me that the zone wasn't able to post so kept pressing the submit button!

[E30sixpot]

LOL....I started to read the second post and thought....This sounds abit familier!, and then onto the third and forth...lol

Your reply was very helpfull though and gave me abit of insight into the characteristics of the engine. I phoned Bexleys today and was quoted Ԛ£3500+vat for what would essentially be a completely new engine supplied and fitted, drive in drive out.

All I need to do now is compare overall costs from buying the 2.9/3.0L kit from the US, having my block machined and building it myself, or giving it to a local engine tuner to build for me.

[MONSPORT42]

Their prices have gone up some since I had mine done but I have spent a lot with them developing it since. Depends on what you will be having done. That price will include a complete re-map. Any head work? Gas -flowed, etc. They use all new genuine BMW parts as standard which adds up to quite a bit. They don't charge that much for labour considering their specialism.
Do-it-yourself is bound to be a lot cheaper.
I had to have mine done because I needed a new engine anyway so it wasn't a lot extra over the standard replacement.
I think mine has done about 100,000 now (50k in my 323 as standard and 50k in the Sport modded and tracked). Not to tempt fate, it's still rock solid and hopefully ready to do another 100k.

[E30sixpot]

As far as I know the Bexley's price didnt include any head work, however, I could be wrong. For the Ԛ£3500+vat price tag I could expect 200bhp and around 200lb ft of torque. Drive it in leave it for 2-3 weeks and then drive home again. With a smile.......and an empty bank account....lol
The 3.0L Ireland Engineering kit is the one I've been looking at. We have exchanged a couple of e-mails regarding the kit and the claimed 240bhp, and I can still have this kit shipped from the US for less than half the price of the Bexleys conversion. Which would then leave me enough money for the cam and the six branch. or even some head work.

[E30sixpot]

I think the Ireland Enginering Kit is an excellent idea, at the end of the day you do get a steel crank, brand new pistons and rings etc. The quailty is brilliant.

However, its not just abuot the hardware. I keep emphasising this final point but no one seems to listen! The components are only half the story, you must fit them properly to get the best out of them.

YOU MUST GET ALL THE RELEVANT MEASUREMENTS DONE SO THAT YOU CAN GET THE REQUIRED COMPRESSION RATIO.

You are not going to make big power with a low compression ratio (unless u fit a turbo!). E30Adam's car would have been much more powerful if the CR was 10.5:1.

If it was my money I would buy the 3.0 Kit and get all the measurememtns done to get high comp, get the head ported, fit a 284/272 Cam and get a remap done. That whole lot would cost you less than Ԛ£3500 + VAT.

I have to say that I am more tempted with the Ireland Engineering kit over the Bexley conversion. I already have a ported cylinder head so I only really need a lumpy cam and a decent six branch. I could also be tempted with an Emerald ECU which I've heard abit about.
How do I go about calculating the measurements for the compression ratio. Or is that best left to a professional?

[E30Adam]

Funny how it's only their own engines that make good power.

[Jimbob]

204bhp from a 3.0? And how much did that set the customer back?

And I take it your Sal, M5Pilot?

[E30Adam]

Bexleys

My car's going to someone who'll do a proper job next time.

[E30sixpot]

I believe the Ireland Engineering kit costs around the $2400 mark + $150 - 200 to ship to the UK. Given the exchange rates at the moment buying from the US is quite appealing. I can have the kit for less than Ԛ£1500. Which is already a saving of over Ԛ£2000 compared to the Bexley conversion. So the money saved can be spent on buying lumpy cams, stand alone management etc etc.
As for building it myself....I would like to, purely for the sense of achievement at the end of it all but given that I havn't rebuilt an engine for about fifteen years it seems abit daunting.

[Andy335Touring]

If you do get an Emerald they are fairly easy to wire up your self so it will save you a lot of money,just make sure you get it mapped on Dave Walkers rollers !!!!!

[E30sixpot]

Yes I am SAL previously also known as C227........I might aswell go back to being C227!

Anyway, yes 204 BHP from a 3.0 with a MAF. Something was obvioulsy wrong somewhere because they said the engine sounded rather rattly.

E30SixPot......your gonna have one awesome engine if you do this properly. Go for it!

With Emerald, new cam, rockers, other parts + labour to build you should have this whole lot done in about Ԛ£3500. I cant see it going much over that. I can give you a rough guide as to what parts your going to need and how much they cost. Its alot of small stuff you dont realy think about.

Cheers!,
I hope it all goes to plan and I get the results I would like. As for the list of parts, any help is greatly apprieciated

Out of curiosity, and I dont want to sound stupid here but if I fit an Emerald ECU do I loose the need for an AFM / MAF?.

[Andy335Touring]

Out of curiosity, and I dont want to sound stupid here but if I fit an Emerald ECU do I loose the need for an AFM / MAF?.

Yep,no AFM/MAF is needed,it uses a throttle angle switch.

[E30sixpot]

Cool!!!