anyone got there e30 with lpg? i'm thinking about it........

[j555boy]

anyone got there e30 with lpg?

i am really considering it on my 325i 1986 mtech 1 sport it only has 88,000 on the clock and the conversion will pay for itself within a year or two!

or do you think it will devalue the originality of the car?

i would love to do 100/120 miles for a tenner!!!!! not 60 miles for a tenner!

have been quoted £1500 to get it converted! is that a good price?

cheers jamie

[klu99apm]

I converted my 325 touring to LPG nearly 12 months ago and its great. I get around 24mpg and fill up at Morrisons supermarket near me for 39.9 pence per litre. There is a very slight loss of performance but if you really want all the performance you can switch over to petrol.

I converted my car myself for £500 with all brand new kit. If you are semi competent mechanic then its easy to do yourself -it only took me a few days.

It may devalue the originality of the car to some people, but there'll be others, like me, who want 325 performance with 316 running costs.

£1500 sounds a bit expensive to me - would have thought you could get it done cheaper than that if you don't fancy tackling it yourself.

Good luck - I thoroughly recommend it!

[j555boy]

going to have a hunt around to find a cheaper price! where did you buy your kit from? cheers jamie

[klu99apm]

I bought mine from a firm called Navitron - they are now sold by this firm http://www.epogee.co.uk/autogas.htm

Another possibility is http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/

Also ebay is of course a possibility - there's always kits for sale on there.

Brianmoooore is the expert on this (as usual!) and may be able to recommend some other places.

[6inline]

Go for it! I'm LPG converted since 1990 - The conversion has to be done properly though. There are threads about it if you do the search and afaik Brianmooore is the man who can give you the best advice on this

[dazleeds]

deffo been thinking about this for a longtime now
34 a litre at my local morrisons and same at local lpg garage

heres a question or two

can ya run lpg with a turbo??

can ya run it with nos?

do they kits have any limitations with regard to bhp??

noticed a kit on link said upto 190 bhp

[klu99apm]

can ya run lpg with a turbo??

can ya run it with nos?

do they kits have any limitations with regard to bhp??

noticed a kit on link said upto 190 bhp

I think the power restriction kits quote is based on the size of the vaporiser the kit comes with - I've seen vaporisers rated for upto 350 bhp so shouldn't be a problem.

Hopefully Brianmooore will see this and answer the rest of the questions (and correct me if I'm wrong!)

[nickso]

I converted my 325 touring to LPG nearly 12 months ago and its great. I get around 24mpg and fill up at Morrisons supermarket near me for 39.9 pence per litre. There is a very slight loss of performance but if you really want all the performance you can switch over to petrol.

I converted my car myself for £500 with all brand new kit. If you are semi competent mechanic then its easy to do yourself -it only took me a few days.

It may devalue the originality of the car to some people, but there'll be others, like me, who want 325 performance with 316 running costs.

£1500 sounds a bit expensive to me - would have thought you could get it done cheaper than that if you don't fancy tackling it yourself.

Good luck - I thoroughly recommend it!

what did you do regarding your insurance? most insurers seem to be unhappy unless you have an LPGA installers certificate.

its been putting me off doing mine myself and im not paying for someone to do it

[klu99apm]

When I told my insurance company (Swiftcover) they just made a note of it and that was it.

I'm getting a safety check done on my install next Wednesday by an LPGA installer and the certificate that will hopefully produce should satisfy most insurers I'm lead to believe.

[320Touring]

I converted my 325 touring to LPG nearly 12 months ago and its great. I get around 24mpg and fill up at Morrisons supermarket near me for 39.9 pence per litre. There is a very slight loss of performance but if you really want all the performance you can switch over to petrol.

I converted my car myself for £500 with all brand new kit. If you are semi competent mechanic then its easy to do yourself -it only took me a few days.

It may devalue the originality of the car to some people, but there'll be others, like me, who want 325 performance with 316 running costs.

£1500 sounds a bit expensive to me - would have thought you could get it done cheaper than that if you don't fancy tackling it yourself.

