Too scared to drift!

[minime1275]

Ok, I know this sounds like a bit of a lame thing to post, but since I bought my 320SE a fortnight ago, Ive been too scared to drift it on wet roundabouts etc (ive done it for you!), which is the whole point of opting for a RWD car over more mundane alternatives.

To cut a long story short, I had a 325SE last year and was just about getting the hang of it when, one day i was driving sensibly (i.e. not trying to get it sideways) when the back end stepped out without warning on a greasy and wet bend. I was completely taken by surprise because I was driving normally (doing about 45 on a bend Id done at 60+ in my mini).

Trying to correct the major oversteer (turning into the skid) was made very difficult due to the hopelessly slow steering and then when I had an armfull of opposite lock, it flicked the other way. All I could do was wait for the inevitable slow-motion screech, ba-dumph, smash, crunch, into a badly positioned tree (i mean, honestly - who plants a big oak tree on the edge of a bend?! )

Anyway, the tree won and the car was a write-off. Now Im back in another E30, Im very wary of this happening again. Im not a complete muppet behind the wheel - I know all the basics of RWD handling, but are E30's really as controllable to drift as they're made out to be? Does my lack of an LSD make it much harder to do? Im gonna have to build up my confidence slowly i think

[hammoj28]

I dont know.In mine sometimes its controllable and sometimes I end up facing the other way!! Clipped a crash barrier the other day!!!Its alright tho!!Suppose it's just getting used to it and knowing what your doing.If your that worried then go to a skid pan and get some safe practice!!Thats what Im gonna do soon!!

[minime1275]

If your that worried then go to a skid pan and get some safe practice!!Thats what Im gonna do soon!!

Dont know of any in my area and im a bit skint - might practice on the local beach tho, you can take cars on it. Then progress to a quiet, wide road, like a closed industrial estate.

[Zayyan]

Skid pan, a.k.a large empty car park at 3am

Or, dare I suggest it, you could just not drift and drive normally?

[Moofles]

Or, dare I suggest it, you could just not drift and drive normally?

in to a tree? again? not being offensive, i feel for you having done that, but you wouldn't go straight out and do it again, would you!?

[Zayyan]

are E30's really as controllable to drift as they're made out to be?

A touring would be best option if you really want to hang the ar*e out as the 50/50 weight distribution makes it a lot more controllable, and from what I've learned (may be wrong!) an LSD just makes it easier to drift for longer.

[Toby_Unna]

Trying to correct the major oversteer (turning into the skid) was made very difficult due to the hopelessly slow steering and then when I had an armfull of opposite lock, it flicked the other way.

you can't really blame the steering, it ain't THAT slow!

it is a tail happy car but it's not uncontrollable. if you get into fishtailing situations like that and fail to gather it up you just need more practice! once you get the feel for it you can sense when the slide is ending and wind off the lock beforehand so the transition to grip is smooth,

practice on wet roundabouts. the more slippery the surface the less throttle you need to break traction, which makes it more controllable

[DanJones]

I like to use the local cinema car park when its empty to practice as it has very slippery surfaces so its easy to get the car sideways at relatively low speeds....so if something did go wrong you dont spin too far..

I also like messing around on gravel to get the feel for sliding although not too nice to ur bodywork...

[Moofles]

Trying to correct the major oversteer (turning into the skid) was made very difficult due to the hopelessly slow steering and then when I had an armfull of opposite lock, it flicked the other way.

you can't really blame the steering, it ain't THAT slow!

15 billion turns lock-to-lock i've heard of people starting to turn the wheel going down the motorway, because 1 mile later it'll kick in and they'll be able to turn off...for some petrol.

[Zayyan]

You're right, it really is that slow!

[Toby_Unna]

steer faster then you bunch of pansies, i've never spun mine and it's bloody lairy in the wet

[astondg]

Mine is usually controllable but I have an E36 steering rack which would help a bit. I race on a dirt circuit and most of te time it is ok. Sometimes it will go big sideways unexpectedly but that could also be because of the changing dirt surface (it depends if the water truck has been out, or someone has gone off and thrown loose gravel onto the track, etc.).

In normal driving situations I don't usually have a problem. Some good tyres help (I don't know what you have now, just saying that they do). A LSD would give you more grip but it can make it slightly less predictable depending on wether it locks up or not in different situations. An open diff is probably the most predictable but also the first to wheelspin.

Like people have said a skid pan would be good, or a car park but a skid pan is easier on the car because it is usually wet and covered in diesel. Even if you are a good driver a day at a skid pan could get you back to your best. If you haven't been driving a RWD car for a while, or sliding one around, you might just be "out of practice".

