Project-M45 super charger (developments)

[gareth]

regarding tooling, do you have the ability to use carbide tips? i have a bin full on blunt ones that could be ground to whatever shape you need and used if you want some? i have an image of a ground down (width) parting-off tip as it'll be a fairly shallow cut.

for a steady to help stop chatter, could you turn the corners off the square to accept a tight fitting bearing and move it about as you need it?

this all depends of what lathe you have really..

[jkarran]

for a steady to help stop chatter, could you turn the corners off the square to accept a tight fitting bearing and move it about as you need it?

this all depends of what lathe you have really..

That sounds like a good idea, just cut enough off the corners to give a reasonable surface area to slip a bearing (or even solid ring) onto.

Matts dad: Slitting saw should do a nice job if you can get the spindle close enough to the bar with the gearbox setup you have. Did you see the ganged slitting saws used to cut cooling fins on model aero engines? I posted a link to a few pages back. Would speed things up and make indexing easier if you have enough saws!

At least a slit down the top and bottom of the bars length sounds like a good idea to stop the fins conducting heat through. Will introduce some turbulance too which can't be a bad thing.

Off topic (just for a change ) I got my rally turd running again, I'd forgotten how cool E30s are to drive

jk

[appletree]

got quite abit done on the car now, no pics yet but i've got a new pully for the s/c to run off, its crankpully of a e36 318 with the trigger wheel machined off so its just the 6 grove pully bit

then i had to make a spacer for it as it wouldnt sit down on the origional crank pully. got a belt sorted for the 6 grove set up (loads more lengths to choose from than a 4 gr ove) so thats a big relief as i thought i would end up having to get one specaily made.

Got most of the air box that will link my throttle body to the S/C inlet welded up, its not going to be the best flowing thing i could have made but its going to do the job fine . Got to have some thing to improve on in the future

and finaly ive finaly started to tackal the wiring for my electric fan, i've been putting it off for aslong as posible as i HATE car wiring!!

a'l get sum pics up when i get a min and its light!!

how you doing JK?

[stuartgallafant]

sounds like you're steaming ahead again matt!!

get some pics asap!!!

[jkarran]

Alright mate, not done much on the SC front for a while except moulding the inlet ducting. I scratched my head for ages trying to find somewhere in the engine bay I could fence off AND get a cold air feed to AND route the SC inlet to. turns out the scuttle area is ideal and the inlet neck couldn't be any simpler to mould That's curing in the garage as I type.

Pretty much decided to go Megasquirt with custom made sequential ignition controller... might as well make some use of my degree Getting that running (NA initially to prove the concept) will be high on the list of must do jobs along with finally buying a tig to assemble the plenum.

I rebuilt an old 4 jaw chuck I had so now I can actually grip the stock to make pullys and power takeoff bearing/seal. 3 jaw was too small No progress there, been making E30 suspension bits instead!

How did you change the SC pully to 6V (parts and technique!) , do you just pull it off with a hydraulic puller, than knock a new one on? Looked at this last night as I have a nice small Daewoo alternator pully I'm tempted to swap to (4V but smaller than Mini/Eaton one).

Think I'll also make my own tensioner wheel to save weight and guarentee it'll cope with silly belt speeds.

Mostly been working on the E30 trying to add ride height but It's parked in a puddle and everything I try to modify seems to be broken so that's taking time

How you doing with the cooler?

jk

[appletree]

JK
Go to this link on ebay it shows the general required for new pulley http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Alta-Min ... enameZWD2V

Detail pictures at bottom of listing Matts Dad

[jkarran]

Ah, clever, is that collet fitment what Matt's using?

Might be simpler for me to weld the outer from the Daewoo onto the hub of the Eaton and press it all back together or just make a bigger drive pully and save myself a job

Got a new parting tool this lunchtime so I can cut the pully and power take off hub (old tool was too short for 3" bar).

Also got springs for the E30, not a bad day so far!

jk

[appletree]

hears a pic of the front crank pully i machined up to make the 6grove drive for the S/C, i first ground off all the teeth on the trigger wheel and then turned it down to make it to just a pully.

havent got actuly got a good pic but hears a rough idea of what i started with but instead of a V mine had 6v pully and i just machined off the trigger wheel bit to leave the carrier and the pully.



it gives the ration of just under 2:1 using the standard eaton pully.

no pic of the spacer as its on the car, not as easy as it sounds to make it as the pully had to have something to locate on and sit down against the normal "V" belt crank pully the washer on the big bolt in the middle of the pully stuck out almost to the depth of the spacer so it was a thin wall between the centre bore and the back of the stub for the pully to locate on!

