M30 tuning question

[LKTe30]

I am doing a m30 swap into my e30 and I am looking for some ideas for tuning.

The m30 I will be using will be a built n/a setup with:
custom 10.5:1 pistons
.5 overbore
port and polished head
5 angle valve job
probably a 284 cam
19# injectors (maybe bigger if needed)

I am going to keep the motor n/a and I'm not to knowledgable on tuning so I am looking for some advice on what I could/shuold do with this setup.

Would the stock ecu be able to run this setup?
If not should I be looking for something that controls fuel and spark?
Or should I go with just fuel?
Maybe a chip and an afpr?
Maybe a s-afc or megasquirt?

Any advice is appreciated especially since I lack knowledge in this area.

[maxfield]

maybe give mega squirt a go

maybe some ITBs?

[Toby_Unna]

i would prepare to spend a lot of money and get around 250 crank bhp

m30 is a good value swap if you're using a standard engine, but if you already think 220bhp (or whatever your m30 has as standard) won't be enough, maybe think about other options?

i'd say for the price of an m30 swap and all the work you mention you might stretch to a euro s50 or m60

19lb/hr injectors are the standard ones, will do 250bhp ish at standard pressure.

[LKTe30]

Yeah I know its not very economical but this what I decided on doing and if I get anything over 200hp at the wheels I'll be happy. I've already started on the engine work and have the resources so the machine work and assembly won't cost me as much as you would think, and I am a big fan of n/a power as opposed to turbo power.

So with that said any advice on tuning is appreciated.

Thanks

[Toby_Unna]

fair enough

well being LHD you may find you can squeeze an equal length exhaust manifold in there which should help, with either a larger throttle body or a set of six.definately use full standalone management, i have megasquirt on mine doing fuel and spark and it works very nicely. someone on this forum has larger inlet valves in his m30, and that engine certainly makes good power...

[chu346]

I'd be tempted to go for a wilder cam.

[LKTe30]

Anyone else got any advice besides going full standalone.

Also this is a track only car.

How much of a wilder cam? I didn't want to go to wild b/c of the pistons now being domed with valve pockets, and would think to much lift might cause it to be more likely a valve could hit a piston.

[Toby_Unna]

you'll get a decent performance gain by adding a well tuned MS setup.

for the price it's a good value upgrade.

[WillG]

dont see why you dont turbo, more power per £, your not going to make much on a M30 with just an cam and tuning

[Andy335Touring]

Anyone else got any advice besides going full standalone.

Also this is a track only car.

How much of a wilder cam? I didn't want to go to wild b/c of the pistons now being domed with valve pockets, and would think to much lift might cause it to be more likely a valve could hit a piston.

You can use the standard managment to run that set up so long as you have the chip programed to suit your mods.

If you have the budget though you might want to consider a stand alone ECU of some sort to get the last few percent of performance out of your engine.

As you are using custom pistons you will want to check your squish and piston/valve clearances as a matter of course.

Adding a wilder cam is going to be worth it if it's a track car but if you ever want to use it on the road then you might want to find out how stringent(sp?) your emmision laws are ?

If you look around on the net you can get cams in the 290-298 range for the M30, a schrick 284/280 is a good road cam but it runs out of fiz at about 6k rpm.

Mine is an Alpina bottom end with a C/R around 10.6:1, schrick 284/280, ported head and a stand alone ECU with no AFM.

As my engine is breathing better internally i'm hoping the next biggest restriction is the stock TB. The stock TB is about 64mm diameter, my plan if i ever get around to fitting it is to use a modified inlet manifold with a twin 60mm TB from a Ford V8 engine. Aside from the extra air it will also move the air intake over to the cold side of the engine away from the exhaust manifold so it might gain a little extra power because the air will be cooler and more dense.

This set up would be comprimized had i still got the stock management because all the air would still have to go through the AFM.



I'm going to try to use the stock M30 air box but with one little mod, the standard intake funnel thingy is too small so i've bought a sub woofer port for about £2.50 from Maplins. It's just the right size to push into the air box, i will fix it in place with a hot glue gun.

[LKTe30]

Andy, what standalone are you using, what size injectors, and do you know what kind of numbers you are putting down with that setup. And do you have any more pictures of that intake manifold, maybe of the process and of the other side.

Thanks for all the info

[Andy335Touring]

Andy, what standalone are you using, what size injectors, and do you know what kind of numbers you are putting down with that setup. And do you have any more pictures of that intake manifold, maybe of the process and of the other side.

Thanks for all the info

It's running on an Emerald ECU which is still on the original map thats why i can only guess on the power because it needs remapping.

The only power graph i've got was when the engine was in my old E34 about 3/4 years ago, mods at that time were cam/head/chip.



My injectors are 30lbs but standard ones are good for around 260bhp, the bigger injectors will hope fully be utilized after the twin TB mod and a remap.

The mounting face for the alloy plate wasn't quite flat so the short ends of the plate sit on top of the mounting and the long sides sit in the hole. This is before i enlarged the hole properly.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1961/20a58b1iq4.jpg

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/618/200504nn3.jpg

I have radiused(sp?) the holes in the adapter plate on the side that faces the inside of the manifold so the air doesn't have go over any nasty flat edges.

