E30 M3 vs. E36 M3

[Davenotouring]

Gary,

Power isn't the main concern, I'd love an E30 M3, I think fun is the main issue, I'm not (anymore ) too bothered about BTG times, more about 'driver satisfaction'.

I think a well setup E36 would provide good enjoyment, but I can't help but think an E30 would be more raw.

I think your last comment sums it up, buy with head = E36, buy with heart = E30.

[maxfield]

Go with your heart not with your head.

But i think the best thing to do is try and get a ride in both of the cars to close to spec as what you want.

[billgatese30]

if your after a pure track car why not go for somthing like this

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/119283.htm

or this

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/118586.htm

[Davenotouring]

Too be honest, I think they are too dangerous (read - I'm scared) for track! There is no protection! And I have little restraint when on track.

Plus they are a little small for me.

[eamo]

If I was buying with my head E36
If I was buying with my heart E30......

Gary

well summed up!!

[northloop]

if your after a pure track car why not go for somthing like this

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/119283.htm

or this

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/118586.htm

The armco is very close and very hard at the ring ....... You can also be out of drivers mirrors in those little beasties

[billgatese30]

this is very tue, i forgot it would be a ring weapon

[Davenotouring]

Chris,

For a trackcar, you are right, they really are the best, most raw car you can get!

[billgatese30]

yep, i was out in a (very) well driven 911 GT3 a month or two back around oulton park, and the only thing to overtake us was two westfield's, the one with slicks was unreal

[M5pilot]

Dave,

The E36 3.0 is an extremely capable machine once you have some decent coilovers on there and the suspension set up properly.

There is a guy called Jasper over on the e36coupe forum who has a 3.0 M3 with a carbon Airbox and Schrick Cams. It's been on a mini diet and pulls 12.9's at Santapod.

On track I've been out with Piers Ross who has a 3.2 Evo with Leda suspension and some very tasty engine mods. The thing is an absolute beast and only the GroupN E30 M3 on the same track was very slightly faster.

I've been out in Piers's very well setup E36 and Nigel's 290 bhp E30 M3. I'd have to say the E36 would be my choise without having to spend £15,000.

An E36 M3 with a BBK, good suspension and even some light engine tuning is a serious weapon.

With your driving abilities I think you'll be extremely quick in one.

Sal

[northloop]

With your driving abilities I think you'll be extremely quick in one.

Sal

Kiss arse

He's a loon, nothing more nothing less

[323i_rare]

Most people tend to go with eibach pro street s coilovers at a snip over £700 new.

However, kw stage 3 is popular but looking towards £1300...

[Simon]

What about an S52 engined E30 M3

[M3Compact]

My compact rally car uses an E36 M3 Evo drivetrain. (E30 M3 rear end.)

I'm skinting myself and sacrificing competing to build another (lighter version), hopefully using an E30 M3 engine and gearbox.

Nuff said for my opinion.

E30 M3s are a very different animal to E36s or E46s or CSLs, LHD pi55es me off, other than that I'd take the E30 every time.

[Foomanchu]

http://www.mobile.de/SIDB2-tpEF-wqfRK1- ... 1237322544&

Check this out a Lhd e36 m3 for under a 1000 euros it might be stuffed as I can't read german I only drive german.....

Any way E30 M3 all the way as said before track car with road manners..
so much fun..

Lui

[Davenotouring]

With your driving abilities I think you'll be extremely quick in one.

Sal

Kiss arse

He's a loon, nothing more nothing less

This is true! Just lucky! (Touchwood!)

Simon, I'd love an S52 engined E30 M3, but that's big cost and effort!

Will be keeping my eyes open in the new year for an E36 M3.

Sal....is Jaspers one Silver? I think I've seen it at Pod, quick and sounds lovely!

[reggid]

s52 is US only POS engine, what you really mean is a s50b32.

An e36 m3 is ultimately a far superior car and i wouldn't hesitate in getting one over a e30 m3 if i had to make the choice. For an e30 m3 to be as fast as a e36 m3 in any type of race requires too much of a comprimise for a street car IMO. The e30 m3 as a bone stock car is overated IMO

[Theo]

For an e30 m3 to be as fast as a e36 m3 in any type of race requires too much of a comprimise for a street car IMO.

Considering that the car is to be used as a 'track car' that is fairly irrelevant. To say that an e36 m3 is a far superior car to the e30 m3 is quite a statement as well!

[GermanGorilla]

Hi,

Reggid- Everybody is entitled to their opinion, so respect on that front.

But to say that a vehicle that flexes upto 20% more in standard form
and is far superior to the other vehicle, which just happens to be the most successful Touring Car of all time,
is a very rash statement.

In standard trim the E36 is of course quicker,
will stop in a shorter distance, and is more modern in many ways.