Good luck - I thoroughly recommend it!

what did you do regarding your insurance? most insurers seem to be unhappy unless you have an LPGA installers certificate.

its been putting me off doing mine myself and im not paying for someone to do it

I reckon we should have a scottish LPG fitting meet

[old_skool]

Never been involved in vehicle LPG conversions. The LPG conversions I get involved in are a different matter. If you wanted to find out more about carrying out the conversion yourself, I would imagine contacting the LPGA would be a good start.

Is there a legal requirement for LPG installations to be carried out by a registered business Cue Brian.....

[nickso]

Never been involved in vehicle LPG conversions. The LPG conversions I get involved in are a different matter. If you wanted to find out more about carrying out the conversion yourself, I would imagine contacting the LPGA would be a good start.

Is there a legal requirement for LPG installations to be carried out by a registered business Cue Brian.....

the thing is im a registered gas installer with an lpg ticket. as far as i know that means absolutely nothing to an insurer who wouldnt care if i invented lpg car equipment. if i dont have a lpga ticket they dont like it...or at least the ones i checked with.

i had a quick phone round some lpga installers and for obvious reasons they were never going to sign off my install and give me a certificate.

klu99apm....who is signing your install off?

[klu99apm]

The safety check I'm getting done isn't going to be a certificate of installation obviously, just a safety certificate to prove its all compliant with the COP 11 regs etc. Most LPGA installers do this service I believe.

I don't know whether this will be a useful bit of paper or not as my insurer never cared in the past and hopefully won't when I renew next month. I'm getting it done more for my piece of mind (bit late though as I've done over 10,000 miles with the conversion and it hasn't blown up yet). In those 10,000 miles I just worked out that i've saved roughly £800 - more than the cost of the install.

I'll know more next wednesday (assuming it passes ) , and I'll let you know how I get on.

Hopefully Brian or somebody else can confirm (or otherwise!) about the use of this safety check and difficulties or otherwise with insuring a LPG'd vehicle.

[nickso]

The safety check I'm getting done isn't going to be a certificate of installation obviously, just a safety certificate to prove its all compliant with the COP 11 regs etc. Most LPGA installers do this service I believe.

I don't know whether this will be a useful bit of paper or not as my insurer never cared in the past and hopefully won't when I renew next month. I'm getting it done more for my piece of mind (bit late though as I've done over 10,000 miles with the conversion and it hasn't blown up yet). In those 10,000 miles I just worked out that i've saved roughly £800 - more than the cost of the install.

I'll know more next wednesday (assuming it passes ) , and I'll let you know how I get on.

Hopefully Brian or somebody else can confirm (or otherwise!) about the use of this safety check and difficulties or otherwise with insuring a LPG'd vehicle.

cool....let us know cos im getting interested again

[Brianmoooore]

See my name keeps coming up in this thread!
No requirement at all for the installation to be done by a LPGA registered installer, and using one is no guarantee of a quality install.
The problem is that installations in this country are traditionally vastly overpriced (as is the LPG at BP), and the LPGA have devoted a lot of time and energy to a scare campaign aimed at insurers, in an attempt to keep the golden goose alive and well.
They've had considerable success in this, but there are still several insurance companies around who aren't interested in who did the conversion, and plenty more who will accept DIY conversions that are later certified by a LPGA registered person. Quite often the kit suppliers will do this for about £50.
If you go the DIY route, then make sure everything conforms to the revised version of COP11. Nothing complicated about it, and mostly common sense. Main thing is don't take short cuts!
You can run LPG with a turbo, but it complicates things a bit. You can take advantage of the higher octane rating of LPG though.
Most "ordinary" vapourisers have a flow limit of about 190 bhp (plenty for any standard E30 engine), but bigger ones are available.
There are two different types of LPG system around. The cheapest uses a venturi to draw in the gas and is quite sufficient for use with an E30, especially if you add a lambda sensor controlled gas valve.
You will get a small (unnoticeable) reduction in power (mainly because of the venturi) and about a 20% reduction in MPG, since LPG contains 20% less energy per litre than petrol (but the same by weight.)
The more expensive systems use gas vapour injection and are necessary on engines wit fragile plastic inlet manifolds (venturi systems fill the inlet manifold with explosive mixture, just like old carb engines did, and under certain rare circumstances this can explode). Correctly set up, there should be no power loss at all with these systems.
If you do a lot of short journeys with a cold engine you may get considerably better than a 20% MPG reduction, since LPG does not require cold enrichment like petrol does.
Your cylinder bores will last twice as long on LPG, and the engine oil will remain free from contamination by the nasties that petrol produces.

