ROLLING ROAD RESULT!!!

[Dan318-is]

well, I'll agree that the arguments about this are long (and painful).
But torque is where its at.

All blingsta needs to do is hold that torque higher up the revs and he'll have an impressive power figure!

so why do f1 cars have 900 bhp and about 250 lb ft of torque?

you need both power and torque for a well performing engine

Because they rev out to 20k. Power = torque x revs
If they could add another 20 lb ft they'd have even more power up there.
I'm not saying power isn't important. Its just that people get obsessed by the power output and disregard the torque.

Power is dependant on torque AND revs, not just revs. If your engine is reving more quickly, itis producing torque faster. So if you have low torque, the overall power will be less; so its not fully dependant on torque, but is somewhat.

[Morat]

yes, that's what I said.

[march109]

The rotational analogues of force, mass, and acceleration are torque

mathmatically speaking that is.

torque is a measure of the acceleration of a mass given a certain amount of power. So technically I was correct, and incorrect, since power is also needed.

so technically a 1kg mass with 1hp force acting upon it accelerating at 1m/s^2 has twice as much torque than a 1kg mass with a 2hp force accelerating at the same rate. Yet which is clearly more efficient at accelerating?

Its the effiecient use of the power available to create a rotational force. F1 cars have low torque because they rev too high to produce 'good' torque but the application of HUGE ammounts of power make up for the lack of torque making they're acceleration highly inefficient but still blistering. Once the initial movement is acheived momentum overcomes some lack of torque.

[Morat]

Well noone is going to doubt that an F1 car accelerates quickly

Unfortunately we don't have access to their levels of technology, and even if we did they're working within some very restrictive rules on displacement and induction. WE can up the displacement or use Forced Induction which gives us a lot more scope for increasing the output at _sane_ revs. The F1 boys can make their engines breath as efficiently as possible, reduce the losses as much as they can - and then their only option is to rev the tits off it This of course leads to the high power/low torque as described above. 250 lb ft from a N/A 2.5l engine sounds pretty impressive to me...

Anyway, to return to somewhere vaguely near the topic - all this is born out in blingstas results. It appears that his turbo setup gives nice boost up the rev range then becomes too restrictive at the top end. This means his torque figures are impressive but his top end power isn't. This is to be expected because his engine doesn't get to produce good torque at high revs which would give the impressive power figure that he was hoping for. So, best of luck mate - once you've got that turbo (or its replacement) pumping high enough to boost your engine up to the redline you'll get the power figure you were after. In the meantime, your torque figures will continue to fool your arse dyno

[march109]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

And back to Blingsta's engine - I think thats impressive especially as the turbo comes in so low down. Did someone mention no lag?

I wouldn't be too upset if I were you

[blingsta]

So what exhaust manifold have you got Erel?

And what's the system after that too?

I'm quite gutted for you about that mate, although are those corrected figures or at the wheel because 195bhp at the wheels is quite a lot!

The manifold is a std m20 flipped manifold with adaptor for t3 turbo.. the rest is all stainless.. in regards if it's 194bhp at the wheels, i dont know about that!!!

[Morat]

Understanding the relationship between torque, power and engine speed is vital in automotive engineering, concerned as it is with transmitting power from the engine through the drive train to the wheels. Typically power is a function of torque and engine speed. The gearing of the drive train must be chosen appropriately to make the most of the motor's torque characteristics.

I read it first!

[blingsta]

Lets not compare F1 cars or any other to mine please guys...

I suppose 1 of the reasons im a little dissapointed is due to the fact that before i turbo'd the car i took it for another power run as standard,
results were as follows= BHP- 175 TORQUE- 170
that was only with a power boost valve and my 6 branch alpina.. and by turboing, its increased bhp by 20 but the torque has shot up by 50lb.. so is the answer going to be, free flowing exhaust with less back pressure and a bigger turbo?????

[jkarran]

you are incorrect, and fighting about it can become a very lengthy discussion

Not looking for a fight Gunni but am intrigued... which part of my post do you consider incorrect and why? We can get into the maths if need be.

Just re-read my post and I admit, this bit is wrong:

"(or more correctly, the linear force applied to the road at the tyre contact patch as a result of the engine torque multiplied through the gearbox). "

It's the reaction to that force that produces the acceleration. Semantics.

jk

[Ant]

I suppose 1 of the reasons im a little dissapointed is due to the fact that before i turbo'd the car i took it for another power run as standard,
results were as follows= BHP- 175 TORQUE- 170
that was only with a power boost valve and my 6 branch alpina.. and by turboing, its increased bhp by 20 but the torque has shot up by 50lb.