I am going to have to swop to running a 4v flat pully for the power steering as the normal "V" belt pully is no good.

this is a pic of the air box i made to connect the throttle body to the S/C inlet.

the plate i welded the box to so it can be removed if needed


Before any one says it i KNOW it won't flow that well!!!





a pic of the 6v belt inplace and the rough idea of where it will be when it s tesioned up.


some reson this has come out upside down

As for the intercooling, not muchmore done, the tubes are at a local machineists getting the hole drilled down the centre (our lathe isn't big enough) but other than that not much has happend.

tested my little water pump! seams to be suprisingly good.

a pic of it pumping the water through 15mm ID bore pipe, seams to have adiquate flow.



and finaly heres a pic of test rig i made(and welded!!!!! second go) for testing my dump valve that i was hoping to use as a adjustable blow off valve but it was shit and passed air all the time even at .1 bar!!!

[jkarran]

Hmm... thats not good news about the dump valve being shit, hope mine isn't

<rant> I've had a frustrating night turning suspension bits for the E30 until I gave up to watch tv with a bag of chips and a beer that is Am I missing something or do parting off tools never F....ing work? Took bloody hours and kept stalling the lathe! I could have chewed through the ally quicker. Grrrr... I think I need to re-grind it but I can't see why the bastard wont work, my short one does and that has a very similar profile. </rant>

At least I got one rear spring + spacer back on and I think they're heavier springs, result! Waiting for some more ally bar to make the front suspension spacers. Then... green lane shakedown time

A mate is using a similar pump (renault/bosch) for his whole Mini engine, should be fine for your cooler

Did your SC have 6V pully as standard? I'm pretty sure mine's 4V.
jk

[appletree]

Dont know what lathe you've got jk but yes parting is a bit like that, on larger stuff i use back gear at very low speed and i'm lucky and have power cross feed which helps. Some books say have tool slightly above ctr others below i favor below. You need clearance all round the tool to minimise rubbing, my best results have been when using a carbide insert tool, as much as anything all the angles are matched and it has a kind of multi facetted cutting edge cost £40 (i bough 2 by mistake lucky one was 2mm other 3mm but i didnt realy need 2 carriers) . The thing is if you think about it you have a large cutting edge which zaps power also the load deflects the tool, the cutting reduces you feed in the tool digs in lathe stops tool digs in job comes out of chuck gouges great big marks in your previously nice finish oops. mats dad

[Apal]

Parting off can be a bit of a 'black-art' that many avoid like the plague. As well as the valid points above the other issue to think about is the direction of the forces involved. Setting the parting-off tool up-side-down helps a lot. Of course you need to mount the tool BEHIND the work on the cross-slide.

Have a look at the following notes as well...

http://yarchive.net/metal/parting_off.html

[jkarran]

The lathe is an old ML7 that could use some tlc. No power cross feed though it was sold as Super7

Cheers guys, I'll have a read and persevere, I've had problems with this before and solved them but only with shallower cuts, I did think about mounting it upside down on a rear tool post (that's how frustrated I was getting, well that and the shouting). My rear tool post is an awkward shape, that put me off... well, that and the lure of beer chips and tv

There seem to be two problems, it chatters (weak/worn lathe and bendy tool) creating thin chips which then jam and gall between the tool sides and the edges of the cut. Upside down tool will probably help that. Using kerosene to lubricate the tool (which works well with my old one) makes the jamming worse!

The other problem is the alluminium chips are welding themselves to the cutting edge (effectively clogging and blunting it) rather than peeling away in neat little snail shells. Might just be the alloy I'm using, it does seem quite soft.

I did try using the back gear results were alarming bend in the tool and the chuck gouging the workpiece.

A black art indeed it seems
jk

[jkarran]

Ha... amazing what a few moments reading and thought does! I figured why it was jamming so bad. The blade to trapezoidal in section (wider at top than bottom) but too tall for the Myford holder so I ground a cutting edge 2mm or so below the top of the blade. That cutting edge is now narrower than the rest of the blade I'm feeding in... no wonder it was jamming and galling the edged of the cut

Amazing how obvious it seems sat at a nice clean desk but it had me utterly confounded and frustrated last night

More grinding needed.
jk

[daimlerman]

I have just discovered and read this thread,I now start to realise why turbo/supercharger kits are so expensive. Well done Matt/Matts dad/jkarran.It is heartwarming to know that folk with engineering skills like yours are ready to share your ups and downs with all of us.Good luck with the conversion,it will make a very interesting car to own.

