SuperCharging an M42-Opinions? Whats needed?

[320Touring]

hey frosted if there are any ones gonna be available after swirly and your mate get their's can I get a price for postage please?!

I'm In glasgow, so shouldnt be too steep....

cheers!top bloke

[frosted]

thinking about it i might get mate to aquuire 3-4 then just let plp get them on here. note - i find anyone selling them for pfoit i will personally travel and break legs

[320Touring]

frosted-top bloke!

not gonna sell on!gonna ogle that puppy til i can afford to get all the bits to make it work on my m20

hear ya on the break legs tho-take note all you (supposedly) fly guys

[hoshy]

I don't fancy any broken legs. but there's no way I'd sell it anyway... as 320touring says. Top bloke!

pm sent btw, just so you don't forget me

[Geeman]

Free superchargers....? Hmmm...

Okay, so now two ideas for my track car...

1) I was originally going to take out my 318iS engine and box and replace it with a 3.5 M30... 210-odd BHP - cost Ԛ£500 total...

2) New idea - Supercharge my existing 318iS engine that already has BBTB, chip, induction and stainless exhaust... - cost Ԛ£???

Giles.

[hoshy]

These superchargers proably (cetraintly ?? ) won't give you as much power and it will more than likely cost more than 500 all in as you need something like a unichip to remap the engine. Maybe an uprated fuel pressure reg, pump and injectors.

Does anybody know about the upper capacity of the fuel system on the various e30s?

When I do mine I'll make up a basic tech guide... I can feel how much this is gonna rock already

[frosted]

no i guess they wont give as much power as a engine swop. the torque increase would be the best bit i would have thought.

plus if i rember rightly (will try and dig out the guide i have floating around) you can up the boost with the standard mini chargers and uprate them fiarly easily. could be wrong tho.

will talk to my mate in the next week or so and get him to put some aside.

note sure if you would need a full engine managment system as unlike a turbo i would guess teh mapping would be simple? i guess becuase you have boost on pretty much all the time it would be ok to setup.

i would think you would need uprated fuel pressure reg, pump and injectors. and im guessing it might be wise to uprate some of the parts in the engine. i could imagine it would be insane on a 2.7 conversion!



note - opions only. im not a engine tuner !!!!

frosted

[Geeman]

So it would be INSANER on an M30 3.5.... *drool* - dunno if there'd be room for one though!

[frosted]

grin,

well in a few weeks ill be helping my mate supercharge his golf. should be 200 bhp+ and more importantly the torque figures should be silly:)

it allready beats , celica GT4, 325i sport (i hate to say it but its no contest agenst this golf ) and a lot of other cars it shouldent

gotta love lotsa power in an old car

[320Touring]

So it would be INSANER on an M30 3.5.... *drool* - dunno if there'd be room for one though!

go for it mate!

belt squeal and m30 howl!!

would be a track car and a half!prob whip most anything!cept glenns m5e30....

[Geeman]

Yeah, don't think a blower would squeeze out an extra 200bhp to keep up with Glenns monster!

[Jhonno]

well i can get them for free. mate working in local bm garage. spoken too him. could get 2 a week

so joking aside if anyone is intersted might be able to work something out. dont give a toss about making money. just teh postage would be a killer

www.parcel2go.com - Ԛ£10 for p&p long as its under 25kgs and 2m which im pretty sure it is

[320Touring]

nice one Jhonno

this is gonna be amazing!!!

[hoshy]

This is is so funny.

We're gonna have a sub-breed of suprecharged e30 monsters.

down with the turbo! Bring on the good super!

Won't be long before people get bored with the little m45 blower and start looking at the bigger stuff like the eaton m90... We're gonna have some bad-ass cars before long.

[rare]

edit

[SwirlyE30]

Id really be up for this as aposed to getting rid of my car and getting somthing a bit more powerfull like i was planning to in the summer. But i really doubt theyd be keen on a 17 year old with a BMW and superchager lol

[hoshy]

It must be expensive enough for you just as you are mate!

as I said I'm 23. almost 24, then there's just a year to go until i'm 25 and it's hello cheap insurance. It's easy for people like me, and those who are older, to say stuff like "just wait a few more years" blah. but you don't wanna hear that. If you're 17 I guess you're living at home, in which case I'd go for the second car option and beg daddy to put it on his insurance. Tell him something like: I'll have my car for normal use and insure it myself but for a project I want to create a supercharged monster from a 1980s death trap. lol. Maybe need to rephrase but you get the idea.

Or I suppose you could work your arse off to pay for the insurance on it but I'd imagine alot of the fascist insurance companies wouldn't touch you with a supercharger on there.

I know a lot wouldn't consider me on a 325i at 22 w/ 2years ncb. In the end I managed to find a quote for about 1000 but gave up on the idea. Have the 318i now and have just got a policy with Churchhill 520!!! Well pleased with that.

In short there ain't alot you can do if you wanna do it leagally, and I really wouldn't recommend going the illegal route.

[Turbo-Brown]

no i guess they wont give as much power as a engine swop. the torque increase would be the best bit i would have thought.

plus if i rember rightly (will try and dig out the guide i have floating around) you can up the boost with the standard mini chargers and uprate them fiarly easily. could be wrong tho.

will talk to my mate in the next week or so and get him to put some aside.

note sure if you would need a full engine managment system as unlike a turbo i would guess teh mapping would be simple? i guess becuase you have boost on pretty much all the time it would be ok to setup.

i would think you would need uprated fuel pressure reg, pump and injectors. and im guessing it might be wise to uprate some of the parts in the engine. i could imagine it would be insane on a 2.7 conversion!



note - opions only. im not a engine tuner !!!!

frosted

Not sure the mapping would be simpler than a turbo conversion. It looks on the face of it like the boost and engine speed are directly related, but unfortunately they're not so you still can't map a supercharger on engine speed and throttle position alone

[hoshy]

Not sure the mapping would be simpler than a turbo conversion. It looks on the face of it like the boost and engine speed are directly related, but unfortunately they're not so you still can't map a supercharger on engine speed and throttle position alone

Can you elaborate ? I'm not questioning you. Just looking to get as much info on the subject as possible.