However, put a 215 BHP E30 M3 against a 300 BHP E36 M3 Evo,
in town or on some curvy B roads, and the Old Age Pensioner will
still give the young pretender a very good run for his money.

Spend 10 K on each and all the Moton or Ohlins suspension in the world
will still not make the E36 handle anything like am E30 M3.

The very first mod recommended on a E36 M3 is the chassis brace, why
to try and make the front and rear go round the corner togther, the first
mods on E30 M3 are more power, why because in standard form the
chassis can easily handle it.

10 k Spent on standard cars would give you a 270 BHP M3, which
on power to weight ratio alone, it would be the more powerful car.
10k on the e36, would be chassis brace, about 5k on the suspension,
and the rest on suspension bushes, roll bars, and few other mods.
At 300 BHP the S50 B32 is already near its peak, so to gain another
40+ BHP out of it would be serious money, 15 k plus,
and then it would only just be slightly in front on the power to weight,
but nowhere near as sublime on the handling as the E30 M3.

You may well prefer the E36 and if you do fine, its still a very capable car
but due to its design and structural process it will never be an E30 M3.
It took BMW a while, but even they conceeded in about 95-96 that their
creation of over a decade previous, would and still is,
a very hard act to follow.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[M5pilot]

With your driving abilities I think you'll be extremely quick in one.

Sal

Kiss arse

He's a loon, nothing more nothing less

This is true! Just lucky! (Touchwood!)

Simon, I'd love an S52 engined E30 M3, but that's big cost and effort!

Will be keeping my eyes open in the new year for an E36 M3.

Sal....is Jaspers one Silver? I think I've seen it at Pod, quick and sounds lovely!

Dave, it is silver and sounds very good. It's only a 3.0 and puts down 335bhp.

You need to experience it, I can arrange this.

Sal

[Davenotouring]

Up for it!

It was one of the cars we were all very impressed with at the Pod!

[georob]

Stock E30 M3 vs Stock E36 vs Stock Ford SportKa

Hmmm, whats a lot faster round the track than the SportKa, not the E30

E36 my choice

[M5pilot]

Get a 215 bhp E30 M3 round a track with a Sportka and things will be very different.

Sal

[M5pilot]

Up for it!

It was one of the cars we were all very impressed with at the Pod!

It will only be a passenger ride as me and Jasper ain't the tallest of creatures. The seats are fixed u see

Sal

[Davenotouring]

That's cool mate! Wouldn't expect to drive a car of someone who I don't know.

How about you let me know when he plans to do a trackday next, and I'll book up too. I can have a passenger ride then!

I've just booked Snetterton, for the 20th of Jan. If you/he are up for it.

[Foomanchu]

In response to the Ford Sport Ka vs e30 M3 on fifth gear that was and is a stupid comparison....reason a very early and leggy e30 M3 (195bhp) but then recently seen to produce around 180bhp.... and also Tiff was having alot of sideways action rather than really concentrating on a fast clean lap.... a Sport Ka and an M3 please...a frikin Focus RS would struggle in most cases as the way it drives it's more likely to throw you off the road in an big mess....


Lui

[billgatese30]

other than that, Tiff had to hand it back to an owner, he gave the sport ka back to ford uk, do you really think he would have had to explain what happened to the breaks, clutch, gearbox three sets of tyres etc etc to ford.......id oubt it........he would have when he handed it back to arron who had to drive the car home

[playo]

All i can say is,

I owned an e36 m3 evo for a year....

And sold it to get an e30 m3.

[Foomanchu]

And are you happy with your purchase...?



Is that yours in the your picture ?

[reggid]

Hi,

Reggid- Everybody is entitled to their opinion, so respect on that front.

But to say that a vehicle that flexes upto 20% more in standard form
and is far superior to the other vehicle, which just happens to be the most successful Touring Car of all time,
is a very rash statement.

In standard trim the E36 is of course quicker,
will stop in a shorter distance, and is more modern in many ways.

However, put a 215 BHP E30 M3 against a 300 BHP E36 M3 Evo,
in town or on some curvy B roads, and the Old Age Pensioner will
still give the young pretender a very good run for his money.

Spend 10 K on each and all the Moton or Ohlins suspension in the world
will still not make the E36 handle anything like am E30 M3.

The very first mod recommended on a E36 M3 is the chassis brace, why
to try and make the front and rear go round the corner togther, the first
mods on E30 M3 are more power, why because in standard form the
chassis can easily handle it.

10 k Spent on standard cars would give you a 270 BHP M3, which
on power to weight ratio alone, it would be the more powerful car.
10k on the e36, would be chassis brace, about 5k on the suspension,
and the rest on suspension bushes, roll bars, and few other mods.
At 300 BHP the S50 B32 is already near its peak, so to gain another
40+ BHP out of it would be serious money, 15 k plus,
and then it would only just be slightly in front on the power to weight,
but nowhere near as sublime on the handling as the E30 M3.