Aston

[daveE30x2]

as someone said if you dont have an lsd its better as the lsd makes a drift last longer and sometimes more un-controlible.(bad spelling)
as for gettin used to it find your local sainsburys car park and tare up the tarmac.just make sure there are no cameras about first off.also get 2 or 3 mates in the back at first to add a bit more weight then chuck one out till you have none left and you feel more at home with seeing your rear quarter panel in your side window.

[iKst]

Drifting will only help to improve your driving skills, so you wont spin at 45mph any more. Its all about practice. When you get the fealing you wont be surprised by back and any more, you will enjoy it You wont fishtail anymore because you will know when to react and how much to countersteer.

Just find an empty parking lot and start by doing donuts. Then try doing 8s and when you get to know your car try it on an empty street. Its even better to go to a trak day or drift practice day.

Btw...i dont agree about LSD. In my expirience the car is much easier to control with LSD. The slide is much more progresive.

[Demlotcrew]

IF this happens again, just slam on the brakes!

Andrew

[hammoj28]

Snows always good fun for practice!!!I normally go to my local schools car park in the snow.Its good fun!!

[dogsdanglies]

one day i was driving sensibly (i.e. not trying to get it sideways) when the back end stepped out without warning on a greasy and wet bend. I was completely taken by surprise because I was driving normally (doing about 45 on a bend Id done at 60+ in my mini).

Trying to correct the major oversteer (turning into the skid) was made very difficult due to the hopelessly slow steering

Hey fella, Currently am trying to learn drifting in a e28, yeah I spun a few times practicing, when you say you where taken by surprise as the back stepped out, you must have upset the grip somehow, either through braking (and sending all the weight to the front wheels) or too much throttle, or spiking the throttle bringing the rear out.

The easiest way to bring the car straight after a drift, or if your losing control if to lift off the throttle, and let go of the steering wheel, as the wheels will always want to straighten out even on full oposite lock, (well on BMW's it works because they have quite a lot of castor angle), I wouldn't recommend braking in a panic situation as the weight shift can cause the car to spin even more violently.

Get over to www.driftworks.com if your serious about learing the art of drift.

[Demlotcrew]

one day i was driving sensibly (i.e. not trying to get it sideways) when the back end stepped out without warning on a greasy and wet bend. I was completely taken by surprise because I was driving normally (doing about 45 on a bend Id done at 60+ in my mini).

Trying to correct the major oversteer (turning into the skid) was made very difficult due to the hopelessly slow steering

Hey fella, Currently am trying to learn drifting in a e28, yeah I spun a few times practicing, when you say you where taken by surprise as the back stepped out, you must have upset the grip somehow, either through braking (and sending all the weight to the front wheels) or too much throttle, or spiking the throttle bringing the rear out.

The easiest way to bring the car straight after a drift, or if your losing control if to lift off the throttle, and let go of the steering wheel, as the wheels will always want to straighten out even on full oposite lock, (well on BMW's it works because they have quite a lot of castor angle), I wouldn't recommend braking in a panic situation as the weight shift can cause the car to spin even more violently.

Get over to www.driftworks.com if your serious about learing the art of drift.

OH well i was told when theres nothing else to do and all control has been lost, slam on the brakes.

Andrew

[Karan]

the rack is fine...

i think the problem is with ppl that complain about the lock on an e30 rack is very very simple.....

basically instead of winding on the opposite lock in a futile attempt, u will always be too slow...... so what u need to do is just let go of the wheel and it will correct iself, then grab it when desired angle is required... then quickly straighten up.....

just let the car dop what it wants to do smoothly..


trying to wind on opposite lock is fine on arcade games like sega rally 2 or wrc cars with 1.5 turns lock to lock... however on normal road cars the above method is best....

oh and get an lsd..... or u will do what is known as a Mr. whippy or a tank slapper as the car turns the other way..!!!

this Mr. whippy occurs more abruptly on 4 pots than 6pots and is what catches most ppl out...the steering will not self correct this time... so u have to wind back fast!


just what ive learnt in my quest to drive sideways..

oh and true enthusiasts tint or black out their windscreen so that they HAVE to drive by looking out the side window--eg...sideways
hope that helps

practise makes perfect!

Karan

[minime1275]

IF this happens again, just slam on the brakes!

and let go of the steering wheel

And shut my eyes?! Lol

Thanks for the replies, I will try to take all of the above info onboard.

