With the head off, what's worth doing?/Uprated cam?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:11 pm

As i'm facing having to take my head off (325) soon due to gasket and/or head cracked problems (see other post here: http://www.e30zone.co.uk/modules.php?na ... pic&t=6276)), i'm contemplating what else is worth doing whilst i'm at it.

1. Reconditioning the head as per Adam's excellent article certainly seems worthwhile. I did something similar on a previous car.

2. Changing/renewing/cleaning the injectors as the noise mine make is driving me mad! Any suggestions?

3. Replacing the cam with something slightly - not wildly uprated - opinions please? What are the options and what can i expect in terms of performance gains? Cost involved?

4. Anything else worth doing that doesn't involve huge amounts of money or time?

Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:17 pm

yeah stick a mildish shrick cam in there while its out should see some nice mid range and some top end gains

Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:05 pm

Pete,

defintaley get a Cam in there. Apparently a Schrick 272/272 is very very good. You could even go fro a 284/272. Idle is only slightly lumpy with the 284.

You could port the head aswell but I dont know how much difference it would make.

Defo go for a Schrick cam though.

Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:23 pm

port the head
reseat the valves
mildish cam - schrick 272/272 or similar

add a big bore tb to that lil lot and u shud see a nice improvement.

u can get the injectors cleaned and tested for not too much Ãƒ”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£ iirc

oh yeah and of course a zone chip to match the mods

Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:47 pm

Thanks for the tips guys.

So how much Ãƒ”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£Ãƒ”šÃ‚£ are we talking for a Schrick cam then? And what would a 272/272 give in terms of performance increase?

I've already got the larger TB and Zone chip, though i understand there are better ones available now than my early "developmental" version.

Guest · Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:50 pm

PeteE30Tourer wrote:i'm facing having to take my head off

Ouch.

Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:54 pm

Pete those numbers are

Chris Plummer BMW specialist 01252 336658 Mob:07860 509463

Stefan the sprayer: 07831 848716

Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:59 pm

Cheers Simon - i'll give Chris a ring tomorrow - definitely a different number to the one i'd been phoning that advertises locally. I'll also make a note of the sprayer's number too - been meaning to get my bonnet done for ages.

Good luck at the hospital tomorrow!

Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:21 pm

Pete, a cam kit is going to cost you about Ãƒ”šÃ‚£400. THis includes the cam and uprated valve springs. Add this to the cost of gaskets, machine work to the head and other consumables that all add up and you're looking at getting close to a grand.

Of course there are always people who do things on the cheap, you could go to GSF for all your parts but I personally wouldn't trust thier stuff when it comes down to something as important as a head.

If you have plenty of time then I'd suggest porting your head. It's not difficult but it's very time consuming. All you need is a Dremel type tool (Ãƒ”šÃ‚£25 from Halfords or B&Q) and some "engineers blue dye". If you're tempted I'll give a full description.

I'd definately recondition it by means of a decoke and regrind of the valve seats.

A cam is a good upgrade but it's quite a high price. You're probably looking at little more than 10bhp.

Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:27 pm

but with the other mods he already has chip,BBTB, 6 branch and stainless system plus the porting this would have more of a noticible effect on things no? As they all work together?!

Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:31 pm

plus, although a cam may only give about 10BHP is the point not to create a better power/torque curve so that the power/torque is there for longer and at a better time. there for increasing actuall performance theorectically more than 10BHP's worth than with the old curve.

or am i getting the wrong end of the stick

Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:34 pm

If I can offer you one bit of advice mate it has to be use a BRAND new bare head if you need to replace the head, not a reconditioned one (WELDED) as in my experience these are sh*te. The bare brand new head cost me 450 pounds or there abouts from C3. If you use Euro of GSF make sure it is a brand new head you get, not a welded one. No point in buying a built recon unit either if you are replacing most of it. I replaced the valves (also C3) while it was apart as I didn't like the idea of a valve head dropping off a few hundred miles down the line and destroying all my hard work.