[ric325i]

i just started to read this thread then my brain exploded and i gave up.

now i just look at the pictures.

[stuartgallafant]

im confused now everyones talking about lathes an stuff!!!

[jkarran]

Sorry guys, I'll attempt to stay at least vaguely on topic

jk

[appletree]

Here you go stuart something a little more on topic!!

A few pics of it all bolted up and what it might look like

the plate on the back ot the S/C will be cut to a better looking shape once am sure its all going to fit and work







to do list:

make tesioner
make bracket to support S/C and mount tesioner off
route pipes for cam cover breather
route pipe for ICV
make inlet for ICv in manifold
tap points for all the connections, boost pressure, MAP sensor
make connection for bypass valve
sort out pressure relief valve

Make laminovas (to much to list )

[stuartgallafant]

looks superb matt, well done there mate!!

give your dad a pat on the back too, i bet he's been well handy to have around!!

[appletree]

IT RUNS

No not the car!!! the electric fan!!

after loads of messing about i've finaly got it all wired in, been a right PITA firstly we spent about half a day trying to work out why we couldn't get Ian332's wiring diagram to match my car. had positive were we should have had negative and pins in the wrong places.

decided to use the spare relay slots on the out side of the fuse box and wired it all up, however when i came to test it i found that it fan would only work when i used a black reply i had based the wireing on, but when i used a orange K7 rely nothing!!!

filaly worked out that the black rely i based the lot on had a odd confirguration of pins and had the wrong pins in the wrong place!!!!

what a ball ache!!! but its done now and ive just got to use this wierd type of rely.

[stuartgallafant]

so is to iains spec or not?

well done though mate

[appletree]

No its all wired up on the out side of the fuse box using the relay base slots ,ive used all the bits ian said but i think ive wired them up differently as in my temp switch creates an earth point and i think ians was making a poistive conection.

pic for you.

[jkarran]

Progress report: I've finished laying up the SC inlet duct including the 1" (too small?) inlet for the recirculating dump valve. Lessons learned from my last experience helped, keeping the clay soft throughout helps a lot, this is easy to do using clingfilm over the mould when not working on it. Means the clay can be removed with the jetwasher, messy but easy Less internal (but more external) framework makes clay removal easier. Waxing the mould also helps seal the surface even though it's rough, wasn't expecting that Oh and don't bother with gelcoat on the clay before layup, it just makes a mess.

Pics to follow later once it's trimmed and cleaned up.

I finally also got round to shelling out for an ac welder so ther'll be some messy welding pics in the next couple of weeks and hopefully a finished plenum/intercooler

jk

[appletree]

looking forward to seeing the intakes and welding JK, what welder did you get in the end as ive been learning to TIG and am getting quite good now (in stainless)

1" sounds fine to me as it wont be working much above 3krpm i would guess as its not that often you drive long periods of time at no/little throttle but with revs much higher 3k(depends on final gear ratio though) so it wount need to flow much air.

Got some more pics to post up from my project to, got all the belts sorted and a spacer made up for the power steering pulley so i can run 4v flat belt.

built all my car back up to test all the new setups and also ready for a MOT so i dont have to get round emissions or anything once its S/C however, i have found out that the rack is fooked!!

[clubfx2]

Apple


Any ideas on the bhp gain the chargers going to give the IS???

[jkarran]

Cool, guess the tig will be a bit of a steep learning curve but I can't wait, hopefully it'll be here Monday. Went for an R-tech Tig201 + pedal. Saw one over here used by a guy who builds sidecar outfits for the TT, it obviously does the job as they hit well over 150mph. More importantly he had nothing but praise for the aftersales service.

I wish it routinely ran under 3Krpm I tend to keep it around 4 to 5Krpm while cruising for instant response. Blower might help with that though Might not need to cane it so hard then.

Good effort on the belts, that's a job I'm not looking forward to, just gotta get stuck in though, I'm sure it'll be fun once I get going.

Pics later or tomorrow.

<edit>Fooked rack = New quickrack

jk

[appletree]

clubfx2 hopefully the charger will bring the car up to around 200bhp ant the flywheel with any luck. i would be over the moon if it made this but anything over 175 would be good.