...also get 2 or 3 mates in the back at first to add a bit more weight then chuck one out till you have none left and you feel more at home with seeing your rear quarter panel in your side window.

My mates saw the state of my last car after hitting a tree. Im not sure they'd be too eager to sit in the back while I practice drifting!

There is a good tight 90 degree bend at the local Morrisons store, used to hand-brake my mini round it perfectly. I remember doing my 1st powerslide round it with my old E30 - shit myself for a split second then was laughing all the way home.

(edit) In fact, its raining now. And I need some milk. Off to morrisons...

[dogsdanglies]

OH well i was told when theres nothing else to do and all control has been lost, slam on the brakes.

Andrew

Slamming the brakes works if you have run out of lock, i.e. you cant get enough opposite lock for the angle of the drift so, your going to spin anyway, but assuming any other circumstances just let the whhel go and let it self correct, most professionaly drifters end drifts, by letting go of the wheel, becasue if you manually do I find the car fishtails at the end of the drift, as I always end up the the wheel a bit pissed.

Also if you have ABS take the fuse out, because ABS doesn't work well when the wheels are spinning backwards.

[amit325i]

The worst thing you can do in a bend is lift off the accelerator,
especially if its wet!!!

Opp lock will work but have to have some room, and a LSD, you got to feel what the car is doing, through the seat, hence seat of the pant driving

and don't forget, if you have crap tyres, you are playing russian roulette!

[dogsdanglies]

The worst thing you can do in a bend is lift off the accelerator,
especially if its wet!!!

Opp lock will work but have to have some room, and a LSD, you got to feel what the car is doing, through the seat, hence seat of the pant driving

and don't forget, if you have crap tyres, you are playing russian roulette!

Lifting off can get you sideways, but its used to exit a drift as you are using the spinning rear wheels to hold the drift, as soon as the wheels stop spinning faster than the road you have grip to exit.

Opp lock works but with room? how else do you correct the drift then?

LSD is for softies, weld ya diff up

Crap tyres at the rear = sideways heaven

[amit325i]

I am talking about the public road rather than race track, there are objects like kerbs and lamposts people etc! around.

[astondg]

If you get too sideways you can slam on the brakes and make them lock up (important that they lock) then you will travel in a straight line in the direction of the momentum you have. So if the back comes around and the car is perpendicular to the road (90 degrees) you can lock the brakes and you will travel stright down the road sideways until you stop.

Lifting off the accelerator depends on how you got into the slide. If it was power induced (wheelspin) then lifting off a bit can help to get traction again, don't snap off the accelerator though, come off smoothly. You can get sideways in other situations though and then it is not always a good idea to get off the power, at least not all the way off.

Letting go of the steering wheel is fine in higher grip situations but I have found that on the dirt the wheels don't return to center like on bitumen and I have to manually put on the opposite lock. When the dirt (really clay) dries out it gets like bitumen and then I sometimes let the wheels return to center themselves depending on how much lock I need.

Aston

[Simon13]

The arse end doesn't just step out, diesel might make it if your unlucky somewhere. Sounds to me like an 18 year old gets a 325i and spanked it after 5mins of owning it. This car had managed 200,000 nearly before u got hold of it?

I've hit a tree when i was 18 in an E30 and wondered what happened! it fish tailed too and all that sh!te. I used to think it wasn't my fault the car just bit me. Wrong i was driving too fast and didn't have proper control of my car end of story. U need to respect how a rear wheel drive car behaves in normal driving in different weather conditions before u start playing with them.

I'm not having a go just going on all the things u have written in your posts in the past Minime

[Andy_magic]

If you get too sideways you can slam on the brakes and make them lock up (important that they lock) then you will travel in a straight line in the direction of the momentum you have. So if the back comes around and the car is perpendicular to the road (90 degrees) you can lock the brakes and you will travel stright down the road sideways until you stop.

Thats called cadence braking I think.

If your new to drifting go to your local car boot sale thats on a field of grass, everything happens at a much lower speed and gives a great insight into what will happen when your nailing it round Sainsbury's roundabout.

After a long spell of mundane FWD cars I got an E30 and was quite enthusiastic about it, my mrs kept asking whats so special about how it 'drives' so I showed her through 2 mini roundabouts "A flick to the right and a flick to the left" kind of a drawn out fishtale. I thought it was great but she didn't agree going on about wearing out tyres. WOMEN!

[Rich_W]

Ok, just to add my 2p worth.

I have had the car at some decent angles, 1st time ever I got into a bit of tank slapper because I just panicked, lifted completely and with the opposite lock on it just gripped and spun back that way. Once Id trained my foot to SLOWLY release the pressure at daft angles it all became more controllable. And more natural. I was enjoying hanging the arse out on roundabouts, All 1st and 2nd gear stuff but a lot of fun.

