Project-M45 super charger (developments)

[jkarran]

4 or 5mm radius on the runners should help them flow better but it'll be a pig to do inside that stainless section. Switching to button head bolts (with decent locktite to prevent the engine from swallowing them!) instead of the studs will probably also help flow.

Neat idea using the heat exchanger as a drawbolt to hold the end plates on, good for servicability. Are you going to include any kind of pressure release to guard against backfire damage?

How are you planning to make the heat exchanger? The idea is starting to grow on me especially as it can be made to look very neat.

jk

[appletree]

i'll have ago at doing the runners tomorrow night might put a vertical boring bar in the miller and then use that to put the radius on. like the idea of the button heads i was going to use ny-lock nuts and lock tight but button heads would be be better like you said. only problem is there M7 so i will have to try and get some this weekend from the auto jumble.

the heat exchanger idea is to get two 1 1/2" sold alloy bar then bore a 8/10mm hole down the centre for the water to flow down with a " u2 bend at the en to return the water down the second tube, the tubes will have fins cut in to them around the diameter to allow the air to cool alike the laminover tubes lentec posted the link to in the first page

[jkarran]

Took some pics tonight, I don't know if this will work for long as they're hosted on flickr but I can't get them to work with a hyperlink to that site (one of their terms) - anyone know how?

Sorry they're not E30 but they are Eaton M45 pics. The engine is a 2003 fuel injected R1, 998cc, 20V, 165ish bhp. Only mods so far are sump baffles and sump chop to improve ground clearence. The car is a Raw Striker, ~400kg, lsd - bonkers



Ok there's one E30 pic. My beloved (currently broken) night rally car is awaiting a 35mm lift at the front end and a working fuel system.



Front view showing the cover that will come off to be replaced with a power takeoff from the crank (rhs of picture).



A top view of the plenum/intercooler core showing one of the beaten endcaps taped roughly in place. These will be cut to final shape and welded in last. The IC will be force fed cold air from the nose using an R1 rad fan in a duct.



Overview showing the rad shroud that (once inside the pointy nose) makes a front mount IC inconvenient.



View of the M45 in its aproximate final position. Two engine mounts have been removed (position of front mount shown by ruler) and will need to be modified to fit over the SC. Unfortunately it is tilted ~15deg off normal to the bottom engine (and SC) mounts which means the mounting spacers will be trickier to make. Also the inlet is partially blocked by the gear shifter bellcrank so that will have to be moved or modified. Ho hum, if it was easy everyone would be doing it right?

As the inlet is confined and a complex shape I'm planning to sculpt it in air drying clay, fiberglass over it then jetwash out the clay to get a perfectly formed, free flowing duct. I'll let you know if it works

The outlet will be equally complex to clear the engine mounts and chassis but that will be a mix of welded ally and silicone bends, should look trick but the cost

The IC is a CooperS one with its end tanks cut off, the top will weld to the plenum and the bottom will have a new hand beaten end tank with the inlet where I want it (and circular).

Anyway, sorry if people don't like non BMW pics.

If flickr pull the links try this http://www.flickr.com/photos/47666095@N00/

jk

[stuartgallafant]

matt and matts dad... you are heroes!!!

that project looks awesome, and im so jealous!! well done guys, you must be chuffed!!

[appletree]

looks cool jkarren, top stuff. hope fully i am going to get mine in place for a dry test on the car either later today or tomorrow!!

[appletree]

got my manifold back from being welded up yesterday so though id have a good at putting it all on the car to see what the next stage is and how much space i have to play with.


Old inlet and injector rail removed and replaced with new set up.






the super charger all bolted up on the manifold looking sweet






Got a small problem with the resivour so i'am going to use a remote type mounted some ware close with this out the way there should be enough room to put a bend on the S/C inlet and bring the inlet facing back towards the front of the car and the air filter

If anyones got any other ideas please post up

[schuey]

OOOOh so tempting!

