325i Touring restoration "the wrong way around"

[gareth]

i got that too wierd!

[jmc330i]

topic seems to be bugged edit: that fixed it, it had 5th page when there was only 4 pages and it said that no posts exist or someting

That happens if someone posted a post that was first on a page (page 5) and then deleted it - the system doesnt delete pages, so you get an empty page until the posts catch back up.


Back on topic - Turbo aside, the E30 engine bay does not need beating to fit the S50 engine, but with a freshly painted bay, I would protect everything you can when lowering the engine in - its a bloody tight fit.

Ive had a good look around the Limmet site before as an inspiration for my own plans and they obviously have a very large turbo, but depending on the size of the turbo, beating the inner wing probably wouldnt be needed, there is more room than there looks to be once the washer bottles etc have gone. Plating the inner wing sounds like a plan to protect it from the heat though.

[WillG]

yeah so not any beating required just maybe make a plate up and drill holes for rivets before its painted so you dont scratch paint making one up after and work out how intercooler and maybe your oil cooler need mounting and that should be it, can do diff anytime, not goning to damage paint doing that

[old_skool]

Cheers Guys, definitely food for thought.

jmc 330i, sorry I left you off my list! Doh!

I'll drop you guys a PM later and bug you for some more advice Maybe I'd be better off trying the engine in place a couple of times before the final fit to iron out any little problems and practice with the hoist a bit before painting.

So far my shopping list (with help from Ian332iSport, Brianmooooore, you guys and the rest of the zone) is:

and please correct me/add to list where required,

E36 S50 Engine (most important)
LHD E36 M3 wiring loom if possible with EWS where necessary
E46 Non M3 steering rack

5 speed, not 6 speed box - which 5 speed box do I use?
325i Propshaft?
Engine mounts?
Sump?
Radiator?
Custom made exhaust and manifold throughout - need to incorporate FI plans here?
Steering coupling?

[ian332isport]

5 speed, not 6 speed box - which 5 speed box do I use?
325i Propshaft?
Engine mounts?
Sump?
Radiator?
Custom made exhaust and manifold throughout - need to incorporate FI plans here?
Steering coupling?

5 speed box from E36 328i or 3.0L M3 (same box).
E30 M3 prop if using the above gearbox. You can also use a 328i prop if you fit an E30 centre bearing to it.
E28 M5 engine mounts (rubbers) and standard E36 mounting arms.
E34 M50 sump, oil pickup pipe, dipstick and tube. If using the 3.2 Evo engine you also need to change the oil pump for the 3.0L M3 version.
E36 M3 radiator.
See the tech articles section for the steering coupling.

Ian.

[jmc330i]

and please correct me/add to list where required,

E36 S50 Engine (most important)
LHD E36 M3 wiring loom if possible with EWS where necessary
E46 Non M3 steering rack

5 speed, not 6 speed box - which 5 speed box do I use?
325i Propshaft?
Engine mounts?
Sump?
Radiator?
Custom made exhaust and manifold throughout - need to incorporate FI plans here?
Steering coupling?

If you get an EWS engine (all 3.2Evos are), dont forget the ECU, EWS module and ignition key all from the same car - it can apparently be recoded, but most BMW breakers will sell them as a bundle (or with the engine).

5spd box from the 3.0ltr M3 or E36 328i is the larger ZF box and is heavier than the Getrag E36 box, although it maybe stronger IIRC. Using the 3.0ltr M3 ZF box means you will need an E30 M3 prop. If you use the E36 Getrag box, the E30 325i prop should be fine.
You will also need an E30 M3 diff (or other of around 3.25:1 ratio) because of the E36 gearbox ratios (1:1 5th etc).

Engine mounts are all BMW - Use the E36 alloy mounting arms (should come with engine) and E28 M5 rubber mounts. The E30 gearbox crossmember can be used with both the E36 5spd boxes.

Sump is the E34 M50 item and you also need the E34 M50 oil pick up pipe. If you use the 3.2 S50, you also need to change the oil pump for the 3.0 S50 pump (I think the M50 pump also works). This is because the 3.2 has a dual pick up pump that wont fit in the M50 sump.

Use the S50 radiator if you can and also the oil cooler.

Exhaust manifolds will be the issue in the jump between NA and FI. You will need to fab/mod the S50 manifolds to fit the E30 for NA, and a complete custom manifold will be needed for the turbo.

[gareth]

E46 Non M3 steering rack

i know the E36 rack can be fitted to a E30 but didn't know about the E46 one... what are the reasons? i had a quick skim through here but may have missed it

[ian332isport]

E46 Non M3 steering rack

i know the E36 rack can be fitted to a E30 but didn't know about the E46 one... what are the reasons? i had a quick skim through here but may have missed it

It's exactly the same fitment as the E36 rack, but has approx 3 turns lock to lock. It's a nice compromise between the E36 rack and the Z3 rack.

Ian.

[gareth]

cool

i love the mechano style designing of BMW's sometimes!!!

