Different 325i engine specs??

[FraserM]

Just a quick question, does a 325i sport engine put out more that a 325i se engine. Wanting to do a conversion from 320 and cannot find any decent "sport" engines but have seen a few "se's". Wondered if they were the same engine. I know about the gearing and diff differences.

Cheers Fraser.

[Speedtouch]

Same power rating - 171bhp.

[WillG]

yeah they are the same but there ae late and early m20b25 engines, early are 9.7:1 i think and late are 8.8:1

[gcorky]

auto data splits into 3:

prefacelift 171
post no cat 171
post with cat 170

these are all obviously looking the same/similar...but drive very different.......trim models have no bearing on engine fitment......i.e sport...se...touring all share same engines.

[FraserM]

Great, cheers for the info, you can always rely on the zone.

[Ant]

look on the inlet side, down where the blovk and sump dude, you should see a flat area with engine numbers, one to look for is 25 E, thats the higher compression engine from a prefacelift car, the 88 on lumps are marked 25 K

late 8.8:1 lumps are 160 hp, I dont care the claimed figure is unchanged from the 9.75:1 engines, never seen one make stock on the rollers, wheras pre 87 almost always make the grade if in good fettle.

[snoops]

what engin would i have ive got a october 1987 325ise but with plastic bumpers and facelift lights and pre facelift spoiler

[reggid]

look on the inlet side, down where the blovk and sump dude, you should see a flat area with engine numbers, one to look for is 25 E, thats the higher compression engine from a prefacelift car, the 88 on lumps are marked 25 K

late 8.8:1 lumps are 160 hp, I dont care the claimed figure is unchanged from the 9.75:1 engines, never seen one make stock on the rollers, wheras pre 87 almost always make the grade if in good fettle.

did you put them on the rollers 15 years ago? that would be a better way to tell rather than more recent results where you never really know the condition of the engine, exhaust and fuelling.

The 325i here (8.8 cat) make around 100 rwkw mark and the s50b30 make around 165 rwkw which are about proportionally correct for 125kw and 210kw respectively

http://www.mercurymotorsport.com.au/eve ... /index.htm

given that the idea of bhp is a bit flawed (you can't accurately know what the drivetrain losses are short of actually measuring bhp the same way they are rated i.e. engine out) it just means that the 9.7 are making a bit more hp than the 8.8 cars in their old age but the 9.7 may have been more than 171 to start with

[Speedtouch]

What actually changed to alter the CR/power output between early and late engines - block or head (I'm guessing block, after reading Ant's intriguing post in this thread...).

Also to get a later engine back up to 9.75 CR do you skim the block or the head, and if you do this will it then run like a pig on unleaded with pinking, etc.?

Cheers!

[reggid]

pistons changed, probably exhaust manifold and the cat which is the killer IMO (at least with a 160k old cat)

[ajm-e30]

hasnt the sport got a different crank??

[Morat]

No

[kam-325i]

How did they change the pistons ?

Increase the dome (inverted) on top of the pistion ?

ETK list's pistons for 256K engine (lower compression) as "Weight Improved".....mmmm

[Richy325iTouring]

look on the inlet side, down where the blovk and sump dude, you should see a flat area with engine numbers, one to look for is 25 E, thats the higher compression engine from a prefacelift car, the 88 on lumps are marked 25 K

late 8.8:1 lumps are 160 hp, I dont care the claimed figure is unchanged from the 9.75:1 engines, never seen one make stock on the rollers, wheras pre 87 almost always make the grade if in good fettle.

i have and i have the print out to prove it

[M5pilot]

I'm glad this question has been asked yet again to remind all of the muppets out there that a SPORT engine is no more powerful than any other 325i engine.

This is aimed at the BS'ing motor traders who think they know everything because they have "owned" so many of these cars in the past. The reason the sport may feel a little more peppier is because in most cases it has a shorted final drive and a short ratio gearbox.

ITS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EFFING ENGINE!!! AND YES, THE EFFING ECU IS THE SAME ASWELL!!....So stop trying to sell people "sport" ecu's.

Rant over.

Sal

[kam-325i]

There is no such thing as a "sport" 2.5 engine

Thanks for the codes sal......ive found i've got a low compreesion engine 25 6k
you will find it right next to the engine mount, on the right, the code is the top line.

[Speedtouch]

Never mind, at least you can whack a turbo straight onto the low-compression lumps...

[kam-325i]

Never mind, at least you can whack a turbo straight onto the low-compression lumps...

Ooooo...Really ?????

[reggid]

look on the inlet side, down where the blovk and sump dude, you should see a flat area with engine numbers, one to look for is 25 E, thats the higher compression engine from a prefacelift car, the 88 on lumps are marked 25 K

late 8.8:1 lumps are 160 hp, I dont care the claimed figure is unchanged from the 9.75:1 engines, never seen one make stock on the rollers, wheras pre 87 almost always make the grade if in good fettle.

i have and i have the print out to prove it

i am sceptical of bhp readings from dynos becasue 170bhp from the dyno doesn't actually mean 170 bhp as originally rated by BMW which is by a completely different method. The correlation between the two (i.e. what effect the driveline losses have) are too complicated to predict to that level of accuracy and thats not even considering the calibration of the dyno and settings used.