[lentec]

Your not haning around on this one

Are tou going to run the pipe back towards the manifold and under the charger? Only the angles needed look enough to send you
Also have you considered master cylinder / servo conversion, i seem to remember a thread a while ago?

[appletree]

nope, moving both resivours and then a 180 bend coming from the S/C inlet towards the pass wing and back towards the airfilter. bit of a ball ache but there is enough room to do it with out restricting the flow to much, should be ok. douning atlanta have don the same type of thing

[jkarran]

Wow, that looks

It's almost as if that was meant to sit there. Is there still room for the throttle body, I'm assuming it used to be somewhere around where the Eaton now is?

James

[Flindo]

nice matt

from adam (matts cuz)

[schuey]

I was also wondering where the throttle body goes????

[appletree]

cheers lads, al post a pic up of the throttle body postion when i get a minute, had a slight problem with the manifold so i've had to get a bit welded in my mistake though

[Flindo]

what disc you now then?

[Andy335Touring]

what disc you now then?

eh ?

[appletree]

ya i thought that??

[appletree]

Heres a few up to date pics of the project

I've made a plate to mount the throttle body on, it was a right PITA to make as i had to take the oval out with a rotary burr and a file and then a small flap wheel, as i dont have CNC any were and its not that important to pay some one to use theres


A pic of the plate from the front, dont worry it will not be this big and once ive got the final position of the throttle body i will cut it down to a better shape.



The plate from the back, as you may be able to see in the pic there isnt much room around the master cylinder so ive had to get a 1/2 " strip welded in the under side of the manifold to make the S/C sit higher up in the bay giving more room around the master cylinder.



and finaly this it the sort of position the throttle body will end up in.

The idea is to try and construct a plenum in the space between the bulk head and the mounting plate to connect the S/C inlet with the throttle body

[schuey]

I see now! That works in a totally different way to my old Polo G40 did,on them the filter goes on the s/c inlet via a short pipe-the outlet pipe blows through the intercooler and another pipe in to the throttle body.
That way the air from the charger at approx 6psi can be controlled on ts way to the inlet manifold as per any normally aspirated car.

The way yours looks to me is that the throttle body is before the charger therefore the boost will enter the engine with no control,either blowing the spark out or giving you some auto acceleration

I take it yours works by stopping the air entering the charger in the first place-hence no boost........

It looks a very nice job though and if I had the cash I would be on ebay now looking for a charger!

[Demlotcrew]

^ Yep i was thinking the same

Andrew

[old_skool]

Sorry dude, haven't got any ideas but that looks superb. Make sure you make templates of whatever you fabricate then you might be able to market a kit for it or at least help out others.

Have you considered moving the servo over 40mm the same as I am doing for the S50, then using a golf servo? It's pretty straightforward. You'd have to remake the pipework to the master cylinder but could save more time and result in a better finish?

Good luck with it and keep up the good work.

OldSkool

[appletree]

Ya schuey that it if i stop the air going in to the super charger it can make any boost! the mini is the same and quite alot of other cars! the Downing atlanta Kit for the Z3 is also done in the same way.

As for the cost, its not that much, am 19 and on an apprentice wage

The chargers cost me £180 and £200 ( ones a spare for my dad if mine works out good i think he will build one) and the metal was free from work but would have only cost £50 for the bits i used anyway. as for the machining and things i guess thats where the cost will be if you don't have access to a lathe and milling machine or know anyone with them

[schuey]

I can get access to the machinery needed as all bar a couple of my mates are engineers
Quite happy to do the work myself too,just too poor to buy the charger,thats the joy of a mortgage two kids and flying is the most expensive hobby/career change ever(spent 10k on it this year alone ).