[jmc330i]

The same steering coupling is used between the E36/E46 rack? So replacing my E36 M3 rack with an E46 rack is a straight swap?

Any particular E46 rack?

[WillG]

there is a e34 M50 up harry bucklands right now!, get down there they will probly just rip engine out with forklift and let you whip the sump and pick up off it. its a white one up at the top on the right behind the green touring, or can upu get them off without lifting?, if you can just need them to flip it on its side which will be alot faster and cheaper

[ian332isport]

The same steering coupling is used between the E36/E46 rack? So replacing my E36 M3 rack with an E46 rack is a straight swap?

Any particular E46 rack?

Fitting an E46 rack on an E36 is a straight swap, so the same should apply to fitting an E46 rack to an E36 rack equipped E30.

Any non M E46 rack.

[WillG]

so can you get these M50 e34 sumps off without lifting engine?

[ian332isport]

so can you get these M50 e34 sumps off without lifting engine?

Not really, as the subframe gets in the way.

[jmc330i]

The same steering coupling is used between the E36/E46 rack? So replacing my E36 M3 rack with an E46 rack is a straight swap?

Any particular E46 rack?

Fitting an E46 rack on an E36 is a straight swap, so the same should apply to fitting an E46 rack to an E36 rack equipped E30.

Any non M E46 rack.

Excellent news
Although, thats more money just spent

[ian332isport]

The same steering coupling is used between the E36/E46 rack? So replacing my E36 M3 rack with an E46 rack is a straight swap?

Any particular E46 rack?

Fitting an E46 rack on an E36 is a straight swap, so the same should apply to fitting an E46 rack to an E36 rack equipped E30.

Any non M E46 rack.

Excellent news
Although, thats more money just spent

James,

You may want to hang on until I've fitted mine. I can then say for certain

Ian.

[WillG]

might be hard to get it off then but it will be dirt cheap if you can, would ring them up and make sure they dont crush it if you want it old skool because i think they are close to getting crush when they are at top, you know bucklands right?

[old_skool]

Whoa, loads of info! Thanks very much for your help so far fellas. As Gareth says, these BMW's are like meccano!

Ian, JMC, everyone, thanks for adding and discussing the list.

RE: the sump, I'm going to go to the scrappy and pick up the sump, dipstick tube, oil pick up pipe etc. this week. I still can't find a decent E36 M3 donor car, all the stuff on ebay is either the usual chavved up crap that's got more miles than the enterprise or it's far too much money. Understandable, yes I know, what do I expect.

I was hoping in the run up to Christmas that their may be a few more bargains but I think it's more likely to be early into the new year when the credit card statements hit the doormat and there are some desperate people around. Harsh I know, but hey!

The other option is to go to F AB with a pick up and a large (very large) pack of cash and pick up everything I need from there. At least then I wont have to strip everything myself and there's the warranty on the engine to consider (for what it's worth). This could save me from resorting to ebay to sell the leftovers when this is done.

Meanwhile there's lot's of other stuff to consider like getting the shell stripped, sandblasted and resprayed. This is the priority then while it's out of the way I can work on the other bits.

So, progress to date:

Today I pulled out the rest of the suspension, subframe, steering rack and mounts. Also went throught engine bay removing every clip, cable wrap, nut and bolt. I have a feeling me and RealOem are going to be very good friends soon trying to identify and replace all these nuts and bolts. These cars really are the nuts, out of all the bolts that I have removed to date, I have only had to cut one out with the die grinder.

Also removed the front panel and wings. Started to cut the spot welds so I can remove the inner front panel.

Before I get on with the rest of the pics, here's some wiring loom porn for Brian



Engine bay, picture of drivers side inner wing around to passenger side:







Jacking points and under side of the shell is in really good condition. Note my expensive Farmer style axle stands!



Old steering rack, subframe, ARB. Subframe going off to be powder coated on Monday.



Engine bay and front of chassis



Everything labelled up, not taking any chances



Master cylinder and servo, soon to leave the building for a more "compact" unit to make room for the S50 plenum.



Here's where the steel fuel lines enter the engine bay from the rear, note three pipes, fuel flow, fuel return, fuel vent.



ABS unit, I'm considering junking the ABS altogether, I never have found it to be very effective to be honest. This would simplify the engine bay and save a lot of pipe making as well. One important note, I found some corrosion on the loom plug where it enters the unit. This would be the first place to look in the event of an ABS problem in my opinion.

[maxfield]

looking good dude keep up the good work

[325bhpbruiser]

only just got onto this thread, i have far to many projects on the go ranging from jags to landrovers so cant take on an e30 to this extend till maybe the end of next year so good on your for gettin stuck in, will be refurbing the e30 to an extent but not as far as you have taken it,
will have my eye on this post every few days as i have juast read from start to present and really facinates me the dedication you have towards it. well done!

[316vinni]

Still looking good mate, i take my hat off to you. Keep going

[E30Mark]

Nice work! the ABS unit can be flipped to the underside of the inner wing if you need the room in the engine bay...