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:05 am

If you have plenty of time then I'd suggest porting your head. It's not difficult but it's very time consuming. All you need is a Dremel type tool (Ãƒ”šÃ‚£25 from Halfords or B&Q) and some "engineers blue dye". If you're tempted I'll give a full description.

Adam, I have a brand new m10 (bare, aprat from new valves) head sitting in my room...wanting to be played with! Can you give me some "knowledge" on porting and other ideas. Its not going in the car for ages, so time is no problem. Thanks for any help

Sorry pete for the hijack...

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:29 am

Adam, I have a brand new m10 (bare, aprat from new valves) head sitting in my room...wanting to be played with! Can you give me some "knowledge" on porting and other ideas. Its not going in the car for ages, so time is no problem. Thanks for any help

Sorry pete for the hijack...[/quote]

Is that the fruit bowl M10 head?!

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 am

iam doing the head refit thing at the mo too
iam ordering the 288/272 schrick cam. ive pressure tested the head and skimmed it flat. new spring are also on way. polished/cleaned valves
relap valves and compleate gasket kit.
and then its going in ! if i can polish the exhasut i will but not the inlet!

cam Ãƒ”šÃ‚£234
springs Ãƒ”šÃ‚£100
gaskets and bolts Ãƒ”šÃ‚£60
pressure test and skim Ãƒ”šÃ‚£69
cambelt n anti freeze Ãƒ”šÃ‚£20
fitting ! my self and a mate i hope!

total= one arm

Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:28 am

Thanks again. I admit that the price of a schrick cam is putting me off - seems like a lot of bucks for little bang. Having said that though, if i do the job myself, i'll be saving the best part of Ãƒ”šÃ‚£500 so i might be able to justify it.

So about this porting - i assume this is smoothing and opening up the air channels in the head, right? How long would this take with a Dremmel and what can i expect to get in return?

psychochild - i'd be very interested to hear how you get on putting all this back together and what results you get when you get to drive the car again - keep us posted on this one.

Where are these cams available from then? Just did a search on Google, but it only came up with the e30zone and the bmwcarclub forums.

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:30 pm

Who/What is C3 where the head is from?

Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:51 pm

You do not HAVE to buy the uprated springs. Ant fitted a Piper 274 cam without touching the springs and that ran fine and had no problems at higher rpms. Lots of cars dont have the springs fitted with no problems at all.

However, i dont think there is a big price difference for the whole kit so you may decide to do it. Loads of people use thier origional heads, if its fine then dont waste money on a new one.

Porting is best left to the proffessionals.

I think with the current mods you have the cam will work very well but I think you serioulsy need to consider a custom remap once all the work is done.

Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:17 pm

Is that the fruit bowl M10 head?!

yes..... doesn't have fruit in it now though, packed away..don't want to damage it!

Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:24 pm

M5pilot wrote:I think with the current mods you have the cam will work very well but I think you serioulsy need to consider a custom remap once all the work is done.

This is one of my concerns. If i'm spending Ãƒ”šÃ‚£500-Ãƒ”šÃ‚£1000 to get the head done with a new cam etc., am i going to need to spend another Ãƒ”šÃ‚£4-500 on a remap to get the full benefit of it? Worst case, i'm looking at Ãƒ”šÃ‚£1500 for what? Another 10 or 20bhp? For that sort of money, i could just go for a 2.7 install surely? Besides, this is all way out of my budget - it's fantasy land for me. With a wife and 2 kids to support, plus another one on the way any day now, i cant justify forking out a grand or more on my motor.

I think i'd better stick with the recon of my existing head, or a replacement if it's cracked, which most people seem to think it will be. I keep being told that the head gasket doesn't go that often on these motors and it's more likely to be the head cracking. Until i get mine off though, i wont know for sure.

Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:37 pm

The car will run ok with the cam fitted and you can always get a remap later on, maybe 6 months down the line. Ants car ran ok with a cam fitted as did Dale's.

In any circumstances I would replace the cam anyway whether it be standard or uprated.

Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:38 pm

M5pilot wrote:In any circumstances I would replace the cam anyway whether it be standard or uprated.

I was thinking this too. With 140k miles on the clock, things like the cam are bound to be worn, so it would probably benefit from a new cam anyway. I can imagine a replacement cam from BMW would be almost as much as a Schrick one though.

Thu Apr 14, 2005 3:58 pm

1. I've been told by someone who really ought to know (he used to race them) that a Schrick 284/272 shoudl turn a 325 up to near 190bhp. I'll let you know when I fit mine...

2. You can get Schricks from garth.kaps@blueyonder.co.uk... or you used to...

3. You will, I believe, need new rockers as well...

Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:35 pm

Ant should be able to make you a chip that suits the mods to your engine that will be 96% as good as a remap so you can put the money saved towards other stuf.

I think you are best off getting the shcrick valve springs if you are getting the cam.

Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:37 pm

Thanks Andy - i've been meaning to talk to Ant about a new chip. Although mine is a Zone chip, it's one of the very early ones and i'm sure the more recent ones give better gains.

Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:20 pm

PeteE30Tourer wrote:Thanks Andy - i've been meaning to talk to Ant about a new chip. Although mine is a Zone chip, it's one of the very early ones and i'm sure the more recent ones give better gains.

can he flash the upgraded software to it ?

Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:21 pm

Chaos wrote:
PeteE30Tourer wrote:Thanks Andy - i've been meaning to talk to Ant about a new chip. Although mine is a Zone chip, it's one of the very early ones and i'm sure the more recent ones give better gains.
can he flash the upgraded software to it ?

Dont think so - need to replace the chip completely.

Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:46 pm

If you want to get hold of Schrick, go to www.ca-automotive.co.uk and speak to Roy!! He's a top bloke and tell him Paul from the Kumho Championship sent you! CA-Automotive are sponsoring me this year.

New rockers (and eccentrics) are a must with a new cam. As for springs, if you start heading towards the 288, then get springs aswell. I run a 288/288 in the racer and valve bounce snapped a head off a valve last season causing HUGE damage! Needless to say, I am currently rebuilding the head with Schrick springs!

The racer also runs one of Ant's chips and zone BBTB.

Although cams are good for a power hike, remember the driveability changes.... the wilder the cam, the higher up the rev range your power comes in. The 288/288 in the racer makes it idle like a drag car, but comes on song about 3750rpm to 4000rpm...not exactly ideal for a road car!

Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:20 pm

Interesting insight there - thanks. To be perfectly honest though, i've always been a fan of low-down torque rather than high-revving power.

All sounds very expensive to me still and hence out of my league. Think i'll stick with the standard head, cam etc. and be content with that.

Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:39 pm

Hi guys,

dragging up an old post i know but just checking in.

I've not been on for ages, but still have the E30, and another toy

if you require any Schrick, Eibach, Bosch, ATP, FSE, Whiteline, Mobil or pretty much anything drop me a line at gareth.kaps(at)ntlworld.com

Sorry to anyone who has emailed me at gareth.kaps@blueyonder.co.uk i've moved house and lost that address!!

Cheers

Gareth

Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:24 pm

Geepers! This is an old thread to dig up.

For the record, i did go for the cam upgrade - Dbilas 282/272 complete with new springs, fitted to a ported head and with a new chip from Ant. Using all BMW parts for gaskets, bolts etc. it did amount to the best part of a grand (Adam was right!).

The outcome? Well, to drive the car there's no comparison - it's far more lively than it was before. On the rollers too it showed good improvements - 159bhp before/178bhp now, 160lbft torque before, 187lbft now. That's nearly 20bhp and 27lbft increases.

Worth a grand? Probably not, but i had to change the head anyway.