When you get it finished I wouldn't mind a look since im only 35min away

I loved the supercharger performance on my G40,except when it blew apart and filled the intercooler,throttle body and inlet manifold with little bits of ally cost a grand to put right and i'm still pi$$ed off about it 5 years later coz the bloke who sold me the charger for £900 cash wouldn't give me a free standard air filter worth a fiver

[jkarran]

Still looking good Matt, I like the idea of the plate and plenum over the Eaton inlet, it neatly gets around a number of problems and provides a mount for the TB. I'd dismissed it on mine as I thought there wasn't room but I think I'm going to go back and have another look having seen yours.

Progress on mine is slow, what was to be a simple mod to my engine mounting frame to hold the SC has turned into a full blown fabrication job in its own right but I'm getting there. Will post some more pics when the christmas drinking season finally allows me to get back to doing some work!

jk

[appletree]

just looked back at your picks Jkarren an thought if you turned the S/C till the out let was facing upwards you cound get away with using a cut down and welded mini outlet to the I/C. just a thought, but you probably abit far in the build for that know.

if you havent al ready check it out on the ETK

Also the mount/plate i made to hold the throttle body/plenum inlet could be realy small if you cut it right down

SCHUEY, seen as your a pilot you could nearly fly to my house!! i'am about 10miles from Gamston airport if you know it???

[schuey]

I know gamston well,It was the first place I flew to on my own!

Will sort a little trip over in the new year since its only a 20 min flight for me rather than a 1hr and a bit drive!

[Turbo-Brown]

Wouldn't you be better off keeping the volume between the throttle and the charger as small as possible?

I'd imagine that having a large plenum could make your throttle response a bit vague for large changes in throttle opening?

Just a thought.

Mightily impressed by the pace you're working at dude!

[appletree]

cheers turbo brown, i know what you mean and i had thought about the response suffering due to the plenum but theres just not enough space to put the throttle body were i would prefer so its abit of a compromise

[max318i]

I'm following your project with great interest! Supercharged m42's aren't a common thing. I saw the downing atlanta kit and tought it would be great to "copy" it and beat 325i and who knows m3's !

I wish you best of luck and hope to do the same thing somewhere next summer, when there's time and a little money.

Keep the pics coming and i hope to see it run soon!

Cheers

[appletree]

me 2 Max! and don't worry if it does work out ok i'll be hear to help!! i keep tryin to post up as many pics as i can so hopefully anyone whos intrested will be able to follow or get inspiration from the project!!

could soon be a M42 S/C club, lol

[appletree]

Had a few good days over the holiday and got quite abit done!

the first thing i did was to modify the manifold to give me some better space to clear the master cylinder, this ment cutting the manifold down one side pulling it open and welding a 1/2" strip in the gap only i managed to split the manifold in two as i had to keep grinding a deeper and deeper grove in to the oposite side to try and make it open.

any way i got the strip welded in and all i have to do now is to polish out the weld on the top to make it look pritty.

here apic of the new cross section.



the next thing i did was to make up some plates to cover both ends of the manifold.



my first idea was to use the laminova cooling bars like draw bars to pull the end caps on to the manifold but i've since changed my mind as i think there my be to much movement/stress under the haeting/cooling and expantion of the different metals (stainless and Aluminium), so i am going to cap one end off and use a plate,flange and gasket toseal the manifold and still grant me accsess to the bolts inside.

heres a pic of the end plate, this will be the end near the fire wall and will be welded in place.



this is the front flange plate, this will be welded on and then the middle ground/machined out to make a hole thats just big enough for me to get my had through to tighten the bolts up, there will then be a gasket and a second plate that will tighten up to it using the 4 bolts in each corner.



A first idea of how my laminova cooling tubes may sit in the manifold.

Not decided weather to go with round or square tubes ( square would be round in the middle of each fin as the fins will be made using a lathe) square would give the air the longest contact time but does'nt flow nicely

what do you all Think???