[Speedtouch]

So how did BMW originally rate them? I just go on the good old 'arse dyno' myself; as long as it hauls my butt down the road at a reasonable pace I'm happy...

[Turbo-Brown]

Never mind, at least you can whack a turbo straight onto the low-compression lumps...

Nothing to stop you bunging a turbo or two on the high comp motor either

[anton]

over hear we got the e30 325is, this was a 2door, and was a 2.7litre motor.
not sure the bhp specs.. then again.. we also got the e30 333i, which essentially was the 540i motor put inside the e30 for production car racing purposes. bmw had to sell a couple to make it enter production car. i think only 5000 or so were produced. customers had a choice of either aircon or powersteering.. simple wasnt space for both... or so ive heard.

cheers
anton
cape town,south africa

ps: we never got the e30 m3 here.

[reggid]

only 5000!! there are less than 1000 325is's (2.5L) downunder so 5000 is shitloads

[reggid]

So how did BMW originally rate them? I just go on the good old 'arse dyno' myself; as long as it hauls my butt down the road at a reasonable pace I'm happy...

engine dyno (or used to be called a pony brake aka measures brake horsepower) so no driveline losses and in a much more controlled environment in terms of ambient temp RH etc.

Don't get me wrong dynos are useful but they don't measure the real bhp and were never intended to do so and as long as people use the numbers that are spat out from the machine in a sensible way then its fine.

[bobafett]

over hear we got the e30 325is, this was a 2door, and was a 2.7litre motor.
not sure the bhp specs.. then again.. we also got the e30 333i, which essentially was the 540i motor put inside the e30 for production car racing purposes. bmw had to sell a couple to make it enter production car. i think only 5000 or so were produced. customers had a choice of either aircon or powersteering.. simple wasnt space for both... or so ive heard.

cheers
anton
cape town,south africa

ps: we never got the e30 m3 here.

ooh i want one of them 333i sounds great, must go like the said siht of the blanket !

[anton]

the e30 333i here in south africa was a joint BMW motorsport south africa and ALPINA project, i think bmw south africa flew down a few engineers from alpina or some such... the 5000 figure might be wrong.. but remember.. this is back in 1989 or whatever... there are perhaps fewer than 1000is's down under but originally there were probably more.

i think in south africa there are probably way less than one hundred 333i's left... i'm no expert on the topic but as far as i know, when a manufacturer wants to enter production car racing, they have to actually produce the car for the public at large... i think the minimum they must produce is 5000 or so..

opel(or vauxhall as its known in england) here in south africa produced a "kadett" known as the "superboss"im
with the cosworth head n' all.. only 1000 were made.. same story.. they wanted to enter production car etc.. so thats what they did...

imagine fitting a 540i motor inside a e30 chassis.. now thats an engineering feat IMHO.

a question to all?

if so, how much quicker is a e30 325i than a e36 325i????

dont know the official 0-100kmh/0-60mph specs...

cheers
Anton

IASCA SOUND QUALITY READY E30 IN THE MAKING...FEATURING...NAKAMICHI..JL AUDIO...STINGER...KEF
WATCH THIS SPACE

[DieselMeister]

i'm no expert on the topic but as far as i know, when a manufacturer wants to enter production car racing, they have to actually produce the car for the public at large... i think the minimum they must produce is 5000 or so..

The good old days of homologation

Now all we get is E90 2 litre 4cyl 320is for the WTCC. It has some nice detail engineering but not even 200bhp? Please.

I want to see some racing series with proper homologation rules - then we'll get some interesting motors!

[Ant]

I was under the impression the 333i was a motronic 732 engine ( e23 ) and box in a 2 door shell ( with metzler bodykit, similar to the Tech 1 style)

unless they changed for the facelift to the M60/2 lump ?

[DieselMeister]

I'm sure it wasn't a V8 as well but iits got me thinking about all the tasty models BMW could have, if offered the incentive......

Like a CSL engined 1 Series, with carbon doors, roof amd bonnet; wider track, M-Diff, mag wheels etc etc.

[Speedtouch]

Anyone happen to know the engine number when BMW changed from high (9.7:1) to low (8.8:1) compression on the M20b25? I had a look at my block but couldn't find the 25 E or 25 K lettering. My engine no. is 20264396, Build Date Jul 1988 (Wk28).

Cheers,

[kam-325i]

The 25 E/K mark is right next to the engine mount on the intake side. you will see a small rasied, machined flat section, 30mm X 60mm approx, with the numbers stamped on. The numbers relating to the compression are the top ones.

[Speedtouch]

I did look, for quite a long time, with a torch. All I could see was an '88' in the area you mention

[Speedtouch]

Finally found it tonight Kam; I had to use a wire brush to clear the crud off the flat section you mentioned - the numbers are pretty small and not very clear to make out (had to rub them with grubby fingers to even see them!)

Anyway, the effort paid off: I have the prized 25 6E block

Engine no. matches the official BMW listing/registration document too - which is nice.

Thanks again for the info

[drewjak]

ive been swopping a 2.0 for a 2.5 today in my motor, if i had`nt read this thread this morning i would have never known about these numbers, but i checking......................................................................................................

which was a bit of a bonus

[Speedtouch]

Nice one! Now I'm wondering what the extra '2' following the E/K represents - mine has that 'too'...