You may well prefer the E36 and if you do fine, its still a very capable car
but due to its design and structural process it will never be an E30 M3.
It took BMW a while, but even they conceeded in about 95-96 that their
creation of over a decade previous, would and still is,
a very hard act to follow.

Regards,
The Gorilla.

the e30 should be stiffer as it was more purpose built for racing than the e36 and it is smaller and therefore it inherently has extra stiffeness (If you scaled the e30 chassis to the size of an e36 chassis it would become less stiff).

I don't belive the statement is rash at all as the key word you sadi yourslef is most succesful touring car, but not street car in which i form the basis of my opinions.

100% standard to 100% standard the e36 is streets ahead of an e30 m3. It is much faster, has better brakes is more modern, smoother, more stable at high speed and cheaper atleast around here. The only place an e30 is better is in the tactility and response of handling but for sheer grip only in the the really twisty stuff where the added weight of the e36 hinders would the e30 be competitive. The best word to desribe the e36 is effortless were in the e30 this not the case.

If you compare a fully buit e30 m3 to a fully buit e6 m3 what is the purpose? My reasoning is that components from both common to the street car will be small and it will mererly be a e30 chassis and 4 cylinder engine and a e36 chassis and 6 cylinder engine so where do you draw the line as to saying an e30 is better than e36 when really what makes an e30m3 and e36m3 is what it comes from the factory with.

i know many e30 owners look upto the e30 m3 as a legend and it is in the racing circles but as a street car there are more comprimises to be had than an e36 m3 which is to be expected with technology chnages.

[playo]

And are you happy with your purchase...?



Is that yours in the your picture ?

Yep and Yep!!

[andye30m3]

I've got a standard 200BHP E30 M3 and a E36 M3 Evo coupe. I would say that as an every day car the E36 is better in some ways. The extra power makes overtaking easier and its prob. more comfortable. However if i had to sell one it would be the Evo as it just doesn't feel as special to drive, doesn't turn in as well and i can live with a slightly bumpy ride.

As for on the track its a similar story the E36 suffers with understeer and the brakes arn't really up to the job were as the E30 could do with just a bit more power. Maybe a 250 BHP evo sport would do the trick but then i couldn't bring myself to track an evo sport.

[c76jon]

Hi,

Reggid- Everybody is entitled to their opinion, so respect on that front.

But to say that a vehicle that flexes upto 20% more in standard form
and is far superior to the other vehicle, which just happens to be the most successful Touring Car of all time,
is a very rash statement.

In standard trim the E36 is of course quicker,
will stop in a shorter distance, and is more modern in many ways.

However, put a 215 BHP E30 M3 against a 300 BHP E36 M3 Evo,
in town or on some curvy B roads, and the Old Age Pensioner will
still give the young pretender a very good run for his money.

Spend 10 K on each and all the Moton or Ohlins suspension in the world
will still not make the E36 handle anything like am E30 M3.

The very first mod recommended on a E36 M3 is the chassis brace, why
to try and make the front and rear go round the corner togther, the first
mods on E30 M3 are more power, why because in standard form the
chassis can easily handle it.

10 k Spent on standard cars would give you a 270 BHP M3, which
on power to weight ratio alone, it would be the more powerful car.
10k on the e36, would be chassis brace, about 5k on the suspension,
and the rest on suspension bushes, roll bars, and few other mods.
At 300 BHP the S50 B32 is already near its peak, so to gain another
40+ BHP out of it would be serious money, 15 k plus,
and then it would only just be slightly in front on the power to weight,
but nowhere near as sublime on the handling as the E30 M3.

You may well prefer the E36 and if you do fine, its still a very capable car
but due to its design and structural process it will never be an E30 M3.
It took BMW a while, but even they conceeded in about 95-96 that their
creation of over a decade previous, would and still is,
a very hard act to follow.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

i think this is totally on the money

i have owned 3 e36 m3s,evo and non evo(non evo being the better car)

and lots of e30 m3s

homologation was the key to the e30s ability

tho i think it must be stressed that the e30 m3 is not a track car
its a road car that lends itself well to the track

the track e30 m3s were a lot different .the road going version was a necessity for BMW.

the e36 is a very capable car and in some circumstances is far superior to the e30 m3 but the same can be said for the e30

if its a track orientated car you want then this is the area imho where the e30 is superior to the e36 in standard road trim

jon

[m3ben05]

the track e30 m3s were a lot different .the road going version was a necessity for BMW

There is a massive difference between the road and race e30 M3's

[c76jon]

the track e30 m3s were a lot different .the road going version was a necessity for BMW

There is a massive difference between the road and race e30 M3's

absolutely

tho people refer to the road cars as track cars

then wonder why welds sstretch on strut tops and subframes break etc when they are tracked hard

jon