[old_skool]

In which case, what kit is considered the best for a diy install and what would it cost?

[Brianmoooore]

For a venturi system, the OMVL R90E vapouriser was always reckoned to be the best, but there are plenty of other suitable ones around. AEG Leonardo or Millenium ECU and lambda controller is good, and most tanks are from Poland, and made by Stako.
Avoid Voltran stuff.
There are a number of Polish migrants (Poland is big on LPG) setting up as converters over here at the moment, charging Polish prices to get into the market.

[old_skool]

Hmm..

Is there any way a complete kit including all of the required components could be specified and sourced to take the guess work out of the job specific to an e30 for instance?

[j555boy]

so whats a good price for a good install and certificate, and whats the best kit for a mtech 1 1986 325i sport (brainmoooore)?

cheers jamie

going to get it done after xmas!!!

anyone know any good installers in the south west?

[Brianmoooore]

£1000 tops I would say for a professional venturi system.
Don't know if they are any good, but there's a Polish firm set up in Plymouth I think. Seen adverts from them, but can't think where.
Most of the DIY installers have been listed already in the thread. Was lpgkitsdirect mentioned? There is a stalled thread in the group buy section.

[FBF]

my 2 cents...

it'll add value for certain. id buy a car with lpg over one that hadnt every single time.

[Brianmoooore]

my 2 cents...

it'll add value for certain. id buy a car with lpg over one that hadnt every single time.

Strangely enough it doesn't add much value. The LPGA have done such a good job with their ridiculous scare campaign (some of it in conjuction with Birmingham Trading Standards, IIRC), that they've frightened off the general public as well!

[Cabrio]

Hi...other option if not too certain of doing all the fitting, although can use single point injection on the E30 is to fit the major components yourself, then have an experienced person finish off.

You do the work under the car, running the copper gas pipe...follow line of fuel pipe....fit Stako tank in wheel well...accept that no spare or then need to carry spare in boot...fit vaporiser facing N-S ideally, drill hole for filler ...so then over half the work done....worth a try

Supplier will depend on location but they mail order...only got experience of one co mentioned and they were helpful with advice if needed

[Royalratch]

Do they have to fit a second filler pipe? If so, can it be hidden out of view?

[Cabrio]

If done according to regs the right place on an E30 would be in the rear wing at similar height to petrol filler BUT some installers fit in the bumper but difficult with most E30s and not a good place in an accident....have seen a friend who had a W113 SL and kept filler in boot but again should not pass LPGSA regs...choice is yours if you do diy...but need to be aware

[Brianmoooore]

There is no problem with the filler being involved in an accident. There is a one way valve at the point of entry to the tank, and in the event of the filler being destroyed, the only gas that will escape is that in the (8mm) pipe between the filler and tank.
There is also an excess flow/one way valve on the outlet of the tank, which means that even if the whole tank was torn from the car (tank is fitted to withstand 30g, IIRC) there would still be no escape of gas!
Tow bars are often used as a gas filler point, and mine was originally fitted here, but I got fed up with crouching in the mud, and fitted it just behind the petrol filler, so that the rear of the filler is braced against the seam in the wheel arch inside the car.

Filler in the boot is most definitely NOT a good idea. Propane is heavier than air, and a leak from the gas pump would fill the boot with an explosive mixture.
For the same reason LPG cars should be kept away from unventilated inspection pits, and are banned from some underground car parks.

[TouringMatt]

And not allowed on the channel tunnel IIRC?

[Brianmoooore]

And not allowed on the channel tunnel IIRC?