Jk have you got the info for what air you engine is using and how much you might have to recirculate at 4.5/5krpm? the must be info on the net about how much air you can flow through different size tube/pipe at a given pressure.

as for the belts i made a jig using abit of string to get the reqired belt length and then screwing one pulley to a length of wood ands putting the string around this and then around a second pulley and marking the wood then i went to halfords witha bit of rough cut 1.5x 1.5x18" hanging out a bag layed it on the floor and started to try all the belts they had to find one that fitted the pulley and matched the mark. yes i did get some funny looks!!

this is the spacer i made to move the PS pulley forward to line up with the new 4v pulley on the crank.

from the front


from the back

[jkarran]

My main concern is how much it'll flow when I lift at 11,000 rpm and coast 9900 L/min - what meagre amount the engine needs to turn over at that RPM. Say 9000L/min

150 L/sec or 0.15 m^3/sec through a 23mm hole -> 0.000415 m^2 -> 361 m/s flow velocity which is supersonic That aint going to work. Not sure why I never thought of this before! I guess I need a second (atmospheric ) dump valve for snap shuts or high rpm lift offs. Either that or put up with elevated pressure when I lift off at high rpm, might try that first, just hope it doesn't bend the butterflies.

Arghhhh... no halfords over here, going to be trawling around friendly local garages and parts factors to find a belt for mine

jk

[appletree]

Forgot you have you throttles down stream, you don't need to run a recirc valve you can run a atmospheric one easy as that will mean you S/C can get rid off the boost it makes quickly and that will let is "freewheel" off throttle , get a big one off a GTR or something the type you weld a flange to your boost pipe and it should be fine. wwwwtttiissssss

like this then you know it will flow enough!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/50mm-Blow-Off-Val ... dZViewItem

I also have a brand new spare HKS copy atmospheric valve if you would be intrested in doing a swop for you baileys one and some cash as my recirc one is just a plastic bosch one

Its ok for me with my throttle before the S/C as when that shut when i lift off the S/C can't get any air to pressurise so it only has the tiny amount use in the inlet tract after the TB and then it will all be working in a vacume and the recirc will just balance out either side of the charger.

[jkarran]

Good spot on eBay, that's a nice looking piece of kit.

I'm going to try as-is first, see how it goes, if it can't dump the majority of the boost at high rpm my options are magnetic clutch (aircon salvage maybe) or another big atmospheric valve. Just think how noisey that'd be hissing away for 4 or 5 seconds rather than the little 'pshhhhhTT' you get with a turbo I'd sound bonkers (as if it won't already ).

I looked at the Bosch plastic valve, good value but I just had one of those moments where the shiney Bailey won over so I think I'll keep it. Set a search on eBay with max price, there's often second hand stuff for sale with the odd mark you could easilly hide.

jk

[jkarran]

Pictures as promised: Ignore if you're after E30 pics Enjoy if you like random diy stupidity.



Base showing 5mm ally plate used to form the seal and mounting and general building block of the whole thing (hylomar or soft silicone wil make a full seal.





A couple of views showing the CK weave and the complex shapes you can form with the lost clay plug. Both ducts will be getting a couple of coats of lacquer to bring out their shine and keep them clean. It's 1 to 2 layers of CSM and one layer of carbon kevlar twill, weight is <150g at a guess. It is however remarkably rigid.



Showing location and function of the duct. Dump valve and matching 1" inlet in the duct are visible. I made this in ally and built it into the duct like I did for the exducer duct, basically because it's easier than trying to controll the composite to get the right shape.



Close up showing the new bellcrank and mounting needed to clear the duct and the general lack of space. I don't think any other construction technique would have allowed me to fit and plumb this which might seem odd considering it's a small engine in a pretty big hole.



A shot showing where it'll be plumbed to. A cone filter in the scuttle (near the lockwire roll) will be fenced off and will draw cold air from the base of the flyscreen. Will be noisey as hell but it's the best source of cold air available without chopping the body about, I want it stealthy, well stealthy ish, it already upsets pedestrians by spitting flames out the passenger side



And a final shot of the E30 looking sad awaiting longer front legs for better green lane performance

jk

[appletree]

Thats some realy nice ducting again Jk when you get time al send you my setup and you can make me one

[Toby_Unna]

like this then you know it will flow enough!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/50mm-Blow-Off-Val ... dZViewItem

Matt, that's the dump valve I have. seems to work very nicely!

Jkarran, that duct is ace. as is the car in general

[jkarran]

Cheers Toby, your car's pretty cool to! Much respect for getting all that to work

My new welder just arrived, guess I've got an excuse to tidy the garage now.

jk

[appletree]

Think this is going to be the roller i use to do the belt tesioner and just wondered if it would be any good for you set up JK as its quite large in diameter. Any good?

hears a pic, its the cam belt roller off a 2ltr impreza sport if its any use

Side


Front


Back


the width of the roller is 34mm
the O/D of the roller is 70mm
the O/D of the bearing is 62mm
the I/D of the bearing is 45mm
the bolt hole is 16mm