[WillG]

We got a e34 M50 sump and pickup today , should of asked first tho took us a while to work out there was 2 bolts up inside the bell housing, it had a auto box dont know if its any easier on manuals, anyway cant go wrong for £15

[WillG]

damn topics bugged with extra page again!

[WillG]

[old_skool]

Well, just a quickie.

The S50B32 is being delivered on Friday, just in time for Christmas Managed to find a 60,000 mile engine from a 1999 M3 EVO cab that had been rear ended - with full BMW history.

Got the M3 gearbox - 5 speed and rad, E46 rack etc.

Also got hold of the M50 sump, dipstick tube and oil pickup (after much fighting with it)with much help from WillG today. Cheers Will

Many thanks guys for the egging on, I'm hoping the interior and loom will be coming out tomorrow and the rest of the ABS which is going in the bin.

Then it's time to get down and dirty with some gritblasting.

I'll post more pics tomorrow night.

[JOGA]

Well, just a quickie.

The S50B32 is being delivered on Friday, just in time for Christmas Managed to find a 60,000 mile engine from a 1999 M3 EVO cab that had been rear ended - with full BMW history.

Got the M3 gearbox - 5 speed and rad, E46 rack etc.

Also got hold of the M50 sump, dipstick tube and oil pickup (after much fighting with it)with much help from WillG today. Cheers Will

Many thanks guys for the egging on, I'm hoping the interior and loom will be coming out tomorrow and the rest of the ABS which is going in the bin.

Then it's time to get down and dirty with some gritblasting.

I'll post more pics tomorrow night.

Nice work !

I really enjoy reading this. Hopefully I will get the chance to do this to my Touring within the next couple of years.

Keep up the good work. The world is watching

[old_skool]

The world is watching

Thanks JOGA

I'm on this full time until after Christmas so a lot is getting done. I will try and post some progress in the next day or so.

Iceland eh? I'll bet you're going to have a white Christmas

[JOGA]

The world is watching

Thanks JOGA

I'm on this full time until after Christmas so a lot is getting done. I will try and post some progress in the next day or so.

Iceland eh? I'll bet you're going to have a white Christmas

Look forward to see more

But i'm afraid that Christmas will be red this year. All it does is rain around here these day's

Iceland is really not a very accurate name for my contry. A more appropriate name would have been Windyland or something ...

At least for the last few years.

[old_skool]

OK, here goes. It's been a busy week on the Touring.

Stripping to a bare shell took a lot longer than I thought but hopefully I have done it in a way in which I can understand how to put it back together. I have also taken the opportunity to make notes and look up replacement part numbers as I go.

As I have now delved into the deepest reaches of the car I am surprised at what good condition it is in overall. I have found no rust whatsoever even the floorpan is like new.

The hardest part of the entire job so far has got to be removing the sunroof assembly without wrecking it. The headlining is reasonably easily but once you've got it out and understand it it's easy really. Once I had the sunroof stripped out I rebuilt it and dismantled it twice just to understand how it all worked. If I can remeber all of that in a few months time it'll be a miracle!

In order to get the fusebox out of the engine bay the whole loom has to be pulled through the firewall grommet hole. That means accessing and unclipping every part of the wiring. Not a five minute job. There may be those who might say why not cut the loom, not for me.

There is still a little way to go, I have to remove the fuel tank and pipework, rear quarter glass, windscreen and rear screen. Then just strip the doors down.

I've already done away with the ABS and am looking forward to picking through the wiring loom, all 23ft of it, and removing the ABS section. The brake servo is out and I have been looking into the difficulties in elongating the mechanism and moving the servo mount over. Doesn't look too bad a job to be honest. I didn't realise that the braking rod is a push/pull type, so making it longer shouldn't effect the throw and leverage.

It's amazing how much room the parts can take up once they are removed, I have a working area five times bigger than the car and even with that much space it's driving me mad. How people can do this on their drive

Anyhow, I haven't posted any pics for a while although I have taken over 300 so far. So here are a few taken tonight.

Shell sat on dollies. I bought the dollies from Machine mart and custom made a jig to locate into the jacking points with some mild steel and my trusy MIG Now the shell sits level and I can roll it around wherever I want. Also, because the shell is at a good height, much of the reassembly can be done leaving them in place.



Sunroof and cassette removed



Random picture of the floorpan and wiring



Being a lucky Boy, Father Christmas popped by early and dropped my presents off

[old_skool]

Ooops,

some more piccies...

[jmc330i]

Hmmm, 3.2ltr of goodness
Another sleeper touring on the way

Thats a huge amount work youre doing there, fair play to you

[old_skool]

Hmmm, 3.2ltr of goodness

Thats a huge amount work youre doing there, fair play to you

Why thanks James.

It is a lot of work. When I sit back and look at it I think "what have I done" but I've got to have the balls to see it through for my own sanity now.

[suzie650]

Can I be childish again and ask where father christmas lives?


thanks!!!

[WillG]

nice progress ! runs superb fair play removing the whole loom like that