True, but it's an insurance issue not a safety issue.
Apparently the tunnel is only insured for the passage of vehicles with certain specified fuel types, and LPG was omitted from the list.
They've been stating that they are going to correct this for some time, but don't hold your breath.
They let caravans through, though, with similar amounts of LPG on board stored in containers with no safety measures whatsoever.
There's a tunnel in Rouen, though, which bans LPG cars. Drove past loads of signs banning it on the approaches before I drove through (with my LPG powered touring).

[exup]

I had a skoda oct turbo runing on a landi renzo multipoint system , it was brill, i had it chipped up to 210bhp , no prblems at all , 55 k mile .
shaim it was writern off, i have got another and refitted the system but got a problem finishing the wirering as the ecu are different , but i am 100 sold on LPG , I BELIEVE HIGHER PERFORMANCE OR TURBOS NEED THE BETTER METTERING OF MULTI POINT OR THE NEW SEQUENTICAL SYSTEMS , but a std 325 should be fine on a single point single

[tim_s]

Hey guys,
jus seen this thread. I'm working on a sequential romano system for my 2.1 IS. Where have people ran the pipe up the car, as iirc it must stay 25cm away from the exhaust? I have a donut tank in the spare wheel well and ideally I want it to come into the passenger side of the engine bay. May look at this this weekend. I also need a proper wiring diagram, instrctions, lead and software for a romano ECU, so any pointers etc greatly appreciated.
The fitting so far has been pretty straightforward, here's a quick pic of the bay:

Have done a fair bit of work since then, mainly tidying up the LPG injectors on the rail, have half wired in the ECU too and its got power ok and the changeover switch etc is working.

[Brianmoooore]

I've run the gas line alongside the petrol and brake lines under the car and then up to a filter/valve mounted right where the big "a" is on the suspension turret.

[tim_s]

cheers brian. did mine very similarly in the end today, mounted the valve by the fuel filter (318is), ran the line alongside the other pipework. could do with some better clips really but its good enough. just ECU stuff to go now.

[glenbat]

Please dont think I'm stirring things up but thought I'd add my tuppence worth....

The only experience I've had with LPG converted cars is during training with Herts Fire and Rescue. If a vehicle is known to be LPG converted and is ablaze, we have to maintain a distance of 500 metres (Yes you did read that right!) The training material we've seen involved a car alight in the middle of a field, test coniditions etc and when the valve began exhausting, the pulses became more frequent (shown as bursts of flames similar to a flame thrower) and when the tank eventually went up, it blew the camera and camera man right over. Remember this was in the middle of a field. Same applies if the vehicle is in a car park, or motorway pile up, 500 metres.

Im fortunate enough to walk to work, and town and probably only cover 50 miles a week so LPG would never been an advantage to me, and the general feeling among the Fire Service is the Government was CRAZY to allow it to be used. All i ask is if you have young kids that you strap into the back of the car, dont go LPG.

Like i said I'm not lecturing (although it may seem like i am ), its just with my limited experience of LPG I am against it as a non essential fuel.
Saying that thousands of people are using it so each to their own

Good luck

[Brianmoooore]

A correctly installed LPG tank just should not explode. It should vent completely in controlled bursts. Wouldn't like to be in line with those bursts, but by the time things are hot enough for that it will have long since ceased to be of any concern to any occupants of the vehicle.
IIRC, the LPGA themselves have been involved in some set up stunts with Birmingham trading Standards, involving setting fire to vehicles with doctored safety valves, as part of their "frighten the insurance companies into insuring golden goose converted vehicles only" campaign.
Also bear in mind that there most likely wouldn't be vehicles on fire if it wasn't for vehicles driving around with 60 litres of highly inflammable unleaded in plastic containers strapped to their cars.
LPG tanks are highly unlikely to rupture or leak in a crash. Any escaping vapour will be at a temperature of -100 degrees Celsius or so, and will cool components that could ignite petrol (like hot exhaust manifolds) and will rapidly blow away from the accident scene and disburse, not sit around you like a lake!