Ashley

[Turbo-Brown]

Well the problem with turbos is that they don't shift the same amount of air per engine revolution for example:

The engine's idling and you floor it up to 3000rpm, the turbo won't be pumping as much air as it would if you'd been cruising at 3000rpm.

The same kind of problem exists with positive displacement superchargers in that for light load and cruise conditions, they have a bypass valve which lets the engine suck air in past the blower mechanism. When you floor it, the valve shuts and so you get boost rather than air at atmospheric pressure.

So you see (from my crap explanation) that the relationship between engine speed and the air consumed by the engine is not linear with forced induction

[Davenotouring]

I'll take one for when I do the 3.5 conversion!!

250+bhp would be cool!

[Geeman]

Dave... exactly what I was thinking... he he!

Might as well have one, and have it as the 'next step' for future mods on the M30...

I'll be up for one then if they're available just for the cost of postage! Yes please...

Giles.

[Turbo-Brown]

Aaargh! Check the flow rate on the M45 supercharger before buying one!

[Davenotouring]

Aaargh! Check the flow rate on the M45 supercharger before buying one!

Is this the Cooper S supercharger? What's the problem?!

Any links?

[Geeman]

Who says we're buying one...? It's free!

[Ant]

Dave you need a turbo on the M30 336 rwhp @ 9 psi !!!

thats a phat 380 @ the fly and still reliable

[Jhonno]

dont think the supercharger in question will flow enough for the m30 lumps having 218bhp as standard.. remember they change them when changing to 200bhp...

[Davenotouring]

Dave you need a turbo on the M30 336 rwhp @ 9 psi !!!

thats a phat 380 @ the fly and still reliable

[frosted]

they can be modified to produce very nice gains. vw boys been doing it. will find the tech article i had on the subject 2mrw when i get a spare 5 mins,

frosted,

[Turbo-Brown]

'ere's the graph for the M45:




This is what I was saying in the post about the flow rates etc. The M45 blower's quite little, and the M30 engine's quite big.

I calculated ages ago that I'd need two M45s to make 400bhp, and that they'd consume 28bhp between them.

If you can get a pair, you could make an absolute beast But I don't think one can be used much beyond 200bhp as Jhonno says.

[Russ]

Turbo Brown speaks sense. The Eaton blower is used on the Mini, which is a 1.6! Even then, Cooper S's hardly set the world alight do they?

I reckon it *may* be worth it on the iS - but even then I reckon (I had a conversation about this with a mechanic when i had the iS - I had the same idea) you'd only be looking at 170bhp max.

And superchargers use power in order to create more....better stick with a turbo i say.

I reckon 1 pathetic little pissy M45 would make naff all difference on a 3.5 Giles.

[Dom]

Aftermarket mini tuners take the standard supercharger to 245bhp... that's with engine work though, 220 without.

170bhp sounds about right for a simple iS installation, obviously more money thrown at it = more power. (200bhp on mini is Ԛ£550, 220 is Ԛ£2k!)

Throwing my original budget of 2 grand at it and I think 200bhp should be a realistic target

[tim_s]

hi guys, sounds well interesting, have often thought about Scing my 318is. Would definitely like to be on the list for a supercharger!
Here are some links I've found, havent had much time to look (am at work), but bimmerforums looks like a good place to look:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh ... p?t=236405

http://forum.bmwcarmagazine.com/topic2. ... hichpage=1

http://www.ackthud.net/shawnfogg/

[Turbo-Brown]

Right, lets say that we're talking about the M45 for an M30 (that's confusing!)

The M30 displaces 3.5 litres?

Let's also take 6000rpm as being our crank speed.

So, at 6000rpm, the M30 consumes this amount of air (based on a few assumptions):

((3.5x6000)/2)*.85) which is the ((displacementxcrank speed)/2)*VE)

= 8925 litres/min

The divided by 2 is there as each cylinder only inhales every other crank revolution, and VE is the volumetric efficiency, which I've made up as being 85% for the sake of arguement)

From the graph above, we can see that the M45 can shift about 320 cubic feet of air / min at 14000rpm.

Now one cubic foot of air = 28.316846592 litres.

So at 14000rpm, it cam move 9061.39090944 litres of air / min.

Sounds good so far!

However, if we want to calculate the boosted air flow required, we need to select a boost pressure so lets take the 9psi suggested above.

So, to work this out, we first need to calculate the pressure ratio which is:

(Absolute pressure/atmos pressure)=PR

Absolute pressure is atmos+boost pressure so we have:

((14.7+9)/14.7)=1.61

Which essentially means that our engine will be able to consume about 61% more air at 9psi than it would if it were running normally aspirated.

If we compare the figures again, we see that the engine under 9psi will now want this much air:

8925*1.61=14369.25 litres / min
whereas the most the M45 can supply is 9061 litres / min

Quite a defeceit not quite so great

[hoshy]

Wow cool. Hardcore geek numbers. I like it.

Gonna run them for my 1.8 in a bit.

I did notice that you assumed a static air density though