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/653/20a98b1ez6.jpg

This is the blanking plate, not pretty at the mo but the manifold is going to be painted in black VHT wrinkle to match my rocker cover.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/4818/20a1851me6.jpg

Thanks to Alex on here as he made me a TPS spindle adapter as the Ford TB has a flat blade spindle v's the normal "D" type spindle. The adapter is going to be held in place by the small block of Alloy in the picture with a hole in the middle, the block needs cutting down to the right shape/size and some holes drilling and tapping for the TPS fixings.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3579/20ad6f1zy3.jpg

For the throttle cable i'm using an M20 outer casing with an M30 inner cable. You also need a lead nipple on the TB end of the cable similar to those on a push bikes brakes.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3066/200601crpn0.jpg

The lead nipple was easy to mould, i made it slightly over sized then filed it down.

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/1829/205da61rje3.jpg

Sorry for the long post but i thought i'd show whats involved incase you or any one else wants to do some thing similar.

It is a fairly cheap mod as the TB's arn't expensive second hand from ebay.com

[DRIFTBOY]

Nice work Andy!

That is very interesting.

Will be great to know the results.

I'm getting the urge to have more horsies and torques now!

[Andy335Touring]

Nice work Andy!

That is very interesting.

Will be great to know the results.

I'm getting the urge to have more horsies and torques now!

The thing with this TB mod is it's good for N/A and F/I because of the location of the TB

[LKTe30]

That is nice work and some good pictures to go along with it. I am interested in seeing the outcome once your done.

Is the power graph with the alpina bottom end and the higher CR?

What would you reccomned as far as a full standalone, megasquirt or something else?

And if you had to guess what kind of wheel HP numbers do you think I will get with a full standalone and then with just a mapable chip?

[Andy335Touring]

That is nice work and some good pictures to go along with it. I am interested in seeing the outcome once your done.

No probs, but it will be a while before the remap due to lack of £Â£Ã‚£Ã‚£

Is the power graph with the alpina bottom end and the higher CR?

No, just a stock bottom end

What would you reccomned as far as a full standalone, megasquirt or something else?

It depends on your budget and how far you plan to go with your mods ?

head work/milder cam like schrick/higher C/R/BBTB will be 97%(ish ) optimized with stock management and suitable chip

F/I / ITB's or a realy big TB like mine will need a stand alone ECU.

Megasquirt is cheaper than some of the more user friendly stand alones, theres plenty of people around using it so there should be lots of help available via forums/etc.

And if you had to guess what kind of wheel HP numbers do you think I will get with a full standalone and then with just a mapable chip?

You don't get much gains per £Â£Ã‚£ going with a stand alone v's a chip unless the chip carn't run your engine properly with the mods you've got.

When i got mine i'd got plans to either use F/I or ITB's which i couldn't do very well with the stock managment.

[old_skool]

Quality post Andy

Hat's off to you. Even made perfect sense to me and I know nothing at all about M30's.

You get a gold star!

[Andy335Touring]

What, who, me ?

Make perfect sense, never !

[nickso]

andy forgive me if im being really dense but is there a reason for using the sub bit you bought as a replacement intake trumpet for your m30 airbox versus not using one at all?

mine just has the opening that you are planning on glueing your trumpet into and im wondering what difference this would make to the intake......is it just a simple case of trying to keep the intake air as far away as possible from the exhaust?

[Andy335Touring]

andy forgive me if im being really dense but is there a reason for using the sub bit you bought as a replacement intake trumpet for your m30 airbox versus not using one at all?

mine just has the opening that you are planning on glueing your trumpet into and im wondering what difference this would make to the intake......is it just a simple case of trying to keep the intake air as far away as possible from the exhaust?

It's hard to explain but the gist of it is air doesn't like going round flat/sharp edges so i'm using that sub port because it's bigger and it's opening is rounded off, not as much as the stock item but i can improve it.

If you can retain your plastic cover behind your head lights then ideally you want to have your air filter intake pipe going through it and picking up the coolest air.

It's not going to cost you loads of power if you don't it's more sort of optimizing your set up.

If you've got a Maplins near you it's worth doing because it's so cheap or replace the original one from a scrappy.

[Andy335Touring]

Just looked on the ETK and the original intake trumpet is only about £6 new.

Part No : 13 71 1 714 362

[Toby_Unna]

yeah it's a bellmouth or something? less restriction to the air anyway.

well impressed with that power/torque curve in the other thread Andy.

[Andy335Touring]

yeah it's a bellmouth or something? less restriction to the air anyway.

well impressed with that power/torque curve in the other thread Andy.

It's cool that it's got about 180lbs @1500rpm and rising, how's the TB's going ?

[Toby_Unna]

lol

well, i spent half the day making another TPS adaptor to allow me to fit a more compact sierra TPS, to clear the coolant stub. then i spent the rest of the day with the grinder and a section of transit inlet manifold trying to make a stub that i can get welded to the thermostat housing and that clears everything. it didn't go particularly well, so now i'm having a drink and wondering how i managed not to do any work all day

[nickso]

andy forgive me if im being really dense but is there a reason for using the sub bit you bought as a replacement intake trumpet for your m30 airbox versus not using one at all?

mine just has the opening that you are planning on glueing your trumpet into and im wondering what difference this would make to the intake......is it just a simple case of trying to keep the intake air as far away as possible from the exhaust?

It's hard to explain but the gist of it is air doesn't like going round flat/sharp edges so i'm using that sub port because it's bigger and it's opening is rounded off, not as much as the stock item but i can improve it.

If you can retain your plastic cover behind your head lights then ideally you want to have your air filter intake pipe going through it and picking up the coolest air.

It's not going to cost you loads of power if you don't it's more sort of optimizing your set up.

If you've got a Maplins near you it's worth doing because it's so cheap or replace the original one from a scrappy.

makes sense. i might give it a go myself. i cant use the standard parts though due to space and angles so ill have to go the same route as you