Then I got bitten!

My 1st spin. Rather publically I hasten to add To this day Im not sure what happened. And that concerns me. I tried (unsuccessfully) to do exactly the same thing for a few weeks afterwards. (in slightly better locations) I wanted to understand why. Basically Id tried the old maximum throttle, dont touch the clutch method and it got away from me. But numerous attempts to do that have just resulted in 100% grip and no slide I dont know if it was road conditions or my hamfisted ness that caused it.

2nd Spin happened about 6 weeks later. Going through Epsom highstreet I booted it to get away from the dumper truck on my right, again got about 3 car lengths and the car just piroutted. Probably doing 30 ish. Didnt hit anything this time. Now I understand that one as it was black ice that caught me out. My mistake, my penalty I can accept that a damn sight more than the 1st instance.

Only thing in common is I was turning left in both occasions. I think I just wasnt fast enough with my turning. Oh and this has only happened since I changed to Bridgestone S03 tyres. I dont know if thats relevant or not.

Basically ANYBODY can be caught out. Me, you, Tiff Needell, Marcus Gronholm. Sometimes you save it sometimes you dont. As long as you dont hit anything you're Ok, but theres a lot of things to hit on the road.

[Russ]

Or, dare I suggest it, you could just not drift and drive normally?

Puting my sensible head on - as much as drifting is "cool", there's a time and place.

On the track, with nothing to hit is that place. On the road with nasty kerbs, lamposts, pedestrians and other cars is not the place.

[Karan]

Or, dare I suggest it, you could just not drift and drive normally?

Puting my sensible head on - as much as drifting is "cool", there's a time and place.

On the track, with nothing to hit is that place. On the road with nasty kerbs, lamposts, pedestrians and other cars is not the place.

well said that man!!!!

no more stupid stuff for me after being caught.,..... license is too valuable as is life....

[minime1275]

The arse end doesn't just step out, diesel might make it if your unlucky somewhere. Sounds to me like an 18 year old gets a 325i and spanked it after 5mins of owning it. This car had managed 200,000 nearly before u got hold of it?

I've hit a tree when i was 18 in an E30 and wondered what happened! it fish tailed too and all that sh!te. I used to think it wasn't my fault the car just bit me. Wrong i was driving too fast and didn't have proper control of my car end of story. U need to respect how a rear wheel drive car behaves in normal driving in different weather conditions before u start playing with them.

I'm not having a go just going on all the things u have written in your posts in the past Minime

Im impressed you can deduct such a profile on me, purely from my previous posts on the econometer's accuracy, a dodgy speedo and wanting to increase induction roar through using an aftermarket filter.

My first car (7yrs ago) was a '71 1256cc Vauxhall Viva, then a '79 Opel Ascona 2.0SR, then a '78 Manta Berlinetta, before moving over to FWD.

As an 18 year old I had no problems getting the arse out in the Vauxhall/GM/Opels, and neither did any of them catch me out. Christ, even my 205 turbo diesel would lift-off oversteer on wet roundabouts. Yet, despite blatent arsing about in cars over the years, I had my 1st crash when an E30 caught me out driving normally (not trying to drift, as stated in my original post) - hence the question.

[dogsdanglies]

I am actually 18 and consider myself to be a safe driver, and only street drift in the wet (top keep the speeds low), only drift at night, and a places there is no traffic. I dont think all 18 y/o have to be chavs driving like twats in 30mph limits.

Anyway why not go to a drift practice day, cost around Ԛ£50-100, get loads of tuition, loads of sideways lunacy, and nothing to crash into.

[astondg]

Thats called cadence braking I think.

Ok, thanks.

I was 18 when I got my 323i (20 now) and I only drove sensibly on public roads, obeyed the rules and speed limits, didn't slide the car around, etc., and I still do. Almost as soon as I got it I took it to a race track and dirt circuit racing to improve my driving and learn about the car (I actually finished 3rd in class in my first season). Also I had already completed basic and performance driver training courses and not long after I got it I went to a skid pan driver training day and a couple of other driver training tack days.

So not all 18 year olds fit that sterotype.

Aston

[Andy_magic]

Good on you, when I was your age I drove like an idiot.

I think the 'nova massive' don't do younger drivers any favours, I never race anyone like that because normally they just wait until the next village or town and overtake you there.

[Simon13]

My apologies Minime, i have mistaken you for someone else sorry