[benjy]

To increase the surface area and promote a more efficent heat transfer you'd be better using thin-walled copper tubes of smaller diameter and run maybe have 4 "runs" with fins for more contact..........thats how im plannin mine. got to say im really impressed with both the speed and quality of the work youve done mate, kudos to you!!! What "ecu" are you planin on using (megasquirt/Omex/etc)? an what sort of power you headin for? Cheers an keep up the inspiration!!!!!

[jkarran]

What are you planning to do to make the heat exchanger, use a thin parting tool to cut thin fins then bore the center out? If so, it's not going to give you a very big surface area for the air or the water to contact At least the aluminium conducts well.

You could mill/slit some slots down the length of the cooler to increase the external surface area and increase flow turbulance over the cooler. Or perhaps machine a very deep screw thread down the length of the bar then slit it several times lengthways, that should ensure a really turbulant flow over the cooler.

If you want to keep the form simple I'd have thought square section would give better results for the least machining effort.

To increase internal surface area for the water could you bore 3 narrow holes rather than 1 large one, it'll give a larger wetted area for a similar volume. I think this could well be more trouble than it's worth!

I did wonder if I could get copper washers to solder to copper pipe to make something similar, mostly because my lathe's too small to make one from solid Air/air still seems simplest for me.

As to the location or orientation of my M45... you're right, having the exit facing up would have been ideal but it's just sods law, it only fits on its side or exhaust down. At least on its side it's easy enough to mount.

Whoever mentioned the volume between the TB and inlet has made an important point, I'd do all you can to keep that small as the mixture will lean off when you shut the throttle reducing fuel. On the inlet topic, it might also be worth porting the Eaton inlet, it's a horrible shape isn't it!

jk

[keri-WMS]

What about a nice accurate bore down the water channel, then press in a row of pre-machined agitators, maybe like swiss-cheese drilled baffles? You should get decent heat conduction from pipe-to-baffle if the fit is accurate enough, plus the water will have a very large surface area to take the heat from. The coolant doesn't need to have a nice "flowed" path like the air does, in fact the more direction changes the better...

If you wanted it in one piece you could press one baffle in place, then hold it in a vice/chuck while spinning the tube on a lath to do a spot of DIY friction welding!!!!

(only joking, please don't!!!! )


One slight worry I've got with this whole setup in general (if it's going to be a single pipe) is that one end will be much hotter than the other. That will make the cylinder at the hot end more likely to get detonation and pinking etc...

[schuey]

Why have you chose this method instead of an intercooler out of interest?

[appletree]

Right
Here goes (in no particular order) my dad had sugested machining a thread instead of parting slots as you always try to push on too quick when parting tools dig in and shit happens , with a thread you can take small cuts and prehaps get on better plus no messing about indexing . I shall drill the hole out after cutting fins incase it goes all wibily wobbaly

Air to water was chosen out of neatness and practicality, i initially started making brackets to mount in place of alternator and have a volvo intercooler in front of radiator but changed my mind as i could see more and more dificulties making neat mounts brackets adaptor flanges etc whilst making a professional looking result.

Regarding the heat gradient i intend two coolers in parallel but fed cold water from opposite ends which although not perfect should even things out . My dad favours square finned tubes as the contact time will be longer (distance velocity he says) and greater cooling area but i am concerned about the increased restriction.

kerrie KMS-Have steered clear of fabricated bits and two many slots etc incase any bits fatigue off and go in engine as the eaton charger makes the air pulsate more than a turbo (more shit happening).

Hopefully using megasquirt, need to do more research on recirculating dump valves and pressure relief valves

As for BHP i will be like a dog with 2 dicks if i can get 200BHP something which seems realistic

Jkaran not quite with you on the t/b inlet thing I am aiming for TB>SC>COOLER the manifold volume will be reduced with the cooler inside.

Finally the more I read and with the intended valve arrangement the heat generated when off boost will be greatley reduced so everything should be cool when the boost comes along bringing with it the heat. Hopefully adequate for normal road use although not as good on the track or for sustained boost