Same dyno Erel ? if not the results must not be used for direct comparison.

Still dwelling on the negative dude ?? I'll get fozzy to give you a call

[blingsta]

no not same one mate, but will figures be that different? Anyway, whats next on the to do list for me Ant? im getting a bit greedy now

[Ant]

whats next on the to do list for me Ant

more £Â£Ã‚£ to spend I'm afraid mate.

you want it costed up ?

[march109]

no not same one mate, but will figures be that different? Anyone, whats next on the to do list for me Ant? im getting a bit greedy now

They can be vastly different, due to the various different types of algorythms for calculating the power. A correction algorithm is used by all RR's but everyone seems to use a different one, comparisons should only be made when the runs are done on the same rollers.

[blingsta]

whats next on the to do list for me Ant

more £Â£Ã‚£ to spend I'm afraid mate.

you want it costed up ?

please matey, what you thinking needs to be done?

[Ant]

Hybrid, bigger hot and coldsides, bigger bore downpipe and zaust, and new oil feed assy

[blingsta]

go for it dude, let me know what the damage is gonna be, apart from the zaust as i have someone in mind to do that for me mate, and oil feed you was gonna sort me out with anyway!

so is it basically a bigger turbo and new exhaust system i need? thats the long and short of it, oh and more mapping time after that?

[Morat]

For now

[ric325i]

blingsta, if its 194bhp at the wheels then its big smiles my good man!

and if the car performs like you want it too and feels good then forget the figures and go for another blast

although.........if the exhaust will let it flow and give you better power! DO IT!!!

good results man!

[blingsta]

cheers for all the comments guys..

[blingsta]

[quote="ric325i"]blingsta, if its 194bhp at the wheels then its big smiles my good man!

Have spoken to R/R and its the power at the fly wheel.. but saying that, ive only just noticed that my torque is the same as what Ant's was and his bhp was 220 !!

Anyways, im over it now, just need to spend more dosh to make me smile that little bit more.... Have you got any bigger turbo's hiding anywhere Ant???

[M5pilot]

If your already getting 220 lb/ft torque with the amount of money you have spent then you should be happy.

Not alot of 2.7's can touch 220 lb/ft torque and then ones that have had alot of money thrown at them.

Once the small things that need to be done are sorted you should see a much better result.

Sal

[Gouki]

220lb ft is pretty good mate, if it performs well on the road so why go further? And where do you draw the line to stop?

[Ant]

220lb ft is pretty good mate, if it performs well on the road so why go further? And where do you draw the line to stop?

I like that mature approach Rich, kudos to you dude

[blingsta]

220lb ft is pretty good mate, if it performs well on the road so why go further? And where do you draw the line to stop?

Very true mate, very true! just minor mods in mind at the moment, such as free flow single 3" exhaust and maybe a slightly bigger turbo.. then i'll call it quits..

[fuzzy]

220lb ft is pretty good mate, if it performs well on the road so why go further? And where do you draw the line to stop?

Very true mate, very true! just minor mods in mind at the moment, such as free flow single 3" exhaust and maybe a slightly bigger turbo.. then i'll call it quits..

heard that one before,infact im sure ive said it a couple of times,you will not call it quits.you will carry on spending silly amounts of money in the quest for more power.i can guarantee it

[dips346]

220lb ft is pretty good mate, if it performs well on the road so why go further? And where do you draw the line to stop?

LINE !!! what is that?

[dazleeds]

220lb ft is pretty good mate, if it performs well on the road so why go further? And where do you draw the line to stop?

LINE !!! what is that?

certainly not the line i had in mind

[march109]

220lb ft is pretty good mate, if it performs well on the road so why go further? And where do you draw the line to stop?

LINE !!! what is that?

That'll be when your car blows then? Know what you mean though, when is enough is enough? If you can improve it why not?

[fuzzy]

220lb ft is pretty good mate, if it performs well on the road so why go further? And where do you draw the line to stop?

LINE !!! what is that?

its something that you might have on a saturday night out,thats the only line i can think off

[blingsta]

Naah guys, will definately leave it as exhaust and 1 stage up turbo.... then it will be end of project.. and i will allow you to quote me on that, i dont want to push it to the unreliability point ! i think if i can push 250bhp out of her, that will be nice!

[dazleeds]

Naah guys, will definately leave it as exhaust and 1 stage up turbo.... then it will be end of project.. and i will allow you to quote me on that, i dont want to push it to the unreliability point ! i think if i can push 350bhp out of her, that will be nice!